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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
XHTTL / hydro grafts VS." hard grown" myth. * 1
    #19362508 - 01/03/14 09:06 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

im anne halonium, some know me , some dont.......

throughout all forums,
there is a commonly held " myth",
that hyper hydro grafts are " water balloons"

its a lie. plain and simple.
hydro grafts, as seen in XHTTL treads,
are essentially the same as a fully hydrated natural for strength!


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19347667

observe, test one........



observe test 2..........





observe , test 3....." the road test"



all the above , is pretty obvious.
essentially, they are about the same as carrots!

hmmmmm..........what have we demonstrated here?




fact is , hydro hyper grafts, are the same as fully hydrated naturals.
and annies XHTTL, grows a road tuff loph!


anyone can replicate this with ease.
thus putting a pin in the water balloon fantasy.

:rabble::rabble::rabble::rabble:


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 09:10 AM)


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InvisibleKBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
Re: XHTTL / hydro grafts VS." hard grown" myth. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19362515 - 01/03/14 09:08 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

I was beginning to worry that you wouldn't return my dear:biggrin:
Boy those sure look good:killerrabbit:


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: XHTTL / hydro grafts VS." hard grown" myth. [Re: KBG1977] * 1
    #19362531 - 01/03/14 09:14 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

always, where im needed most........
just flash the " jag sign" on the nearest cloud.



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:aliendance:


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
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Re: XHTTL / hydro grafts VS." hard grown" myth. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19362656 - 01/03/14 10:04 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
just flash the " jag sign" on the nearest cloud.






:lol:




Good demo, there do still seem to be some people who believe this about grafted plants.


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: XHTTL / hydro grafts VS. [Re: psi] * 1
    #19362690 - 01/03/14 10:12 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

i have a shear test coming also,
something to see how they hold up with tearing.
its a real water balloon inquisition.

peeps need to know this stuff in the new age.

annie speaks from testing shit.
i doubt everything.
me and the maid,
arent sure we believe some of the stuff we come up with ourselves sometimes.

till we test it.



gallon -0- bleach,
and a half a graft wedged tween cutting boards 20 minits?

ive been around hard growns and wild ones,
its the same as any fully hydrated.

* we also built a mini lophomobile.....



XHTTL graft tires 2.2 cm rims, hydro pereskiopsis antennae,
hydro re root graft engine, slightly dried, with dual root exhaust,
lopho wedge ground effect,....

tires are fresh cut, the rest is various states of drying.....
thus proving once again, they are not water balloon like at all.

they act like normal hard grown fully hydrated specimens.
dont buy into the mythology.


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 12:57 PM)


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InvisibleBig L
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Posts: 3,532
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Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 5
    #19363088 - 01/03/14 11:57 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I am only subscribing to this thread to see it get locked later. The logic behind this wouldn't even stand up to an elementary school science fair.


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: Big L] * 1
    #19363094 - 01/03/14 11:59 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

nice to see ya on record.........again.


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 12:00 PM)


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InvisibleBig L
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 3
    #19363107 - 01/03/14 12:04 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

but it's killing me, whose puppet are you? You remind me of Teotzlcoatl.


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: Big L] * 1
    #19363134 - 01/03/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

no puppet , could meet my standard.



who need puppets anyway , when ya can grow  for real?


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InvisibleBig L
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19363158 - 01/03/14 12:16 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

sure thing.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: Big L] * 1
    #19363168 - 01/03/14 12:20 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Big L said:
sure thing.




it always is, when ya bet on annie teks,
and, ignore mythology.



:cookiemonster:

ive made my point.


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InvisibleBig L
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19363188 - 01/03/14 12:24 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

uh huh. your teks.


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Edited by Big L (01/03/14 12:29 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: Big L] * 4
    #19363545 - 01/03/14 01:52 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

What you'r trying to proof? ...Most have got your point long time ago, or what people have miss?:lol: ..you grow peyote fast with pereskiopsis.. and?

Everyone know peyote can be grown with pereskiopsis as root stock.

Word "water balloon" means just plump up peyote. Nothing more. I think everyone know no matter what root stock or scion are used, they contains flesh also. No one have said they doesn't.

This is for sure good way if you want to grow peyote for consumption, but I don't see there is potential use for growing ornamental plants. Are there?:sun:

Good work with these, how potent your peyote plants are approx? (no need to say the exact dosages but some data about potency):thumbup:

I see you'r way to grow is just growing peyote for consumption. But why to judge ornamental growing of lophophora?

