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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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im anne halonium, some know me , some dont.......
throughout all forums, there is a commonly held " myth", that hyper hydro grafts are " water balloons" its a lie. plain and simple. hydro grafts, as seen in XHTTL treads, are essentially the same as a fully hydrated natural for strength! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ observe, test one........ observe test 2.......... observe , test 3....." the road test" all the above , is pretty obvious. essentially, they are about the same as carrots! hmmmmm..........what have we demonstrated here? fact is , hydro hyper grafts, are the same as fully hydrated naturals. and annies XHTTL, grows a road tuff loph! anyone can replicate this with ease. thus putting a pin in the water balloon fantasy. ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 09:10 AM)
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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I was beginning to worry that you wouldn't return my dear
![]() Boy those sure look good
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Quote: ![]() Good demo, there do still seem to be some people who believe this about grafted plants.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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i have a shear test coming also,
something to see how they hold up with tearing. its a real water balloon inquisition. peeps need to know this stuff in the new age. annie speaks from testing shit. i doubt everything. me and the maid, arent sure we believe some of the stuff we come up with ourselves sometimes. till we test it. gallon -0- bleach, and a half a graft wedged tween cutting boards 20 minits? ive been around hard growns and wild ones, its the same as any fully hydrated. * we also built a mini lophomobile..... XHTTL graft tires 2.2 cm rims, hydro pereskiopsis antennae, hydro re root graft engine, slightly dried, with dual root exhaust, lopho wedge ground effect,.... tires are fresh cut, the rest is various states of drying..... thus proving once again, they are not water balloon like at all. they act like normal hard grown fully hydrated specimens. dont buy into the mythology. Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 12:57 PM)
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In tall buildings Registered: 02/11/09 Posts: 3,532 Loc: Luxury |
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I am only subscribing to this thread to see it get locked later. The logic behind this wouldn't even stand up to an elementary school science fair.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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nice to see ya on record.........again.
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Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 12:00 PM)
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In tall buildings Registered: 02/11/09 Posts: 3,532 Loc: Luxury |
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but it's killing me, whose puppet are you? You remind me of Teotzlcoatl.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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In tall buildings Registered: 02/11/09 Posts: 3,532 Loc: Luxury |
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sure thing.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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Quote: it always is, when ya bet on annie teks, and, ignore mythology. ![]() ive made my point. --------------------
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In tall buildings Registered: 02/11/09 Posts: 3,532 Loc: Luxury |
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uh huh. your teks.
Edited by Big L (01/03/14 12:29 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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What you'r trying to proof? ...Most have got your point long time ago, or what people have miss?
..you grow peyote fast with pereskiopsis.. and?Everyone know peyote can be grown with pereskiopsis as root stock. Word "water balloon" means just plump up peyote. Nothing more. I think everyone know no matter what root stock or scion are used, they contains flesh also. No one have said they doesn't. This is for sure good way if you want to grow peyote for consumption, but I don't see there is potential use for growing ornamental plants. Are there? ![]() Good work with these, how potent your peyote plants are approx? (no need to say the exact dosages but some data about potency) I see you'r way to grow is just growing peyote for consumption. But why to judge ornamental growing of lophophora? I'm ornamental grower myself... I have nothing against annie's tek of growing peyote, it's good way to produce fast peyote scions. No doubt about it. I don't understand what annie means about "myth" with peyote on it's own roots? Mostly people who grow peyote on their own root are simply ornamental plants.. In my garden every peyote is ornament like any other species of cacti. Own root peyote can be grown also as "water balloon" ...in spain are growers who can achieve huge plants relatively short period of time with hot temperatures and almost daily watering. They're also "water balloons" ...own root plants. Problem with them are when they are moved to cooler climate, they shrink ~50% of their size. Excess +50C day temps and humidity, even own root peyote can be grown fast even there is danger of rotting, but I know in spain are growers who can get offshooting own root peyote in 3years with extreme conditions and constant watering and use of fungicides. My good friend who makes his living with peyote and san pedro sale once obtained these fast grown plants in very hot and humid places, problem was when they are moved to cooler climate, watering can't be done like before and they really shrink very small and are very hard to water and keep in "shape" ..he sell ornaments, buy and sell, only what matter is plants are like in their habitat, because these plants