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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19386792 -

If that were the case she would probably be plugging a specific manufacturer a whole lot.

Seems to me that the efficiency vs initial price balance changes a lot depending on how much power costs where you are, and that appears to vary quite a bit in different parts of the world. If electricity is pretty cheap then it takes longer to break even on the purchase of an expensive but efficient lighting system. If you have a "smart" power meter then you can increase your effective efficiency by quite a bit just by scheduling your lights to run overnight. In my situation electricity is included in my rent so I just have to guess at a rough ceiling of what I can get away with without my landlord getting annoyed. Adding a lot more wattage is just not an option. More efficient lighting would mean I could light more plants over the winter.

As others have said, waste heat can also be a bonus depending on your situation. I have T8s mounted under plywood shelves, and while they're running they heat the shelves above. That seems to encourage the mature ones to flower. It's not cost effective from a standpoint of heating the whole house, but it does put the heat right where it's needed for the plants. Over the summer when waste heat would be a problem, I'm not running the lights anyway because the plants are outside.

Long term the most efficient lighting system wins out as long as it continues running past the point where it has "paid off," but that may be quite a while with an expensive light and very cheap power. If prices have been coming down for years and that trend appears likely to continue, it may make sense to hold out longer.

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
    #19386809 -

psi said:
If that were the case she would probably be plugging a specific manufacturer a whole lot.


She'd be called out pretty quickly if she did that.  The best type of shill is the subtle shill and linking her blog in all of her posts is better than directly naming a manufacturer repeatedly.  I'm sure she gets paid for her blog so she's likely profiting from advertising LED one way or another.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19386872 -

IIRC she has said in the past that people do sponsor her with free equipment. I can't think of any specific examples where she plugged a certain manufacturer on the blog though, and there don't appear to be any ads through google or anything either. If I made LED fixtures and was keeping someone on the payroll to shill for me, I think I'd at least want my specific brand mentioned.

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
    #19386927 -

It's the only explanation many of us can come up with for why she endorses LED so heavily, despite hard science and data showing it isn't quite optimal for growing yet (not to mention grow pictures are worth a thousand words).  They're great if you're looking for a cheap and energy efficient way to light up your house though.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19386932 -

Auto-Summary
The author shares their personal experience with LED lighting for growing ornamental cacti and small plants in a small grow room. They believe LED is not suitable for large areas or tall plants, and may not be the best choice for everyone. They mention that their living room plants thrive under HPS/MH bulbs, and they only use LED for small plants or small grow rooms. The author criticizes the idea that everyone should switch to LED, and believes that the suitability of LED lighting depends on the specific cultivation needs. They also discuss the uniqueness of different plants and the potential benefits of LED for commercial growers in terms of reduced electricity costs.

Well I don't said it's fact but I said I feel more and more as the time goes by anne trying to lobby people to buy LED from certain companies.

I don't claim this to be fact, just said I feel like it..

Only I know for fact LED is not perfect light for ornament cactus, it's only suitable for small grow room because these light doesn't generate so much of heat. It's not suitable for large area of plants nor tall columars.

I could think only LED for ornamental cacti if I have thousands of € to spend for them, add them to walls around grow room and to the ceiling but there is more effective light tech what will penetrate way more better small foliage and gives effective light meters away from actual bulbs.

However, IF annie purpose is to do grow room as small as possible, then LED is best.. But thinking of using them to light big area of different plants indoors, I don't buy it.

Maybe later when LED tek are improved enough and they're cheaper.

Anne tek are only suitable for certain type of cultivation, it's proven already, but I bet it's not suitable for most of grow rooms/greenhouses whatever people have.

One friend of mine use HPS and grow cannabis, he keep cacti over the winter around cannabis plants in his growing tent. IF I go and say "throw your 600W HPS away and buy hundred of € worth of LED.. He probably just think I'm stupid. Well that is totally different environment also and he use HPS only over winter when sun are shining from very low at horizon.. Most of the time he keep cacti at balcony outdoors, enjoying sun.

There are lots of growers and lots of different grow rooms. Some grow only columnars, some cobulars, some grow cacti for consumption, some grow for ornamental.

It's wrong information to say everyone need to get LED and nothing more.. Some people doesn't use lights at all. Only windowsill sun at winter time and greenhouse over summer.

Anne should say the fact LED is only good for small grow rooms and small plants, they are not for everyone.. I could think if some noob demolish the greenhouse, buy shitloads of LED and then starts to think what is wrong when columars starts to grow slim and only tallest plants are not elongating so bad.