I'm ornamental grower myself...
I have nothing against annie's tek of growing peyote, it's good way to produce fast peyote scions. No doubt about it.

I don't understand what annie means about "myth" with peyote on it's own roots? Mostly people who grow peyote on their own root are simply ornamental plants.. In my garden every peyote is ornament like any other species of cacti.

Own root peyote can be grown also as "water balloon" ...in spain are growers who can achieve huge plants relatively short period of time with hot temperatures and almost daily watering. They're also "water balloons" ...own root plants. Problem with them are when they are moved to cooler climate, they shrink ~50% of their size. Excess +50C day temps and humidity, even own root peyote can be grown fast even there is danger of rotting, but I know in spain are growers who can get offshooting own root peyote in 3years with extreme conditions and constant watering and use of fungicides.

My good friend who makes his living with peyote and san pedro sale once obtained these fast grown plants in very hot and humid places, problem was when they are moved to cooler climate, watering can't be done like before and they really shrink very small and are very hard to water and keep in "shape" ..he sell ornaments, buy and sell, only what matter is plants are like in their habitat, because these plants sell best and are worth of selling to make living. Anyway, there is ornamental and consumption cultivation, ok? you'r teks are perfect but not suitable for ornamental growth, not everyone want even grafted plants. Some people I know they respect hard grown peyote and in best case if they are good shape, skin is good, etc etc, they are worth of money as ornament. More they are worth of people who have them and they have kept their shape over decades.

However, there is nothing wrong to grow peyote for consumption with pereskiopsis, but what is the "myth" you're talking about? There are lots of growing teks and way to grow peyote, every grower have their own tek and purpose why they grow them.

You're doing good work by achieve to produce lots of peyote flesh very fast, what is potency? I don't see any reason to use your tek if scions are not used for consumption. It's far away from ornamental growing in my mind.. I don't judge your tek, I just don't understand totally what you mean about "myth"

If you really want to spread your information about fast peyote growing, you should introduce yourself to people who consume peyote, they should take your tek and use it instead of growing them slowly, it's obvious... Most of people there probably never think of eating peyote, so why keep a hurry to get lots of buttons with mescaline?:shrug:

Peace to you and good luck for future works, but you should see not everyone there are in to consumption of peyote.. Some people love their appearance as they are and only way to achieve the appearance like peyote are in habitat is obvious..

IF I would want to grow peyote for consumption, no doubt I don't use your teks.. However, I just don't need to do anykind of mass grafting and fast growing because I have relatively strong san pedro clones from south america IF I really want to experience the mescaline. And they are very easy plants to grow without any knifes and work..

You still have not given the answer what is the yield of dry stuff and how much is approx dosage of peyote with your tek to get experience?

Your tek doesn't seem it's ornamental cacti collection so I can ask directly this. I don't see any potential for ornamental growing.

I practice grafting but with trichocereus, echinopsis, blue myrtle and few other stocks, just for fun... Still I love peyote cactus on it's own root, they are easy, watering randomly and let they live own life with own roots. Some people like me are just interested of seed grown peyote cactus, it's the appearance of hard grown cacti, nothing more, nothing less. They are not even for consumption. :tongue2:

This thread gives nothing more information to me but I'm really interested the yield of harvests and how potent dry peyote you can get with your tek? ...I just don't see your tek are nothing more than production of peyote for ingestion. And because of that, I don't want to go "illegal" way of growing peyote in purpose on consuming them. Ornamental peyote in my country are legal, any other way to speed up things and mass production are not basically legal so I can't even use this tek.

I have one pereskiopsis graft growing, it's probably l. koehresii, just have test out how fast loph growing because I am planning produce hybrid lophs from my own seeds, example koehresii x fricii and I need to speed up growth by grafting young seedlings to pereskiopsis to skip the first few years, later on probably degraft and grow buttons as ornament..

annie, your teks are good for growing lots of new specimens fast with pereskiopsis, no doubt:thumbup:

I just really don't get why you are against ornamental growing and people who are in to ornamental peyote? Or are you? :dancer:

Why you want to proof your tek constantly, everyone know you're doing good work.:stoned:


Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 02:06 PM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: intelligentlife] * 1
    #19363649 - 01/03/14 02:22 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

not against any sane adult grower , any style.
never said i was.
thats one of the distorted fantasys pseudo growers who hate me promote.

i am against low level experience growers,
claiming to be experts, about teks they do not use or understand.
this cheats the entire community thru misinfo.
naturally im insulted, you should be also.

point is here, hydro grafts, same as fully inflated naturals.

i am unconcerned with consumption issues.
this tek is for replicating rare cacti, en masse fast.

the  common water balloon myth, has been popped.

this is not a dirt graft thread.
this is a hydro graft thread.



of course, the principles apply to both.

i no longer grow grafts by dirt.


