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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: who the hell cares what George Bernard Shaw thinks about LED hydro lophs? [Re: SuperD]
#19384640 - 01/07/14 07:39 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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ok.
and yet it works great mallacht, go figure. all your conjecture, and heresy , and yet i do it all the time.

get better consultants mallacht , the ones ya have are misinformed and boring this thread.

so that gives my hmmm......... um almost 19 years of LED experience with greens, cacti, and fungi, a big advantage in a very few yrs......
im starting to notice, some of you guys let details and dogma fence in your grow.
my only rule," biomass gets the lead out".
command your grow in a dynamic way. dont let fear of these things and dogma, slow ya down .
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Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 07:50 PM)
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theMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium] 2
#19384709 - 01/07/14 07:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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PROVE it then, Anne. Prove it with the experiment outlined in my last post. You seem to have no problem with chopping up Lophs to make little cars, why don't you chop some more off and dehydrate them as illustrated in my last post? Compare them to own-roots lophs. You won't do it because you know you're wrong.
When it doubt, do it the Annie way and just keep posting pictures of Lophs that EVERYONE here has stated they honestly think look terrible, and claiming that you're "the best"
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Edited by theMallacht (01/07/14 07:57 PM)
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theMallacht
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: theMallacht]
#19384738 - 01/07/14 07:57 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Also, I don't know if you caught this part of that post of not but here it is again...
Quote:
We sold them at the last Hydro store I worked at, and even partially owned the company we sold, and we STILL wouldn't even recommend them to anyone. Someone looks at it and we would say "Trust me man, you don't want that"
Why would a greedy Hydroponics store chain (and they ARE greedy, for sure) not attempt to sell their OWN affiliated product? We helped make and design the LEDs we sold and yet we still didn't recommend them to anyone, and furthermore, even steered people away from them any chance we got.
I'm done with you Anne. You won't see me post here again. You don't listen to reason and are really the complete antithesis of the scientific mind. Ignorant, don't listen to facts, and yet still think you're the best. Have fun continually looking for a pat on the back for your pointless work creating crappy looking Lophs!
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: theMallacht]
#19384755 - 01/07/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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mallacht, a few noobs bought into your line a few yrs ago on topia. those days are over, at least evolve a non yawner argument.
peeps have seen way to much, there are alot of grafters now, and some are even doing hydro. lots of obvious pics.
as far as LED, theres a fantastic grow all LED on your old ( deadmall cough) forum, you should check it out , they need the hits. badly.
i even have a land / air / sea icon

so really mallacht , to little too late. i suspect your joking actually.
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:02 PM)
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SuperD
Cacti junky


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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
#19384802 - 01/07/14 08:10 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I wanted to address this horrendous pic earlier but got distracted. You said 4 or 5 months ago (photo now deleted, I checked) that you have several different strains of lophs and you just repeated that again earlier today. Can we not step away from that misnomer already? We're not talking about cannabis here and even if we were, growing a poorly lit cannabis plant would not create a new strain. That is done through genetics and breeding as far as I'm aware.
I'm not against you coming up with your own terms for things but you have to realize even the most novice of growers on here and elsewhere know better than to call a light stretched cacti a new strain. That just isn't how things work unfortunately and it really puts a dent in your credibility whenever that term gets thrown around so carelessly.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
#19384839 - 01/07/14 08:17 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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define things as ya wish.
peeps hook me up with hybrid seeds from around the world to test.
we weed thru and clone unique ones. as far as were concerned, they are cloned strains, as most were hybrids in the first place.
also, i have radically differnt views on some of these things, and dont see lophs as a mono culture, but a complex group of subspecies.
all topics, beyond this thread.
dont care about pesty details. i grow hyper hyrdo cacti under exotic lights. at no point, am i trying to write a latin cactus book. dont care. i grow alot of cloned unique hybrids, and no one else has them. i can call them as i wish.
i only show a tiny fraction of what i have on these threads. i have a whole portofolio of everything ya can imagine, good and bad. we crash test dummy them, so you dont have to.
this threads focus, is hydro grafts, and LED , in VHO micro systems.
main reason im putting this stuff out is, i want peeps to see it before the next major thread " aeropohora X"
think of this like an alien movie, where the aliens show up in a little ship, and do little nifty things, so the earthings, " get used to em" then the mothership shows up. and the master aliens.
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Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:25 PM)
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
#19384863 - 01/07/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
i can call them as i wish.
You certainly can but when you use words commonly used to describe something entirely different, people get the wrong idea about your level of expertise and knowledge. It would be no different than me posting one of my many variegated specimens but calling it a crested cactus instead. I'd be getting a "WTF that is not crested!" response from everyone who knows the tiniest bit about cacti at all.
Why not just call it a light stretched specimen? If you want to grow them etoliated that is your business but it becomes obvious to everybody when terms are misused, especially around here.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
#19384909 - 01/07/14 08:31 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
SuperD said:

I wanted to address this horrendous pic earlier but got distracted. You said 4 or 5 months ago (photo now deleted, I checked) that you have several different strains of lophs and you just repeated that again earlier today. Can we not step away from that misnomer already? We're not talking about cannabis here and even if we were, growing a poorly lit cannabis plant would not create a new strain. That is done through genetics and breeding as far as I'm aware.
I'm not against you coming up with your own terms for things but you have to realize even the most novice of growers on here and elsewhere know better than to call a light stretched cacti a new strain. That just isn't how things work unfortunately and it really puts a dent in your credibility whenever that term gets thrown around so carelessly.
"Clone lines" would be another way to describe them. The second pic might look to be light starved by the shape, but I would say the tone indicates otherwise. May have received a weird spectrum of light though. (red heavy?)
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
#19384977 - 01/07/14 08:45 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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.......... ah psi........ i fished thru about a 20 k seeds and tested till i found ones sensitive to 680 nm that would go long , and ones at 450 nm that would go round , LED is fairly balanced spectrum, re root and crank em, they stay true to form. so techincally they are races of stabalized clones.
note the pic, round ones , long ones. same conditions. has noting to do with etoliation, and everything to do with strain variation.
these are topics for another thread. and boy are you gonna be shocked. see inexperienced peeps have screamed "etoliation", for yrs. its pure bulshit.
i started setting aside comparison pics under many types of lights and power levels, and different strains.. promise youll be really shocked, almost every pic goes against everything taught. but. as said, thats not this thread. that thread, is gonna change everyones POV.
once again, its beyond the scope to present all i know and my archives, in this thread,
here i present hydro loph grafts in an LED micro system. this is what this specific system does, and its capabilities. in other threads, ill pop other bubbbles.
you guys know me, ya know im sitting on some ace teks and info threads.....i just have to burn em off in segments or stages. this is part, of one of em.
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Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:48 PM)
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
#19385004 - 01/07/14 08:49 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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If by "might look to be light starved" you mean definitely looks to be light starved, then I agree but again I don't care what she does with her own lophs. It just bothers me as an intermediate grower to see terms misused like that on a forum designed to stop the spread of misinformation.
Clone line? Now we're talking genetics and not light spectrum are we not?
clone (kləʊn) —n: 1. a group of organisms or cells of the same genetic constitution that are descended from a common ancestor by asexual reproduction
If I were to take a cutting from that loph and place it in one of my greenhouses over the summer I'd bet my house it doesn't continue growing in the same fashion it currently is. That is not what a clone is.
You are confusing the hell out of me psi. I consider your knowledge on cacti to be far above mine due to learning so much from your posts in the past, but you have seriously got me wondering who between us is mixed up here. What good does using proper terminology do on a forum if anyone can make up their own definitions at will?
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
#19385104 - 01/07/14 09:10 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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"Strain" has a pretty loose definition in biology/botany from what I'm reading, basically related individuals with a pretty consistent morphology. Anne does tend to use terminology how she feels like it though, I often have to translate it internally to what I think she means.
There are reports elsewhere of lophs that grow in a columnar shape under all conditions, you may recall mention of columnar jourdanianas in the LGU thread or elsewhere.
Regarding light levels, don't you see what I mean about the color of that plant? I would say it's fairly dark. If I was viewing a zoomed in image of the plant's skin and could not see the shape, low light conditions would not have even occurred to me.
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SuperD
Cacti junky


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Posts: 6,648
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
#19385202 - 01/07/14 09:28 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Yeah I completely understand what you're saying about the color of the loph. Growing it under only one part of the spectrum it needs is still deprivation of light in my eyes though. I don't see how it could be anything but that. If anne wants to send me a small cutting to test in my GH over the next season I'd be happy to post results. I do remember the columnar jourd and it appeared healthy aside from that one factor.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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GoOnThen
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium] 1
#19385871 - 01/07/14 11:39 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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It is elongation or stretching all day every day until it has been grown under real light generated by the sun. And then only after a number of seasons of growth can you call it any thing else. You cant keep making up stuff to suit your self.
Would you call this a unique hybrid or elongated ?
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: GoOnThen]
#19386002 - 01/08/14 12:07 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Is that supposed to be a sulcorebutia rauschii? I've got a few grafted that took off vertically like that. I found they stay globular on slower growing stock but when I grafted some to pedro and myrtillo they wanted to go vertical on me. It could have to do with higher levels of light as well since most were in my GH.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/08/14 12:16 AM)
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GoOnThen
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
#19386084 - 01/08/14 12:35 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well done mate you take the prize. I grafted a couple of them after the original stock rotted ( Hylocereus )and I was like WTF is going on they was under the same lights as the original and they just kept going up and up. I have since moved them out into the green house to see whether they will fatten up. I also have another one that has done the same thing but my memory has gone at the moment. Here is a pic so you know the same could happen but I have noticed the ones I put out in the greenhouse early on have started to pup and fatten a little. Same deal stock rotted so I grafted all of the pups and now I have a heap of columnar ones.  Original plant

