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OfflineRJLR
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Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried??
    #3790240 - 02/16/05 06:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hey ya.
My boyfriend has a question for yus.
Has any one tried grafting hops to weed? he's been reading up on it and is going to give it a go this summer...  apparently grafting a hops cutting to a mother plant of weed will give you hops like heads with all the effects of weed...
He's asked at a couple cannabis forums and come up with nothing... I thought maybe you guys would have a clue. :smile: :grin: :wink:


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Offlinedougyfresh038
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: RJLR]
    #3791022 - 02/16/05 08:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

what the hell is grafting a hops?


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: RJLR]
    #3791038 - 02/16/05 09:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

though they are related, I do not think this will create a more psycoactive hops, people belive that cannabinoids come from the roots, for some reason. I do not think this is true.


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: dougyfresh038]
    #3791044 - 02/16/05 09:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dougyfresh038 said:
what the hell is grafting a hops?





By grafting hops, they mean taking a hops plant and setting it on a cannabis rootstock in such away that they heal and fuse together.


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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: gdman]
    #3791332 - 02/17/05 02:56 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

and hops is the shit fermented to make beer. just to be clear in case there was a misunderstanding or some people don't know.


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Offlineel_duderino
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3791952 - 02/17/05 07:19 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

is the intention here to make cannabeer?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: RJLR]
    #3792000 - 02/17/05 07:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Grafting

One of the most persistent myths in marijuana lore concerns grafting Cannabis to its closest relative. Humulus, the hops plant of beer-making fame. The myth is that a hops scion (shoot or top portion of the stem) grafted to a marijuana stock (lower stem and root) will contain the active ingredients of marijuana. The beauty of such a graft is that it would be difficult to identify as marijuana and, possible, the plant would not be covered under marijuana statutes. Unfortunately, the myth is false. It is possible to successfully graft Cannabis with Humulus, but the hops portion will not contain any cannabinoids.


In 1975, the research team of Crombie and Crombie grafted hops scions on Cannabis stocks from both hemp and marijuana (Thailand) plants. Cannabis scions were also grafted to hops stocks. In both cases, the Cannabis portion of the graft continued to produce its characteristic amounts of cannabinoids when compared to ungrafted controls, but the hops portions of the grafts contained no cannabinoids. This experiment was well-designed and carried out. Sophisticated methods were used for detecting THC, THCV, CBD, CBC, CBN, and CBG. Yet none of these were detected in the hops portions.


The grafting myth grew out of work by H.E. Warmke, which was carried out for the government during the early 1940's in an attempt to develop hemp strains that would not contain the "undesirable" drug. The testing procedure for the active ingredients was crude. Small animals, such as the water flea Daphnia, were immersed in water with various concentration of acetone extracts from hemp. The strength of the drug was estimated by the number of animals killed in a given period of time. As stated by Warmke, "The Daphnia assay is not specific for the marijuana drug ... once measures any and all toxic substances in hemp (or hop) leaves that are extracted with acetone, whether or not these have specific marijuana activity." Clearly it was other compounds, not cannabinoids, that were detected in these grafting experiments.


Unfortunately, this myth has caused some growers to waste a lot of time and effort in raising a worthless stash of hops leaves. It has also leg growers to some false conclusions about the plant. For instance, if the hops scion contains cannabinoids, the reasonable assumption is that the cannabinoids are being produced in the Cannabis part and translocated to the hops scion, or that the Cannabis root or stem is responsible for producing the cannabinoids precursors.


From this assumption, growers also get the idea that the resin is flowing in the plant. The myth has bolstered the ideas that cutting, splitting, or bending the stem will send the resin up the plant or prevent the resin from going down the plant. As explained in our discussion of resin glands in section 2, these ideas are erroneous. Only a small percentage of the cannabinoids are present in the internal tissues (laticiferous cells) of the plant. Almost all the cannabinoids are contained and manufactured in the resin glands, which cover the outer surfaces of the above-ground plant parts. Cannabinoids remain in the resin glands and are not translocated to other plant parts.