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 02:32 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19363936 - 01/03/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:

i am against low level experience growers,
claiming to be experts, about teks they do not use or understand.
this cheats the entire community thru misinfo.
naturally im insulted, you should be also.





I am not insulted, I want to correct information what is not right, I don't behave like I have "god-complex" against another..

Also I know I don't know everything, I don't dare to ask nor give advice.. I don't dare to say my mistakes and say I have learned trough them.. I am proud I can say I have fucked up so many times I just know what to do and what not to do..

I am a equal as anyone else, no matter what I know and what someone ask or inform.. If I spot wrong information, I can question the wrong information and ask where is the source, and IF I know the answer, I correct it.. But I can say, I really don't know everything, I don't feel I need to be attack against people who dare to ask what to do.. Even I know about growing cacti relatively much and wide range, still I don't dare to ask about things I don't know.. I can say I don't know all.. I am as "stupid" as anyone depends on matter what is the topic.

If you spot wrong information, correct it, don't attack against person who spread it. Isn't that more obvious way to get your voice heard?:tongue2:

Anyone needs to start somewhere, most growers who have no experience will say it and ask information..

Last time I see one people ask, not claimed to be "super hero"

You starts offensive posting about "mail order trophy" plants..

That one just asked what to do when new cactus have been obtained..

However, You should advice low level growers, improve your social skills. Offensive behavior against people who have got wrong information somewhere else doesn't help annie. You have seen it. I have seen it around this EG forum.

Maybe you want really push the limits of some people nerves and behave provocative because of...?

I see this thread as your provocative behavior trying to push out your tek's to people and blame those who are not "the best"

There are as much tek's as growers, everyone do like they want to do, some people are "dump" but you should not attack against them, you should talk with reason and correct their wrong information..

IF This thread is only for grafting, then you should ask people to share their own grafting photos too, go trough informative dialog and correct wrong information around. Aight?

You seems to be "at war" against new cacti collectors who may have got wrong information and spread it forwards by accident, you are "at war" to people who buy lophophora, c'mon it's big business anyway, if someone have "mail order trophy" you should not attack against them, if someone ask advice, you should be more informative without offensive behavior.

Your tek's have been there many times, everyone know them. Your behavior are known as provocative one, you just want to push the limits of some people nerves, blame starting growers of buying a cactus..

I don't see this is thread for grafting, this is thread you show your grafting as provocative way.. If this is thread for grafting, I mean thread where people can share their photos and talk about it, howcome noone show their own grafting photos?

What is the point of your threads if you behave the way you know you act provocative and push the nerves of another people.. There is nothing wrong is someone doesn't know what to do for cactus and ask information, there is nothing wrong if people buy new plants and don't grow them from seed, there is nothing wrong with that someone share their own tek, like you do.

You do good work, show good tek's but even you know this tek you do, who you are to judge another growers or more better, why attack against starting growers if they ask advice?

You are teach the people wrong way, start with giving advice and stop blaming people what they do, then you can stop the "noobs" ...advice and teach people without offensive behavior. Then you might win the war against people who don't know YET how to grow cacti, and you should really understand there is tek's some people like and you not, they are as good with growing cacti than your tek but different way.

You know pereskiopsis, lophs and leds, okey. Someone know how to build greenhouse and got all species blooming. Someone know how what is nice cactus species for windowsill. Someone just collect cacti and know things in general but not your tek, there is nothing wrong if growers doesn't know your tek or do it your way, there are thousands of species of cacti, you introduce knowledge only from two species and basically ignore everything else..

For example, lets take one friend of mine, she have orchids and cacti, also few lohps, also one grafted plant from me, it's ortegocactus macdougallii because she asked me to graft it, it's very rot prone species. Do you really know that 50years old lady care about your tek's when she want beautiful house with rare species of all kind of plants? She know how to care of them, probably more than you.