sell best and are worth of selling to make living. Anyway, there is ornamental and consumption cultivation, ok? you'r teks are perfect but not suitable for ornamental growth, not everyone want even grafted plants. Some people I know they respect hard grown peyote and in best case if they are good shape, skin is good, etc etc, they are worth of money as ornament. More they are worth of people who have them and they have kept their shape over decades. However, there is nothing wrong to grow peyote for consumption with pereskiopsis, but what is the "myth" you're talking about? There are lots of growing teks and way to grow peyote, every grower have their own tek and purpose why they grow them. You're doing good work by achieve to produce lots of peyote flesh very fast, what is potency? I don't see any reason to use your tek if scions are not used for consumption. It's far away from ornamental growing in my mind.. I don't judge your tek, I just don't understand totally what you mean about "myth" If you really want to spread your information about fast peyote growing, you should introduce yourself to people who consume peyote, they should take your tek and use it instead of growing them slowly, it's obvious... Most of people there probably never think of eating peyote, so why keep a hurry to get lots of buttons with mescaline? ![]() Peace to you and good luck for future works, but you should see not everyone there are in to consumption of peyote.. Some people love their appearance as they are and only way to achieve the appearance like peyote are in habitat is obvious.. IF I would want to grow peyote for consumption, no doubt I don't use your teks.. However, I just don't need to do anykind of mass grafting and fast growing because I have relatively strong san pedro clones from south america IF I really want to experience the mescaline. And they are very easy plants to grow without any knifes and work.. You still have not given the answer what is the yield of dry stuff and how much is approx dosage of peyote with your tek to get experience? Your tek doesn't seem it's ornamental cacti collection so I can ask directly this. I don't see any potential for ornamental growing. I practice grafting but with trichocereus, echinopsis, blue myrtle and few other stocks, just for fun... Still I love peyote cactus on it's own root, they are easy, watering randomly and let they live own life with own roots. Some people like me are just interested of seed grown peyote cactus, it's the appearance of hard grown cacti, nothing more, nothing less. They are not even for consumption. ![]() This thread gives nothing more information to me but I'm really interested the yield of harvests and how potent dry peyote you can get with your tek? ...I just don't see your tek are nothing more than production of peyote for ingestion. And because of that, I don't want to go "illegal" way of growing peyote in purpose on consuming them. Ornamental peyote in my country are legal, any other way to speed up things and mass production are not basically legal so I can't even use this tek. I have one pereskiopsis graft growing, it's probably l. koehresii, just have test out how fast loph growing because I am planning produce hybrid lophs from my own seeds, example koehresii x fricii and I need to speed up growth by grafting young seedlings to pereskiopsis to skip the first few years, later on probably degraft and grow buttons as ornament.. annie, your teks are good for growing lots of new specimens fast with pereskiopsis, no doubt I just really don't get why you are against ornamental growing and people who are in to ornamental peyote? Or are you? ![]() Why you want to proof your tek constantly, everyone know you're doing good work.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 02:06 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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not against any sane adult grower , any style.
never said i was. thats one of the distorted fantasys pseudo growers who hate me promote. i am against low level experience growers, claiming to be experts, about teks they do not use or understand. this cheats the entire community thru misinfo. naturally im insulted, you should be also. point is here, hydro grafts, same as fully inflated naturals. i am unconcerned with consumption issues. this tek is for replicating rare cacti, en masse fast. the common water balloon myth, has been popped. this is not a dirt graft thread. this is a hydro graft thread. of course, the principles apply to both. i no longer grow grafts by dirt. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 02:32 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Quote: I am not insulted, I want to correct information what is not right, I don't behave like I have "god-complex" against another.. Also I know I don't know everything, I don't dare to ask nor give advice.. I don't dare to say my mistakes and say I have learned trough them.. I am proud I can say I have fucked up so many times I just know what to do and what not to do.. I am a equal as anyone else, no matter what I know and what someone ask or inform.. If I spot wrong information, I can question the wrong information and ask where is the source, and IF I know the answer, I correct it.. But I can say, I really don't know everything, I don't feel I need to be attack against people who dare to ask what to do.. Even I know about growing cacti relatively much and wide range, still I don't dare to ask about things I don't know.. I can say I don't know all.. I am as "stupid" as anyone depends on matter what is the topic. If you spot wrong information, correct it, don't attack against person who spread it. Isn't that more obvious way to get your voice heard? ![]() Anyone needs to start somewhere, most growers who have no experience will say it and ask information.. Last time I see one people ask, not claimed to be "super hero" You starts offensive posting about "mail order trophy" plants.. That one just asked what to do when new cactus have been obtained.. However, You should advice low level growers, improve your social skills. Offensive behavior against people