LED are not best choice for all, only for people who want to grow small plants in small grow room.

My "grow room" are living room.. HPS+MH bulbs are above south window, Every plant no matter where they are in the 5x5meter room, they are doing fine and love the light.. Only 150€ investment to have 5x5meter area enough light so every corner of living room where are plants are enjoying.

I have cucumber plant spent winter in living room, meters away from my light source, it blooms and doing fine but since it's winter I need to take flowers away and keep it with very low water and wait it's warm enough I can move the to greenhouse. Also chili plants are love to spent "dormant" in my living room corner, meters away from light source.

I should obtain too much LED lights to make sure I have enough light to 5x5meter living room and therefor make sure every chili and every cucumber and other ornamental plants are satisfied with the light I offer them.

Ofc when summer comes and soon sun shines above horizon, I can slowly start shut down my lights and move most plants to greenhouse and then I don't consume any electricity, in fact my electric bill are smaller than plants under LED because I don't need electricity for nothing at summer time.

Anne seems to purposely confuse few basic things, word dirt sounds disgusting and bad, dirt are not even same than living soil organism. I am not against hydro cultivation I have done it myself with another species of plants. However, plants have been in soil millions of years, if it's bad for plants, how the hell they have survived in the nature anyway?

This tek should be sold to people who do grafts in small room and small plants without caring the appearance of plants, only what matter is production of mass.

One thing more, what really make one strain unique and another not? IMO every peyote grown from seed are different than another seed grown plants. IF this "unique" are only matter of what anne think of plant.. From my perspective, I have seed grown plants, everyone is unique on it's own way.. I know no one have same clone of peyote I have and that makes them unique. OR what is the definition of "unique peyote"? Do anne only have access to declare one from 20k seed grown plants to unique and rest growers doesn't have permission to see their own seed grown plants as unique?

Every peyote are unique on their own way.. I just want to know the real factor what makes anne clones unique and another people clones "common ugly dirt shit peyote what is not grow under LED"?

I see things differently.. If I sow 20k seeds, every seedling are unique because they are not clones, they are from different seed. Ofc there can be very different plant along these all what can be defined as unique on it's chemical properties or appearance but real, the real unique definition are very poor in my mind.

If unique means it's strain what anne have, then unique definition is "peyote from anne"

Everything seems to black and white from anne perpective what I have read the posts.. What define unique? What define best? What define noob?

Are that "noob" the person who dare ask advice from another growers? and "pro" are person who doesn't "need" to ask any kind of advice form anyone...

Maybe some people just want to conversation and same time change their experiences about growing cacti, asking something what should and what should not do does't make anyone noob?

And yet, every "noob" I find out are these who say "hello, I don't know this, I ask from you" ..There is nothing bad to advice people, if information is right.. anne can advice people but only those who ask about LED and peyote grafting to pereskiopsis.. no doubt.

I don't see "noob" is the person who ask about cacti and still have experience of growing cacti and ask things in the meaning to want to chance ideas with another and start a dialog.

And what comes to LED. I have cut off my house lighting from 500W to 40W by using LED to light house, bathroom, kitchen, hall, living room, etc.. Some cheap "white LED" light.. IT's good for that purpose, but IF LED are developed enough, I would say ALL commercial growers would have change their lighting to LED to reduce electric bill because electric consuming eat's profit of business if someone use grow lights.. One good example is commercial cannabis growers who sell their cannabis to legal markets, why they have not change to LED because of cheaper electric bill? maybe because what you save from electric bill, you loose from harvest. But I don't want to mix cannabis anymore to this..

Just saying, why they still use Heat generating electric consuming HPS and not LED? IF LED really are the best, every expert would have done this and cut their electric costs in business but they have not done this.. Isn't what obvious?:shrug:


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/08/14 10:54 AM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19386945 -

SuperD said:
GoOnThen said:
Well done mate you take the prize. :grin:
I grafted a couple of them after the original stock rotted ( Hylocereus )and I was like WTF is going on they was under the same lights as the original and they just kept going up and up. I have since moved them out into the green house to see whether they will fatten up.
I also have another one that has done the same thing but my memory has gone at the moment.
Here is a pic so you know the same could happen but I have noticed the ones I put out in the greenhouse early on have started to pup and fatten a little.
Same deal stock rotted so I grafted all of the pups and now I have a heap of columnar ones. :eek:
Original plant


Cheers
Got


Looks like a healthy echinocereus knippelianus maybe that's what you were trying to think of?  I just saw a pic of s. rauschii grafted on pedro over at SAB and I'll be damned if it doesn't look normal and globular.  Now I'm even more confused.  :lol: Must be mainly a light/nute issue causing the stretch?  I can't imagine what other factors could be involved.