Cheers Got
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LSoares
Farmer



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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
#19386104 - 01/08/14 12:41 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: i dont want a bunch of dirt ruining a 75$ manicure
This made me smile.
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rockylampoon
Animal



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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: LSoares]
#19386316 - 01/08/14 02:08 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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How big is your total grow area and what was the cost for lights for all the space? What is your total wattage?
-------------------- I'll make sense when I run out of lemons. Until then I'll make lemonade.
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intelligentlife
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
#19386592 - 01/08/14 05:52 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I have find out many ways to grow cobulars to form of columnar. -High temperature with very high humidity cause this (that's why probably most cobular plants in southeast asia are growing columnar way, I have seen lots of lophs in asia, growing columar) -Strong red light without any other spectrums, maybe humidity of air can increase this.
It's my theory, I have not live or grown cacti in southeast asia but seems high constant humidity and plant capability to take water trough epidermis from humid air and very hot temperatures causes someway this. I have not seen much of columar lophs than l. jourdaniana grown elsewhere.
Most lophs grow more columnar or shape of a egg seems there is something to do with constant high humidity over the year and high temperatures. OR in southeast asia are reddish spectrum of sun what human eye can't see maybe due to pollution in air or something.. I don't know for sure but most "columar peyote" are from area where is very hot and humid almost all year round and maybe that effects the lophs so much they grow to appearance of "water balloon" even their epidermis are like hard grown ones.
Anyone else have notice difference of lophs grown in very humid and hot?
Why I throw this theory? ...Last summer I had only 3 lophs in greenhouse, their appearance started to resemble of those lophs I have seen grown in southeast asia. Also my greenhouse are always humid and hot. I can't basically get so dry conditions because of climate I have. But this should be tested more before I declare this is fact.
Only I know from fact, no matter of species, strong red light makes all cacti grow lenght.
Quote:
anne halonium said: your cool.
they are just like any fully hydrated loph, and acclimatize like any other......................
the more i read back thru this thread, the more i realize how badly you guys need LED. even if ya grow however ya grow, ya still need LED.
I don't need LED, not even think of it.. For cacti.
Cannabis is different. I need LED for it.
Cacti doesn't flower easily without HEAT.. It's obvious. Gymnocalycium doesn't seems to flower even with heat of sun.
I need HEAT, I need strong light. Over winter, spring and summer I have sun.
I'm not defensive. I don't just care about what you think of me.
I feel you are some kind of hidden LED vendor, barking for money by trying to sell LED for ornament growers.
Fluoro is cheap for me to grow seedlings. HPS+MH combo is cheap for me to keep adults over winter indoors. Even they give some heat, it's better than +20C and total darkness. Without water I can get growth stunted and keep dormancy.
Why I don't need LED over here at arctic.. it's obvious, IF I don't need to build anything stealth like cannabis grow room.. Then I don't need LED because I need heat from light. Not even fluoro heat enough. They are for seedlings.
I don't care how long it takes I have my ornament. Slow growing way by let plants "suffer" dehydraton and then water them again and so on, does the work and appearance for peyote and other lophophora I like.
One maybe most critical reason I use now HPS+MH combo, it's best spectrum and I will have UV-B for plants. Also heat from them heat the house similar way compared to small heat radiator.
I have failed lots of seedlings beacause lack of heat. Well I use heat mat for seedlings but they are not good for adults, Commercial greenhouse lights are good for columns and keep them in shape, they are above south window, when I want day light with my HPS and MH bulb. I open curtains of the window, you can't say trichs and few other species doesn't like the environment. I care the excess heat off with fans to circulate air.
Why I do this?
If I want LED for my setup.. I should invest ~800-1000€ or more to get enough LUX and Lumen for all plants in my garden with LED. My fluoros are separated from stronger lights, I use fluoros above and heat mat below because fluoros doesn't generate enough heat.
Without heat, what happens? ..lophophora seedlings rot, trichocereus seedlings rot.. They doesn't tolerate a shit of water without daytime +30-40C heat and night time +17-20C.
Some seasons I shut my lights off at Jan or Feb. Keep dormant season to till May. There is short summer. Maybe too short because I can't use greenhouse many months but enough I can grow some of my spice and food there.. So I keep cacti also there time I have.
But with ornaments, I need to imitate nature from Sepember to May indoors. I use windowsill to get sun when it comes above horizon. I just open my curtains and let plants have sun, when sun shines enough, I can shut HPS and use only sun and MH. And when summer comes more, I can shut MH also.
I know fluoros are shit for trichocereus over 1year old. Best way to get them like they should be is add them to windowsill at summer time and forget fluoros and every light.
You are right, I need LED for cannabis grow room, HPS are generating too much heat, and my circumstances doesn't allow me to build big area... LED are perfect for that purpose. My cacti doesn't need LED and my wallet doesn't want to spent too much money for LED, it's fact from cannabis growers, same money spent to LED and same money spent to HPS, you can't get nearly as good harvest as you can get with HPS.
Ain't that tell you something? Why lots of commercial cannabis grow rooms use HPS, they don't use LED. Harvest are not enough compared to money spent to LED. Also I need to get as much harvest as possible, but with chili, paprika and few other plants.
I have two bulbs, blue and yellow. I can illuminate whole room size of 5x5meter and every corner of the room plants stay alive over the winter and are ready to transfer to greenhouse when it's summer.. And cost of my lights are only 150€ Because space are so big, I don't need much of fans to ensure air circulation. Few fan blowing air to plants tip under the HPS and MH are enough.
For me this ain't all about cacti.. It's all plants, food plants grown in greenhouse, I need to make my own way to keep them alive over hard winter there what lasts 8months.
Greenhouse are is just best for cacti.. There are small ecosystem already.. They are in "dirt" fertilized with compost produced from household organic garbage. I have worms in soil keep soil perfect, I have spiders hunting pests, I have bees pollinating flowers. That ~4-5months time in greenhouse what is heated at start and at end basically "clean off" all bugs what probably comes indoors to plants.
This is not so black and white we all need LED.
For fuck sake. I need heat to keep my plants alive, I have sun and professional growing lights I can use indoors and when there is enough warm outdoors, I move my plants to greenhouse and let nature do it's job. Because area where I live, one greenhouse are crawling of predatory bugs and I have balance in bug control without any chemicals about 1/3 of the year. More I would invest money for greenhouse and heating of greenhouse over winter and fall. No point of spent money to LED if I can't get heat what is critical for plants to stay alive. And critical for cacti to prevent them not to become prone to rot in "dirt" as you say..
Dirt isn't even same thing than living soil.
Quote:
LSoares said:
Quote:
anne halonium said: i dont want a bunch of dirt ruining a 75$ manicure
This made me smile. 
Let us europeans idiots smile for this.