who have got wrong information somewhere else doesn't help annie. You have seen it. I have seen it around this EG forum. Maybe you want really push the limits of some people nerves and behave provocative because of...? I see this thread as your provocative behavior trying to push out your tek's to people and blame those who are not "the best" There are as much tek's as growers, everyone do like they want to do, some people are "dump" but you should not attack against them, you should talk with reason and correct their wrong information.. IF This thread is only for grafting, then you should ask people to share their own grafting photos too, go trough informative dialog and correct wrong information around. Aight? You seems to be "at war" against new cacti collectors who may have got wrong information and spread it forwards by accident, you are "at war" to people who buy lophophora, c'mon it's big business anyway, if someone have "mail order trophy" you should not attack against them, if someone ask advice, you should be more informative without offensive behavior. Your tek's have been there many times, everyone know them. Your behavior are known as provocative one, you just want to push the limits of some people nerves, blame starting growers of buying a cactus.. I don't see this is thread for grafting, this is thread you show your grafting as provocative way.. If this is thread for grafting, I mean thread where people can share their photos and talk about it, howcome noone show their own grafting photos? What is the point of your threads if you behave the way you know you act provocative and push the nerves of another people.. There is nothing wrong is someone doesn't know what to do for cactus and ask information, there is nothing wrong if people buy new plants and don't grow them from seed, there is nothing wrong with that someone share their own tek, like you do. You do good work, show good tek's but even you know this tek you do, who you are to judge another growers or more better, why attack against starting growers if they ask advice? You are teach the people wrong way, start with giving advice and stop blaming people what they do, then you can stop the "noobs" ...advice and teach people without offensive behavior. Then you might win the war against people who don't know YET how to grow cacti, and you should really understand there is tek's some people like and you not, they are as good with growing cacti than your tek but different way. You know pereskiopsis, lophs and leds, okey. Someone know how to build greenhouse and got all species blooming. Someone know how what is nice cactus species for windowsill. Someone just collect cacti and know things in general but not your tek, there is nothing wrong if growers doesn't know your tek or do it your way, there are thousands of species of cacti, you introduce knowledge only from two species and basically ignore everything else.. For example, lets take one friend of mine, she have orchids and cacti, also few lohps, also one grafted plant from me, it's ortegocactus macdougallii because she asked me to graft it, it's very rot prone species. Do you really know that 50years old lady care about your tek's when she want beautiful house with rare species of all kind of plants? She know how to care of them, probably more than you. I still don't see your point why you want to attack against "noobs" ..it's not the way you can teach people to be better growers in your eyes.. Probably most of people just don't care what you think..? Most people treat cacti "just a plant" in the house or greenhouse. What if someone ask how to get lophophora species flowering, can you give answer without blaming another and start introducing your knifes and tek's.. I have not even seen pics from your plants flowering. I don't say there is nothing bad in you'r tek. Your behavior against another is not great anyway. I have not even seen picture from your peyote plants in bloom. Even in grafting and all kind of collecting of cacti, there is much more way's to grow plants, most people interests are in the flowers of the cacti, some want to grow fast like you. Someone just want nice looking cacti. I am much in to cresting and mutated plants, I want they need to be on their own roots.. You are very enthusiast against two species, pereskiopsis and peyote growth rate. It's okey but think for a while what is your deepest point of spamming the "same old thing" about your tek's? I literally feel about your posts few things, you want people admire your work(like I do) and think you as some kind of "peyote god" ..if someone doesn't try to follow your foot prints on your own enthusiasm, you blame them to noobs and declare war against them without trying to spread information what is easy to read. You can be informative without your provocative behavior and correct "wrong" information with facts. Few pictures and two sentences isn't enough for that, and if sentences are pretty much of offensive against another, where you think your information about "best way to grow peyote" goes? Your good information disappear behind your bad behavior, think about it. You have lots to offer but still your provocative behavior really vanish all your great information behind your "greatness" ...practice your social skills so you can spread your information in the way people really want to read it. You are not any peyote god, I am not an expert of peyote nor grafting, probably noone of us are "the best of the best" and if so, these who really are good and best, doesn't behave and blame another people because they are starting their hobby or just don't know what to do. IF your answer is always pereskiopsis, knife and peyote, and you don't know much of another species, do you really know everything or just small part of big hobby called cacti collection and cultivation? You'r tek is cool, you know it. I know it, but all your provocative behavior to try make people angry will hide your greatness and you probably know it also. Noone really likes it you play god and only you have permission to blame another people.. You can correct wrong information, no need war for that. Peace and love...
Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 03:38 PM)
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San Mescalito Registered: 05/09/12 Posts: 3,224 Loc: Zone 13 |
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The post about you having 'weak' cacti is true.
The immune system of the cactus is compromised due to the excessive growth. In nature the cactus has been naturally bred (strongest survive) to grow slow and in extreme conditions. Due to rapid growth of grafted or even own roots without natural growth limiters, such as limestone or gypsum, cacti become weaker and are more susceptible to infestations and 'attacks'. Sure we can just protect the cactus by preventing and controlling the attack and damage however the larger the crop the larger the infestations. The term weak may not have been directly related to the content but of the cactus defense system itself. Many people already believe that grafted cacti have the same content as its hard-grown counterpart. In my research of aztekium, I found a reference for the claim of cacti being weaker however I can't locate it. anna halonium why don't you make a flood table/tray so you don't need to change all of those test tubes waters every weak one by one? I would kill myself if I had to do this every week. I have semi-hydro pereskiopsis that are in soil but have a flood tray where I water them once a weak. My growth rate may not be as fast as yours but they are not heavily etiolated or a light green color.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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one of the keys modern, is root health. peres roots are damaged easily. hence bubblers and flow tables, need some bugs worked out. the system now has 48 cups, and about 240 peres ( some doubles) watering takes about 30 min a week. dump em, refill em rack em.......... its actually far less hassle than a giant dirt forest. and the output is far greater. one must count all time and factors, not just watering. if ya wanna guarantee a diseased crop, do exactly what im doing, cept use dirt. we use the hydro for a reason. its the only way we know of , to control a head/ footprint fast crop. im quoted as saying im never the last word on anything. no one is. there is tons to learn and explore. it is impossible for me to do it alone. my thing is simple. i do these things and share. can they be improved, ya likely. by all means go for it. i suspect im misunderstood sometimes. take the teks and run with them its all new tek. and its a free for all. *intelligent, this place has thousands of members. most are decent , sane and polite. if a small percent of people are disturbed about my teks, i dont really care. my target market isnt the subset of imbecils that inhabit all forums, my intent is to share grow options and experience. cant win em all. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 04:11 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Why to even think need to "win someone" or so? why just not be part of community where everyone do what they likes, I am sure many people use your tek annie, problem is sometimes your good information just vanish under your behavior too much.. You try push everything too much, and if someone doesn't even care to photo their own plants, it doesn't mean they are noob..
I know lots of people, they have so much plants only small fraction of them are actually taken for picture and uploaded there. IT doesn't mean if someone don't want to share their photos from plants and seedlings they are noobs, some people really have large collection, long time experience and they just don't care share photos from their plants but they care to write information.. It's not your job to make information wrong and claim without photos there is no evidence.. Like me, I just have not uploaded most of my collection there, I don't care, plants are for me, collection is for me, some pics I have uploaded, some experimental thread I have done by sowing seeds and upload pics and people can see how plants develop on their own in my care.. Just for fun, Later in future, it's basically good guide for novices later.. Even I say myself but from seed to mature cacti data, it's fun to do and probably someone seems it's interesting to follow. I don't say they are only truth, I don't say they are best way to do, it's just real time "blog" there.. I suggest to you annie, do same, sow seeds, start blog from day one to future.. Why not? Like my seedling "blogs" Just update some pics randomly and peeps can see how's things develop. Just for fun grow plants on their own roots, they don't need much space and would be nice to see updates, and growth rates of cacti, no matter of species. ![]() Quote: Touché! ![]() They are cacti, they should be able to be alone for months without human care.. My vision of cactus garden is simple: -Do not water -Do not touch -Do not care. -They're from toughest places where most plants can't survive! -Why make things harder without any recretional/medical use for peyote? Good point shammy Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 04:26 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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Quote: funny ya mention that. ya can pour out the water, and they last at least 3 months dry i know of from experiments. they revive in about 10 days. several yrs ago, we had some in a window we forgot about. they can be dried and revived. we didnt pursue this line of experimentation, because were all about " full speed ahead" type of grows. dried shit makes me yawn anyway. of course, one can re root the golf balls at 3 months, and in another 3 months, they are rooted fine. its a cactus, before, during and after. this tek is about conjuring lots of decent sized ones fast. once they are re rooted , neglect them all ya want. truthfully , think about it, i have a maid. im the laziest grower here by a margin. i merely figured out how to get lots flipping a few water trays every week or so. i can attest, its far less work than a scale graft garden in dirt. i will admit this. mail- ex growers, have it easiest, if thats the contest. so on that, they are experts indeed, and have us all beat.......... --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 04:38 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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So basically the loph scion keep pereskiopsis healthy and ready to take water when need?