Thats it I couldn't think what it was and I was at work so I couldn't go and look at the tags.
Here is one the stretchy ones



Here is the other sulcorebutia rauschii not as bad as the other one but it did pup alot more. You can see another one in the photo that was grafted at the same time but the stock is selenicereus.


I haven't seen the one at SAB. I will have to go and have a look

Cheers
Got


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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: GoOnThen]
    #19387001 -

Here's a couple of mine, and the last pic is the one I saw at SAB.  That is some crazy growth on the e. knippelianus. :whoah:



--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19387062 -

LED tek is advancing rapidly.
theres a big difference in types and usable quality.

the lophship AX1 , is essentially exceeding my outdoor peres.
so it works for me. web is actually full of LED grows of all types.
its only a mystery to those who dont use them now.

in the last 5 yrs or so, i endorse nothing commercially ,
beyond the technology presented.

i will mention brands of things used if asked.
but i have zero intent to endorse any specific company or brand.

my blog disclaimer specifically says , "we endorse no one."
although i have many private sponsors and benefactors, i ask them not to endorse me publicly, to avoid troll attacks and controversy.

most of my sponsors, seek testing of seeds , not so much equipment
the physics lab, isnt interested in sales, its interested in light feasablity studies .
the aerospace industry, doesnt need me to shill lights.


^we get alot of humor from that.

as far as unique strains?
another thread.
im saving the real bomshell stuff for a specific thread.
youll be shocked.
i have hundreds of pics, of things that will change your views on cacti and lights forever.

sorry guys,
TA is an indy open source grow tek group for educational purposes only..........

psi said:
There are reports elsewhere of lophs that grow in a columnar shape under all conditions,



your right psi, and they do exist,
but its not in the frame of reference for many growers yet.

its one of the things that makes it so difficult to report on, most growers have a limited frame of reference, on a slow growing few plants over a few yrs.
as opposed to my loph manhatten project for the ultra -phora.....


--------------------
:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/08/14 12:00 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19387532 -

Some column lophs are purely got their form due to environmental factors, but what the factor is yet to find out.

As I have said some spanish grow lophs on their own roots, offshooting and flowering plants in 5 years, watering with fungicides every day constantly and temperatures are over +50C.. It's possible.. These lophs are someway cobular and columnar combination because their conditions are like that and fast grown lophs will in fact grow differently.

However, when these sorta columnar and plump up peyote are moved to climate where they are in more cool temperatures and will not watered so often, they shrink, stop growing columnar anymore and otherwise in fact change growth to more flat.

This fact about big peyotes full of water and someway columnar shape and they'r appearance change when they're moved to colder climate have told me one of the european biggest peyote vendor. Said never obtain a patch of big lophs from that guy anymore because in his greenhouse they shrink half of their size. That guy have been grown lophs from 70's, I don't doubt that guy doesn't know what he talking about. Oldest and biggest specimens he have are probably over 100yo plants imported from mexico long time ago when it was legal to collect plants. These plants are still in that guy collection, these plants are not in sale like another plants. As I have said he buy and sell but have started long time ago and produce seeds from different habitat imported peyote.

Because he buy and sell are just the fact demand are bigger than he have time and space to grow peyote from seed, he grow from seed, sell own seed grown lophs and buy small plants and sell plants from range small to big. Only hard grown small but old plants, for ornament.

Afaik some spanish growers doesn't never allow lophs to shrink and then plump up again and so on.. like in their habitat plant does, also they do not keep dormant period at all, just grow fast and it's possible without grafting but there is risk of rotting and molding anyway, also climate should allow that. But the plants grown like that way, plants what never have been got any period of long drought like in their habitat they do, will shrink to very small fast and they're not anymore the size they are buy'd in purpose so sell forwards.

And I don't talk about any smartshop loph dealers who sell them for consumption, I talk about ornamental plant vendor who want to keep lophs in shape, epidermis at good condition and so on, it's money for that guy, they need to be good shape and hard grown because they're in fact money.