We have heard several claims that leaves from hops grafted on marijuana were psychoactive. Only one such case claimed to be first hand, and we never did see or smoke the material. We doubt these claims. Hops plants do have resin glands similar to those on marijuana, and many of the substances that make up the resin are common to both plants. But of several species and many varieties of hops tested with modern techniques for detecting cannabinoids, no cannabinoids have ever been detected.


The commercially valuable component of hops is lupulin, a mildly psychoactive substance used to make beer. To our knowledge, no other known psychoactive substances has been isolated from hops. But since these grafting claims persist, perhaps pot-heads should take a closer look at the hops plant.


Most growers who have tried grafting Cannabis and Humulus are unsuccessful. Compared to many plants, Cannabis does not take grafts easily. Most of the standard grafting techniques you've probably seen for grafting Cannabis simply don't work. For example, at the University of Mississippi, researchers failed to get one successful graft from the sixty that were attempted between Cannabis and Humulus. A method that works about 40 percent of the time is as follows.

Start the hops plants one to two weeks before the marijuana plants. Plant the seeds within six inches of each other or start them in separate six-inch pots. The plants are ready to graft when the seedling are strong (about five and four weeks respectively) but their stem has not lost their soft texture. Make a diagonal incision about halfway through each stem at approximate the same levels (hops is a vine). Insert the cut portions into each other. Seal the graft with cellulose tape, wound string, or other standard grafting materials. In about two weeks, the graft will have taken. Then cut away the unwanted Cannabis top and the hops bottom to complete the graft. Good luck, but don't expect to get high from the hops leaves. {Smoking any plant's leaves will give a short, slight buzz.}

Warmke, H.E. and Davidson, H. 1944. Polyploidy Investigations. Carnegie Inst. Wash. Yearbook 43:153-155.

Crombie, L., and Crombie, W.M.L. 1975. Cannabinoid Formation in Cannabis sativa Grafted Inter-Racially, and with Two Humulus Species. Phytochem. 14:409-412.

Crombie, L., and Crombie, W.M.L. 1975. Cannabinoid Formation in Cannabis sativa Grafted Inter-Racially, and with Two Humulus Species. Phytochem. 14:409-412.


Fenselau, C., Kelly, S., Salmon, M., and Billets, S. 1976. The Abscence of THC from Hops. Food Socmet. Toxicol. 14(1):35-39.


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OfflineRJLR
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... this is the info I got?? [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3792107 - 02/17/05 08:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The American government had, during the 2nd world war, many research programs concerning the culture of hemp. One of these programs intended to develop a plant whose fiber would be as solid as that of hemp and who would not produce " toxic resin ". Parmi the many failures record in this respect a particular hybrid that of hemp and hops beat all the records: it produced as much cannabis resin as that of a plant of Cana and its fiber reveal in useable. It's appearance reproduced that of the hops (a climbing plant which can reach + 7M ) which from the governmental point of view could present by grafting, simple operation is an opportunity of all amateurs. La Clerc's Official ( type of hops ) is made between the inferior (plus part the root) on a young plant of Cana and the superior part of a plant of hops of same the age. Makes that the resultant hybrid of this Clerc's Officelle produces of the same cannabis resin is A what the siege mechanisms of production of that seems to be located in the roots of the mother plant Cannabis....

I translated this from French... really quick... the end doesn't really make sense... but I'm busy. Sounds like it should work... any way I'll post some more info when we have some facts from trying it out... :grin:


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OfflineRJLR
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... this is the info I got?? [Re: Anno]
    #3792125 - 02/17/05 09:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hi thanks for that info, i'll tell my man, I think he wants to try anyway... So hey man what ever. Again Thanks alot...


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Invisibleobaku
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... this is the info I got?? [Re: RJLR]
    #3792342 - 02/17/05 10:16 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with Anno that hops grafted onto cannabis rootstock doesn't produce a stealth source of cannabinoids. There is also a graft process that splits a growing bud of hops down the middle, horizontally, called an apical graft. The split hops bud is grafted to a split cannabis bud, and tissues from both plants mix together in the resulting growth. I've never done one, so it might produce a canna/hops plant.