I have example about.. 4 same size identical pots all same size pereskiopsis with roots, 1 with scion.. 3 without scion. Only one with scion survived without pereskiopsis goes to 1mm thick slim dead plant. I think lophs work someway as water storage to pereskiopsis or why only one pot of perekiopsis managed to survive 2weeks without any water in soil? Only one with scion was alive and soil was bone dry. There is the survivor, 1week between photos. Don't know the loph species what it is tho. annie said this is grafting thread, anyway, there is my first ever pereskiopsis stock I have succeed.. For some reason this is alive, I used dirty knife, just cut rotten roots off from lohp, pereskiopsis stock was without foliage and very wooden, still I find out there is actively growing scion, minor rot but maybe drought saved this from rotting more, now I see only growth.. ![]() I have now done more grafts, they are in humid still and I just wait how they do.. For these I have used clean knife.. Plant in picture have been done without any purpose to even success, blade was full of dirt, pereskiopsis was hard to cut, blade was not even best shape and not sharp.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/03/14 04:41 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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the key is in a vibrant pereskiopsis.
if you have booming peres growth, you can tack any cactus ive tested on it, and it will 'golf ball' fast. IMO, its all about the pereskiopsis. the actual graft, is a just a jockey on a peres horse. its more than a magic grow stick in a mud pot on a window sill. pereskiopsis should be grown so its vibrant and fast moving and go-go green.......... the plant is either thriving or its not. hydro, or dirt, or even rockwool, make pereskiopsis thrive, and grafts will boom. i can understand when peeps are proud of their grafts. be proud of your pereskiopsis also........... --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/03/14 04:56 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Pereskiopsis is anyway just a few small pots in my garden..
I'm collecting mostly own root lohps, trichocereus and mutants. And some succulents, anyway, it's fun to have some pereskiopsis, but I have not much of them but they are very cool and easy to propagate, just cut and plant to rocky soil, and water good, they keep on growing.. Anyway, I'm not much into grafting and caring of plants are part time hobby for me, I have so much another things to do I don't care much, cacti is perfect for me, they can be left without treatment long time. Still I can't understand, I had 4x 5cm wide pots, same size perekiopsis with 3 of them had growth tip, one had scion(in the picture I show) ...they were all in the same conditions, only the one with 6months old loph scion above it have survived, others was really dead, I can really see when plant is for real dead.. Only one of these small pereskiopsis survived was that with scion, only what stock have been stay green, rest of them turned to some kind of gray dead slim sticks... Pereskiopsis was all same clone, same size, only different was the one with scion was survived trough drought. I'm not sure but someway loph scion should have help stock to keep alive, they have all been 2weeks above heat pad inside "mini-greenhouse" that's why all was so much dried.. except same plant but it had scion on top of it. Why not graft can work both way and possible water in the small loph button have kept that one alive and all others was just dead to too long drought. I don't know why just this survived, there was nothing different in environment, soil, water, etc.. I'm not expert of pereskiopsis anyway, I have just one big pot full of some cuttings, then few small pots with cuttings and scions top of them, few days ago done grafts, just testing is it even hard, but I have no space to pereskiopsis grafts in my garden anyway... I don't even now have enough room for plants.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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almost everyone has space.
for a massive peres graft garden. thats sorta the point. cups, trays, water ,some nylon scrubs, LED lights. its pure box store democracy for supplies. just add shelf, and a seed and a twig....... --------------------
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San Mescalito Registered: 05/09/12 Posts: 3,224 Loc: Zone 13 |
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anna have you attempted using a soil-less medium rather than sponge to hold the pereskiopsis roots? I would think that if you had lots of fine feeder roots rather than the thicker main roots you could get faster and healthier growth. You could use some sort of volcanic rocks used in bonsai soil so it won't affect you ph and you get the finer roots.