C'moooooooooooooon! 
Dirt ruin the cacti, soil doesn't.. There is difference about it.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/08/14 06:15 AM)
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: GoOnThen]
#19386614 - 01/08/14 06:10 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoOnThen said: Well done mate you take the prize. I grafted a couple of them after the original stock rotted ( Hylocereus )and I was like WTF is going on they was under the same lights as the original and they just kept going up and up. I have since moved them out into the green house to see whether they will fatten up. I also have another one that has done the same thing but my memory has gone at the moment. Here is a pic so you know the same could happen but I have noticed the ones I put out in the greenhouse early on have started to pup and fatten a little. Same deal stock rotted so I grafted all of the pups and now I have a heap of columnar ones.  Original plant

Cheers Got
Looks like a healthy echinocereus knippelianus maybe that's what you were trying to think of? I just saw a pic of s. rauschii grafted on pedro over at SAB and I'll be damned if it doesn't look normal and globular. Now I'm even more confused. Must be mainly a light/nute issue causing the stretch? I can't imagine what other factors could be involved.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Quote:
intelligentlife said: I have find out many ways to grow cobulars to form of columnar. -High temperature with very high humidity cause this (that's why probably most cobular plants in southeast asia are growing columnar way, I have seen lots of lophs in asia, growing columar) -Strong red light without any other spectrums, maybe humidity of air can increase this.
Those are interesting theories. I live where temps and humidity get very high during the grow season so that may explain it. I will try to remember to make more grafts of some globulars this next growing season and place them in different conditions to see if there is any difference in growth pattern.
One thing to note, this only seems to happen with certain species at least in my own experience. I'd be very interested to find out what is causing certain ones to grow columnar rather than globular since I normally keep all my cacti under the same growing conditions. If growing conditions (heat, humidity, light) were the sole cause of this columnar growth, I would have a greenhouse full of columnar grafted lophophora too..but I don't. The columnar growth only appeared on the grafted sulcorebutia rauschii for some reason but not other species. Another possibility is that some species grow columnar in the same growing conditions that other species grow globular. Some species might not be able to handle the same conditions due to their native habitat? I hope we find some answers to this question because I'm very curious.
Quote:
I feel you are some kind of hidden LED vendor, barking for money by trying to sell LED for ornament growers.
Many of us feel the same way, but I don't want to throw accusations around without solid evidence to back them up. The only real evidence we have that anne is a shill for an LED company would be her blog and spam posts here constantly praising LED. It's a very possible reality but I personally would need more substantial evidence before I called her out on that.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/08/14 07:14 AM)
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