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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: sudly]
    #22953263 -

sudly said:
Lakefingers said:
There's a god here at the forum who demands eternal praise and its name is Suffering.


From the viewpoint that humans are mechanical organisms it's fair to say that we are essentially sacks of meat filled with little batteries called nerves.

Suffering exists because nerves in your body send or relay electrical signals through electrochemical action potentials or in other words, nerve signals.

The intensity of an individuals physical suffering is governed by the frequency of action potentials between their neural synapses.

The threshold for a neuron to create action potentials differs because of individual pain thresholds in nocicepetor nerves.


Suffering is no god, it is merely the bi product of electrical action potential movements throughout the human nervous system and brain.

Through modern science we know that we are the result of billions of years of DNA evolution and inheritance.

"You're only alive because billions of your ancestors got laid and had kids."

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/biology/actpot.html



Dammit sudly. How do you even get out of bed in the morning living in this world? This is as depressing as hell. I agree that electrical fields are responsible for most likely every thing in existence but this whole "Sack of meat" thing just makes me sad. You never feel like what you do on earth may have a bigger meaning than we think? Do you really see no difference between human beings and every other living organism? Have you ever witnessed anything in nature that can do any of the stuff that humans do? Wheres the hope in your purely chance existence? Plus there are soooooo many things that are just complete unknowns. Why do all animals sleep? Why are humans so amazing? Whats the deal with what DMT does to me every single time? Whats causing the electricity to begin with? Why haven't we found a single instance of organic life evolving in nature? When did humans make the leap from monkeys to Egyptians? Why do I even wonder these things?

C'mon sudly. You gotta have more. You have an "imagination" right? Well why the fuck do you have one? Agggghhhhh....


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953553 -

I accept that there's black and white in every day.

Call it what you want the essence of the answer is true.
We're fleshy organisms wearing suits of skin that have been evolving over millions of years to maintain internal moisture whilst on land. 

Quote:
"You never feel like what you do on earth may have a bigger meaning than we think?"


Following the concept that existence precedes essence from existential philosophy the idea is to create your own meanings and happiness in life, we find the things we value and create meanings for them, meanings are not inherent they are subjective.

There does seem to be one objective purpose of life though and it is that of DNA to spread.

Quote:
"Do you really see no difference between human beings and every other living organism?"


I see biological and homologous differences between species over hundreds of millions of years but even the nervous systems of plants are similar to us.
Venus fly traps can count and remember too. All organisms on life share common DNA ancestry.

Quote:
“The Venus flytrap, can count how often it has been touched by an insect visiting its capture organ in order to trap and consume the animal prey,”
http://www.sci-news.com/biology/carnivorous-venus-flytraps-can-count-03586.html


Quote:
" Have you ever witnessed anything in nature that can do any of the stuff that humans do?"


There are plenty of service animals aiding humans with their endeavors.
Take for example dogs that can smell cancers or dolphins that can detect and plant mines for the Navy.
Not to mention seeing eye dogs that are taught to practice behaviours of intelligent disobedience. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/whales/etc/navycron.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_cancer_detection
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_disobedience

Quote:
"Wheres the hope in your purely chance existence?"


In subjective perspectives.

Quote:
" Why do all animals sleep?"


My guess is for the same reason scorpions use energy to replenish their venom. When energy or supplies are used it's good to restore them in order to be used again.

Quote:
"Why are humans so amazing?"


We're not, we simply have different capabilities in comparison to other animals because of the differences in our DNA make up and position on the web of evolution. 
We can't sense electricity like a shark, see from kilometres away like a Hawk or see infrared lights like a mantis shrimp.

Sometimes there is no best.

DMT is a strong drug that is an antagonist to specific receptor nodes on your neurons. It increases the frequency and velocity of the action potentials your experience and changes you perceptions of the difference between feeling and thought.

Evolution takes a lot of time but there are ways to speed through generations with the short life spans of bacteria. There is an ongoing 21 year experiment on Ecoli bacteria that shows evolution in real time through tens of thousands of generations.
http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/

Early hominids became Egyptians not monkeys.