I don't see a problem with your hydro grafts other than how shitty they look but you don't care about that so it doesn't matter
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stone eater Registered: 06/26/09 Posts: 16,318 Loc: Texas |
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Quote: Well I am insulted by this because I give all my info through experience not some phony bologna new age horse doodoo. You think of me as some low level grower but you ma'am are the chlamydia of the shroomery and I will start shit with you any chance I get. I consider my self a shot of penicillin. You lose your precious grafts outside due to them growing up too fast to develop an immune system. They cannot adapt at the rate you grow them. Now if you notice me not using big words is because I dont work my brain but I work my body. My job as a roughneck does that to me. Im big and very strong and when i get a chance my gentle side comes out when tending to my plants. Not a cynic like you lady. I wish to know how old you are. I believe you to be older in age but very immature. And in case you are wondering im 33 and very "hard grown". You are like your stupid grafts, very immature. Thats all I will say about that and please KBG, dont encourage this lunatic. ![]() Quote: ![]() I kept my mouth shut before but i feel people will back me up again and again until we get a cure for this disease -------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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You're only 33 ferrel?I always thought you were my age.Well,you're close enough
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Registered: 10/23/12 Posts: 163 Loc: Warlock, Arizona |
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Post deleted by chums of chance
Reason for deletion: Na Edited by chums of chance (07/08/18 03:08 PM)
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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Quote: ![]() Thank you. I was thinking the exact same thing. Building a little car with bloated lophs proves absolutely nothing about actual density or mass. It does prove that she's neurotic though. Quote: And she never will. She's too busy feeding her own ego. Quote: There are tons of EGers around here with tons and tons of lophs. Literally ALL of the soil grown ones look better than yours. This is a fact. Quote: It's the only way you know of because you're the noob. So far you've -Ferrel_human: one of the most knowledgeable cacti growers I know. Ferrel and I have been friends a long time and he has dedicated countless hours of his time away from work to the study, growing, propagation, and preservation of many plants. He gives advice plain and simple, how he sees it, from his experience. -Big L: Big L has been around probably longer than Ferrel and I combined and his knowledge speaks for itself. Look up past threads, you can't possibly say he's a noob. -modern.shaman: has also earned his stripes around here and has tons of very attractive own-root lophs. -Myself: Those that truly know me, in person, like Ferrel and only a handful of others around here, know that I make my entire living in the plant industry, making medicine for patients that need it. --- No one is insulting your methods Anne. You are the one that keeps choosing to get aggressive, even resulting to name-calling the moment that someone says your lophs look etiolated, etc. THEY ARE ETIOLATED!!! This is a fact! Like intelligentlife said, you would get a lot further by just simply trying to teach noobs, rather than trying to force your methods on extremely experienced growers that simply like growing in soil, the natural way. The way they've been growing for tens of thousands of years. I don't think you've ever going to get it, and I don't even know why I'm trying. You'll probably just keep trolling around from forum to forum, pissing ppl off with your bad attitude, getting threads locked, etc... Edited by theMallacht (01/04/14 03:35 AM)
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In tall buildings Registered: 02/11/09 Posts: 3,532 Loc: Luxury |
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I am not even offended. I am just passive aggressively feeding the troll, to help speed up the process of anne getting banned or just moving on.
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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I suppose I should have said "taken shots at" instead of offended.
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Can you grow this kind of lophs annie?