I still don't see your point why you want to attack against "noobs" ..it's not the way you can teach people to be better growers in your eyes..

Probably most of people just don't care what you think..? Most people treat cacti "just a plant" in the house or greenhouse. What if someone ask how to get lophophora species flowering, can you give answer without blaming another and start introducing your knifes and tek's.. I have not even seen pics from your plants flowering.

I don't say there is nothing bad in you'r tek. Your behavior against another is not great anyway.

I have not even seen picture from your peyote plants in bloom.

Even in grafting and all kind of collecting of cacti, there is much more way's to grow plants, most people interests are in the flowers of the cacti, some want to grow fast like you. Someone just want nice looking cacti.

I am much in to cresting and mutated plants, I want they need to be on their own roots.. You are very enthusiast against two species, pereskiopsis and peyote growth rate. It's okey but think for a while what is your deepest point of spamming the "same old thing" about your tek's?

I literally feel about your posts few things, you want people admire your work(like I do) and think you as some kind of "peyote god" ..if someone doesn't try to follow your foot prints on your own enthusiasm, you blame them to noobs and declare war against them without trying to spread information what is easy to read.

You can be informative without your provocative behavior and correct "wrong" information with facts.

Few pictures and two sentences isn't enough for that, and if sentences are pretty much of offensive against another, where you think your information about "best way to grow peyote" goes?

Your good information disappear behind your bad behavior, think about it.

You have lots to offer but still your provocative behavior really vanish all your great information behind your "greatness"

...practice your social skills so you can spread your information in the way people really want to read it. You are not any peyote god, I am not an expert of peyote nor grafting, probably noone of us are "the best of the best" and if so, these who really are good and best, doesn't behave and blame another people because they are starting their hobby or just don't know what to do.

IF your answer is always pereskiopsis, knife and peyote, and you don't know much of another species, do you really know everything or just small part of big hobby called cacti collection and cultivation?

You'r tek is cool, you know it. I know it, but all your provocative behavior to try make people angry will hide your greatness and you probably know it also. Noone really likes it you play god and only you have permission to blame another people.. You can correct wrong information, no need war for that.

Peace and love...:nyan:


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 03:38 PM)


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
San Mescalito
I'm a teapot


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 5
    #19364009 - 01/03/14 03:45 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

The post about you having 'weak' cacti is true.

The immune system of the cactus is compromised due to the excessive growth. In nature the cactus has been naturally bred (strongest survive) to grow slow and in extreme conditions. Due to rapid growth of grafted or even own roots without natural growth limiters, such as limestone or gypsum, cacti become weaker and are more susceptible to infestations and 'attacks'. Sure we can just protect the cactus by preventing and controlling the attack and damage however the larger the crop the larger the infestations.

The term weak may not have been directly related to the content but of the cactus defense system itself. Many people already believe that grafted cacti have the same content as its hard-grown counterpart.

In my research of aztekium, I found a reference for the claim of cacti being weaker however I can't locate it.

anna halonium why don't you make a flood table/tray so you don't need to change all of those test tubes waters every weak one by one? I would kill myself if I had to do this every week. I have semi-hydro pereskiopsis that are in soil but have a flood tray where I water them once a weak. My growth rate may not be as fast as yours but they are not heavily etiolated or a light green color.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: intelligentlife] * 1
    #19364063 - 01/03/14 04:02 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)



one of the keys modern, is root health.
peres roots are damaged easily.

hence bubblers and flow tables, need some bugs worked out.

the system now has 48 cups, and about 240 peres ( some doubles)
watering takes about 30 min a week.
dump em, refill em rack em..........
its actually far less hassle than a giant dirt forest.
and the output is far greater.
one must count all time and factors, not just watering.

if ya wanna guarantee a diseased crop,
do exactly what im doing, cept use dirt.

we use the hydro for a reason.
its the only way we know of , to control a head/ footprint fast crop.


im quoted as saying im never the last word on anything.
no one is.
there is tons to learn and explore.
it is impossible for me to do it alone.

my thing is simple.
i do these things and share.
can they be improved, ya likely.
by all means go for it.


i suspect im misunderstood sometimes.
take the teks and run with them its all new tek.
and its a free for all.