But about what I have heard from that guy, if lophs should be in shape and similar to plants in habitat, they should be grown slow to make them worth of money. But first time I heard about these stretched plump up peyote are from that vendor what are one of the biggest european loph vendors around there. Also I heard they are not worth of buy and sell because when they are moved too cool climate and they starts to get dry periods between watering, they turn ugly and not profitable.. But that guy told me the way how they can be grown from seed very fast if you risk them for rot by every day watering with fungicides... Only it needs to make environment "perfect" and that's how you got fast plump columnar style peyote plants.

Sometimes it's genetics will peyote grow columnar or not, but shape can be achieved with certain type of environment.. It's fact. I don't know every step how these spanish growers do it, but one role is fungicide chemicals to prevent rot and mold and one critical factor is very high temperatures, maybe higher than they have in their habitat.. But where to know are peyote appearance caused by environment or light spectrum? Only growers and their own teks know their own ways how to achieve to get these peyote plants.


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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19387723 -

fact is, its a more complex plant,
with dynamic qualities,
than the average grower thinks.

the mere fact my hyper gardens exist,
proves how little we understand them.

my experiments, open up many possibilities.
thats sorta the point.

even simple hydro LED graft threads, open up massive debate.
to truly open up my archives,
would be apocalyptic at this point in time.

but, ya know im gonna do it sooner or later anyway.:thumbup:



^meet one of the horsemen...........

you guys get so excited at the " pre threads",
and ,ya wonder why i am sitting on poms, and x aerophora?


--------------------
:aliendance:

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19387869 -

I've been dying to get my hand on one of these:thumbup:


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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: KBG1977]
    #19388383 -

KBG1977 said:
I've been dying to get my hand on one of these:thumbup:




I'll never forget all the times I've tripped in the past while gazing at my plants in the back garden. The sulcorebutias are really interactive visually.  Those spines on them begin to look like little insects all marching toward the center. :psychsplit:  They look like that even while sober but the effect is enhanced 10-fold while tripping. :lol:


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19388418 -

SuperD said:
KBG1977 said:
I've been dying to get my hand on one of these:thumbup:




I'll never forget all the times I've tripped in the past while gazing at my plants in the back garden. The sulcorebutias are really interactive visually.  Those spines on them begin to look like little insects all marching toward the center. :psychsplit:  They look like that even while sober but the effect is enhanced 10-fold while tripping. :lol:


Alas,I stopped tripping about a decade ago,but weed still makes things look special if you get some good stuff:crazy2:

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: KBG1977]
    #19388436 -

I'm at about the same point, only tripping once a year if that.  Priorities change over time and there just aren't enough hours in the day anymore for me to justify a 12+ hour session.  In fact I've almost completely dropped cannabis too which I thought I'd never do either.  Was going through an oz every month and now I go through maybe a gram a month. :lol: When I do decide to toke up, it's a lot more special that's for damn sure.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19388456 -

SuperD said:
I'm at about the same point, only tripping once a year if that.  Priorities change over time and there just aren't enough hours in the day anymore for me to justify a 12+ hour session.  In fact I've almost completely dropped cannabis too which I thought I'd never do either.  Was going through an oz every month and now I go through maybe a gram a month. :lol: When I do decide to toke up, it's a lot more special that's for damn sure.


I feel ya,I actually quit the herbs,but I started back up:jointsmile:It's the single only thing that I think I'll never be able to stop,totally!

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Re annie grows more lophs than: Bernard Shaw fer sure [Re: KBG1977]
    #19388761 -

hedonism, leaves me aghast.

heres another one to think about....



exact same conditions for almost a decade,
re cloned and re rooted , at least a dozen times in various XHTTL systems , raised here , from seed.

we deliberatly went thru thousands and thousands of seeds,
for unique specimens , choosing for colors, sizes and shape.

because i can generate so many seeds to golf balls at once,
its pretty easy to weed thru and get really distinct ones.

ancient outdoor wilds, in un disturbed areas, may be monoculture.
todays lophs, , wich many are hybrids, are not.

global hybridization, is more common than ya think.
in a few yrs , they will be as varied as astrophytums....

just when ya thought it was safe huh.

:cookiemonster:

ok , so thats all i feel the need to show here ATM
in review, its pretty simple.......



hydro pereskiopsis, LED lights , clone em/ graft em / perfect shape.fast.

its pretty obvious.
ill now turn this thread over to the commentators ,
who will spend great effort, trying to convince you ,
that the obvious, is an illusion.........



good luck.:thumbup:

( special thanx to "team carrot" on this one)


Edited by anne halonium (01/08/14 11:37 PM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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