I've always struggled to read fiction novels but I can imagine non-fiction okay.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: sudly]
    #22953585 -

Nice posting. Delicious thoughts.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953587 -

A lot of feelings are wrong.
You can't feel the speed of light.
"Think about the world and feel about your heart." - Penn Jillette.


Another thing an animal has done that humans do was done by Alex the parrot.
Quote:

"He could describe a key as a key no matter what its size or color, and could determine how the key was different from others. Looking at a mirror, he said "what color", and learned "grey" after being told "grey" six times. This either made him the first and only non-human animal to have ever asked an existential question"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (02/27/16 09:39 PM)

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953625 -

Humans are animals just like other animals. Each animal has attributes that make it unique, same for homosapiens.

Basic functions are that of eating other living things by tearing them into chunks, chewing them into pulp and then digesting them and then excreting the mess not used for host life functions to support the growth of other life forms. We create compost. Then if successful we reproduce and die just like any bug or worm or other living thing.

That's what we can be pretty sure of. The rest is mostly unsubstantiated fantasy from what I can tell.  You will soon break down and die to be quickly consumed and forgotten like the billions of other humans who have done the same but all thought of themselves as special and not animal like. :shrug:

It's a drag but I see no reason to be certain of anything else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22953638 -

Gave me a good chuckle because it's so scary and real.

I think the fight against fantasy thinking may be a uphill battle, especially for those who are comfortable.

Edited by Jaegar (02/27/16 09:46 PM)

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jaegar]
    #22953655 -

Just think of all the living things animal and plant that you have ripped into shreds, chewed to a pulp and then shat out. Think of what a pile of compost that would make over a lifetime.  Then multiply it by billions and billions. Pretty ugly and pretty impressive.  We feed the earth with our waste and we're damn good at it. :imspecial:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/27/16 09:46 PM)

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22953668 -

Yeh I'm guessing my own excretement over a lifetime is in the tons. And that's not including my hot air.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Jaegar]
    #22953681 -

tons of tons by my age.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22953864 -

I still love both of you. If only I could show you my world.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953880 -

I see your world. You post on it constantly. It's a good one. I'm very happy for you.  I have good things in my world too. You should see it sometime.  But that doesn't change my beliefs about what we are.  I use logic and science mostly to the best of my ability to comprehend what is going on. These are my conclusions based on the evidence I see every day and every minute.  I'm not trying to make it into something I wish it was.  I just report what I see. :shrug:

I could be totally wrong. How many here do you think would admit to that? Could you?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/27/16 11:09 PM)

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953918 -

deezdelta said:
I still love both of you. If only I could show you my world.


Your world is nothing but lies. Humans are no more than sacks of meat that live and die.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22953929 -

I can't help it. I kind of like you. We think a lot alike in ways.  You're just more blunt. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Icelander]
    #22953968 -

Icelander said:
I see your world. You post on it constantly. It's a good one. I'm very happy for you.  I have good things in my world too. You should see it sometime.  But that doesn't change my beliefs about what we are.  I use logic and science mostly to the best of my ability to comprehend what is going on. These are my conclusions based on the evidence I see every day and every minute.  I'm not trying to make it into something I wish it was.  I just report what I see. :shrug:

I could be totally wrong. How many here do you think would admit to that? Could you?


My whole life philosophy revolves around the fact that I am most certainly wrong at all times. So yes, Im always wrong. But, I usually got about 20 ideas going at once so it's very easy for me to remember that I actually don't know much of anything at all. Sure, I entertain and explore all sorts of crazy ideas but honestly, I don't know that the civil war really happened or that Hitler was a thing. I admit wide openly that I am all about the techne. I just reason as I go and never assume anything as true except for those things that I have verified on my own in reality. Fire burns when I touch it, this I know(remember:-). The revolutionary war:shrug: Christopher Columbus:shrug: Moon landings:shrug: Evolutionary theory:shrug:.

All I can do is gather as much information from every type of source possible and then speculate inductively. I do have many ideas but I really don't know much. Thats why I do math and write my own stuff. These are things I know. Ive taken very high level physics classes, most of my friends are research scientists and professors and I know several biologists as well. One thing I can tell you is that they don't know anything either. :shrug:

Thats why I'm free to explore all possibilities and ideas. I'll talk about brain chemistry and all that stuff like crazy. My worry comes from the times when scientific claims are asserted and Im left with a suspicion that these claims have not been verified in reality by the ones asserting the claims.