*intelligent, this place has thousands of members.
most are decent , sane and polite.
if a small percent of people are disturbed about my teks,
i dont really care.
my target market isnt the subset of imbecils that inhabit all forums,
my intent is to share grow options and experience.
cant win em all.


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 04:11 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: modern.shaman] * 2
    #19364095 - 01/03/14 04:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Why to even think need to "win someone" or so? why just not be part of community where everyone do what they likes, I am sure many people use your tek annie, problem is sometimes your good information just vanish under your behavior too much.. You try push everything too much, and if someone doesn't even care to photo their own plants, it doesn't mean they are noob..

I know lots of people, they have so much plants only small fraction of them are actually taken for picture and uploaded there.

IT doesn't mean if someone don't want to share their photos from plants and seedlings they are noobs, some people really have large collection, long time experience and they just don't care share photos from their plants but they care to write information.. It's not your job to make information wrong and claim without photos there is no evidence..

Like me, I just have not uploaded most of my collection there, I don't care, plants are for me, collection is for me, some pics I have uploaded, some experimental thread I have done by sowing seeds and upload pics and people can see how plants develop on their own in my care.. Just for fun, Later in future, it's basically good guide for novices later.. Even I say myself but from seed to mature cacti data, it's fun to do and probably someone seems it's interesting to follow. I don't say they are only truth, I don't say they are best way to do, it's just real time "blog" there..

I suggest to you annie, do same, sow seeds, start blog from day one to future.. Why not? Like my seedling "blogs" Just update some pics randomly and peeps can see how's things develop.

Just for fun grow plants on their own roots, they don't need much space and would be nice to see updates, and growth rates of cacti, no matter of species.:headbang:

Quote:

modern.shaman said:
I would kill myself if I had to do this every week.




Touché!
:aweohyou:

They are cacti, they should be able to be alone for months without human care..

My vision of cactus garden is simple:
-Do not water
-Do not touch
-Do not care.
-They're from toughest places where most plants can't survive!

-Why make things harder without any recretional/medical use for peyote?

Good point shammy:thumbup:


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 04:26 PM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: intelligentlife] * 1
    #19364113 - 01/03/14 04:13 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:

They are cacti, they should be able to be alone for months without human care..





funny ya mention that.
ya can pour out the water, and they last at least 3 months dry i know of from experiments.

they revive in about 10 days.

several yrs ago, we had some in a window we forgot about.
they can be dried and revived.
we didnt pursue this line of experimentation,
because were all about " full speed ahead" type of grows.
dried shit makes me yawn anyway.

of course, one can re root the golf balls at 3 months,
and in another 3 months, they are rooted fine.

its a cactus, before, during and after.
this tek is about conjuring lots of decent sized ones fast.
once they are re rooted , neglect them all ya want.

truthfully , think about it, i have a maid.
im the laziest grower here by a margin.
i merely figured out how to get lots flipping
a few water trays every week or so.
i can attest, its far less work than a scale graft garden in dirt.

i will admit this.
mail- ex growers, have it easiest, if thats the contest.
so on that, they are experts indeed,
and have us all beat..........




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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 04:38 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Stuff autistic people say. [Re: anne halonium] * 1
    #19364245 - 01/03/14 04:38 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

So basically the loph scion keep pereskiopsis healthy and ready to take water when need?

I have example about.. 4 same size identical pots all same size pereskiopsis with roots, 1 with scion.. 3 without scion. Only one with scion survived without pereskiopsis goes to 1mm thick slim dead plant.

I think lophs work someway as water storage to pereskiopsis or why only one pot of perekiopsis managed to survive 2weeks without any water in soil? Only one with scion was alive and soil was bone dry.

There is the survivor, 1week between photos. Don't know the loph species what it is tho.


annie said this is grafting thread, anyway, there is my first ever pereskiopsis stock I have succeed.. For some reason this is alive, I used dirty knife, just cut rotten roots off from lohp, pereskiopsis stock was without foliage and very wooden, still I find out there is actively growing scion, minor rot but maybe drought saved this from rotting more, now I see only growth.. :lol:

I have now done more grafts, they are in humid still and I just wait how they do.. For these I have used clean knife.. Plant in picture have been done without any purpose to even success, blade was full of dirt, pereskiopsis was hard to cut, blade was not even best shape and not sharp.:tongue2:


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 04:41 PM)


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