A more interesting graft is possible, however. If one roots a healthy hops cutting, and waits for it to produce a very extensive and healthy root system, one can graft a cannabis bud that has just started flowering (around the stage where the bud is producing many flowers and few leaves) to the hops rootstock. The plant will still look something like a cannabis plant, but the bud will draw from the stored energy in the hops roots and produce a huge bud with few, if any leaves. The plants look like a big, fat, leafless cola growing on an otherwise bare hops "stick".

Hops plants could be rooted in many pots and grown outside without worry. Then the grafts could be made and the flowers would finish their growth inside a grow room, taking up less space as the cannibis flower converts the stored nutrients in the hops root into cannabis resins. A product called elastic thread, from a sewing goods store, is great stuff for wrapping the grafted parts so they heal together. I think something called a side graft or whip graft is the best one to use.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... this is the info I got?? [Re: obaku]
    #3794948 - 02/17/05 09:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

dunno where i stand, but i am going on the assumption that a good hops root stock is WAY bigger than a pot plants. so i would assume you could get way faster maybe even bigger plants/buds on a large vines rootstock.

i doubt the potency thing. but if you have more water/moisture coming in i would think it could produce bigger buds.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: Anno]
    #3795117 - 02/17/05 09:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It would be a nice idea, grafting pot to hops just for the sole purpuse of having some nuggs growing on a vine.


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Invisibleobaku
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #3797669 - 02/18/05 11:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

By using well-rooted hops bases that have fairly small stems, a little smaller than a pencil, it does work. Because of the small size of the bud's stem, a side graft is best. If you take many small buds from one plant that has just started flowering, and graft them to several hops plants' rooted bases, the buds will grow much larger than they would have on the single cannabis plant. The buds also look very strange because they don't grow like normal plants; they are just fat, nearly leafless colas on a short, maybe six inch tall hops stump.

Someone has also grafted cannabis buds to a large, trellised hops vine. The buds stay nice and healthy, but the hops vine doesnt' seem to send the buds much energy. I think one would have to remove all the hops leaves and growing tips so the vine has no choice but to send all the growth to the cannabis buds. It's also more difficult to control the light periods when the hops vine is outdoors.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: obaku]
    #3798150 - 02/18/05 01:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

HOPS -- _Humulus lupulus._ Family Cannabinaceae.
Material: Flaky-textured and pleasantly bitter fruiting parts of
perennial vine used as a flavoring in beer brewing.
Usage: May be smoked like marijuana, extracted into alcohol or
steeped in water (1 oz./pt.).
Active Constituents: Lupuline (a resinous powder chemically
related to THC).
Effects: Sedative: When smoked gives mild marijuana-like high
with sedative qualities.
Contraindications: Excessive use over a long period may cause
dizziness, mental stupor, and mild jaundice symptoms in some
individuals.
Note: Several popular books on the cultivation of cannabis have
pointed out that hops vines may be grafted to marijuana root stocks.
The result is a plant which appears to be a normal hops vine but which
contains the active constituents of marijuana. This means that people
can raise their own marijuana disguised as hops and not be discovered
by law agents. Because of this the government has asked hops growers
to refuse to sell hops cuttings to the general public. There are no
laws against hops but they are now difficult to obtain. Hops are
mostly propagated from root cuttings. Viable seeds are rare.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #3799498 - 02/18/05 06:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Grafting indica on sativa's and making multi strain moms was discussed a few times over at OG. I tried grafting a while ago, just grafting from branch to branch on the same mom plant. I but didnt practice much sterile tek because this was pre mushrooms and they all rotted.


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Invisibleobaku
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Re: Grafting hops to cannabis... anyone tried?? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #3813845 - 02/21/05 11:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If it were possible to graft a hops shoot onto a rooted cannabis stalk, and it grew to produce hops appearing foliage with cannabis potency, I think someone would have seen the product by now. Everyone would be growing stealth mj and the market would be flooded with the stuff. Anybody seen anything like this, ever?


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