Plus I just want to talk to you guys more.:heart:


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22953993 -

Thanatos10 said:
deezdelta said:
I still love both of you. If only I could show you my world.


Your world is nothing but lies. Humans are no more than sacks of meat that live and die.


Well now that you put it that way it really makes sense. Another job well done sunshine.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22953996 -

I just used a little inductive reasoning myself. I'm starting to expand on an idea that south Florida must be some kind of hell. Thanks for the information. From now on I will exercise caution if I ever end up having to go there.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22954001 -

Thanatos10 said:
deezdelta said:
I still love both of you. If only I could show you my world.


Your world is nothing but lies. Humans are no more than sacks of meat that live and die.


This guy gets it.
Perception of meaning is subjective and we are the result of evolution.
Don't forget that we are reabsorbed into the cycle of nutrients in nature when we die. We go back to what made us in the first place, nature.

Also, the sun will expand and engulf the Earth in a few billion years.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: deezdelta]
    #22954002 -

They pretty much have been. Look around and you won't find meaning or purpose to life. It just is. Humans like to give themselves an inflated sense of importance in the universe. But the thing is all our ideas, spiritualities, and accomplishments don't count for shit. The world could explode tomorrow and it wouldn't change a bit of the universe.

We are are just flesh bags that live and die. How we spend our lives between those points doesn't matter.

Also I doubt everything you have claimed in your story. If you knew that many people, and researched as much as you claim, you would know that simple fact.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22954098 -

Well Mr Sudly, since you mentioned the "feeling" of the speed of light and threw in some dimensions of the sun, Im gonna give you an interesting arithmetic insight into both of them. Now you showed us the suns diameter in kilometers but I'll be using miles.

First off, lets post some figures from NASA:

Average Distance:                                           
Earth to Sun = 92960000 mi  =(ES)D       
Earth to Moon = 238,900 mi  =(EM)D
E(Sun/Moon) = 390 mi            =(S/M)E

Circumference:
Sun = 2,713,406 mi                =(SC)
Moon = 6,786 mi                    =(MC)
C(Sun/Moon) = 399.9 mi        =(S/M)C

Diameter/Radius:
Sun Diameter= 864,938 mi    Sun Radius = 432,469 mi                        SD    SR
Moon = Diameter 2160 mi      Moon Radius = 1080 mi                          MD  MR

Now were going to use a little number theory, linear algebra and the lost art of measure called Gematria. What we will do is take the ratio (SD/MR) and multiply by 1/2. Then we will take the order of magnitude of our result and factor it from SD and  MD. The reason for analyzing this 2x2 system this way is hard to explain but it has to do with a determinate so just enjoy the results.

Recall that the (S/M)E distance is very close to the (S/M)C. Were going to round them to 400 since there not exact anyways. So (S/M)E ~  (S/M)C ~ 400

Now our ratio (SD/MR)div2 =( 864,938/1080)/2 = 800/2 = 400. Holy Shit. 400 is popular right now.(this is very significant but we're skipping it)

Ok, now our Gematria! 400 is in the 1e^2 orders of magnitude. So now SD = 864 and MD = 216.

Alright, first off notice how 864 + 216 = 1080 = MR. Pretty cool huh. But theres more.

Notice how SD=864 is 4(MD=216). Weird right? Well what if we found the number between the two.

Lets see 864/2 = 216*2 = 432... What the Fuck!! Thats the Factored Sun Radius!!

Well since this is a 2x2 system why don't we square this result and see what happens!

Lets see, (432)(432) = 186,624...  Wait, whats the Speed of light in miles per second again? Oh yea, 186,282mi/s

Pretty close huh?

So heres my conclusion, either NASA is full of shit or is our solar system very, very symmetrical and we don know shit about anything. I don't know, do you? Could our random meat baggery be responsible? I really couldn't tell you. I just find the truth in the math.

Also, 432 is how many cycles per second are in the natural key of A as found by Pythagoras. Also theres a lot more special things about all these numbers but this is good for now.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: How do you deal with YOUR suffering? *DELETED* [Re: sudly]
    #22954261 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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