This is grown as grafted to size of 2inch, then later on degrafted and let plant grow own root. It's now ~4inch size peyote. Probably later money for me or I keep it as my own "trophy" These I have buy'd as they are l. koehresii 4 different seed grown plant so I can pollinate these together or try cross breeding to fricii and graft the koehres x fricii seedlings to pereskiopsis to get fast results. There I see potential with pereskiopsis, but I need mother plants, flowers, pollen, offshoots for cuttings, money.. I can use pollen from these to fricii and try to have hybrid seeds, then use pereskiopsis for them and degraft later on. However, I have not grown all my plants from seed, but I buy some plants to serve the job of mother plant so I can produce seeds constantly when it's growing season.. What bad you see 'bout buying peyote plants what another people have cultivated?? Maybe they're "mail trophy shit" but nice plants to produce seeds and then grow my own plants.. This is "mail trophy peyote" my mother plant for seed production, sometimes I take offshoots and root them as their own and later on sell the rooted buttons as peyote plants. Would be fun to see pictures of flowering plants from annie, pereskiopsis grafts are seen constantly. Show some flowers, they're sign plant is happy. is it? ![]() Water balloon graft.. ![]() Fricii Fricii albiflora I have got lots of seeds from these Most of plants in the pictures are sold forwards, some are not. I do some sort of business with "mail trophy cacti" and and sell cuttings, plants, grafts etc to people who want rare lophophora plants and I do profit. Is it bad or not? Who cares if people are happy to obtain rare plants and change them to money. Also seeds are worth of money. I'm the bastard annie hate, I have mail trophy plants, I sell mail trophy plants with profit.. In my country I can have big profit if I invest my own money to peyote or any kind of lophs. Some another more common cacti are not so expensive but I give them as gift to friends or family. Lohs and trichs are someway pure business for me and I help people who want rare plants.. But I sell only inside my country.. to my friends, they just want plants, I offer plants for them. There is two hard grown lohps from my seeds, size is very small for their age. Hard grown lohps are demanded, also they are good plants in there arctic, they always flower at summer, easier than mammillaria, even mammillarias are also easy flowering plants. Lophs for me are just simply profit € to my pocket.. oldest person who have buy'd "mail trophy peyote" from me are 50year old plant enthusiasts. Why I can't help them and do money? People who buy lohps from me don't know english language, they can't obtain on their own any rare lophs, what I do wrong by selling people what they want. I have not own nursery but I can sell these what ever price I ask, most want to buy local because there are no nurseries selling lohps nor trichs. They're € for me. Some plants I keep myself, some I don't.. Some people ask grafted peyote, small ones but stock needs to be permanent.. Some want own root cactus, no matter is it degrafted or not, it's money if plant is healthy. So my hobby is very different to yours, I sell there rare plants to people who understand their value as rare and expensive ornaments. Annie, if I really show pics from your plants to people who want to buy rare cacti, I'm sure they ask "do you have something more beautiful to sell" I don't say prices of plants what I can have selling them forwards, but it helps even it's not my main income. Just "hobby" similar to collecting cacti, some plants I keep, produce seeds, grow new from seed for my pleasure, "mother plants" or "mail trophys" I just grow some time and sell forwards or graft and sell or take offshoots and root them and sell them as "small peyote" ..If I sell cutting plants, people who buy them are aware they are not seed grown, and don't care about it. I don't want to behave offensively but annie, what I do wrong in your mind by collecting, selling, grafting and sell grafted plants, depends what people ask. Lophs sell best for collectors and as I said, most people don't manage english so I can help many people because there are not actually any good nursery who sell plants in my native language.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 01:30 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Annie I have one challenge for you. Please grow out some of your hydro graphs using the sun, or even CFL. I still believe your grafts are etiolating under the LED. I could certainly be wrong, and am not saying my garden doesn't have it's own issues. Personally it does not look like the "head" of your plant is developing as it should. Recently I posted pictures in the grafting competition. My grafts are from seeds, not pups, and appear more developed than what I have seen of yours? Again, please don't take this as an attack.
-------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 07:13 AM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Don't take this as an attack either, because it's not. This experiment isn't worth a shit without a control sample though. Without putting a verified water bloated loph under the same conditions you show in the OP, the entire experiment is invalid.
How do we know a verified water bloated loph wouldn't hold up under those same conditions as the lophs in your experiment? I sure as hell don't know the answer to that question because I don't grow water bloated lophs. I suggest finding someone that does so you can do a proper test with your buttons and a verified water bloated button. Only then will your results begin to have any significance. The buttons you grow are obviously sturdy, but to make any conclusions beyond that based on the info in your OP is completely misleading. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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wyrd bið ful aræd Registered: 05/12/09 Posts: 5,043 Loc: Perfidious Albio |
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As I stated in the last thread, before it fell apart.. Please, let us not personalize any discussion. Keep the focus on the plants/teks/etc. We are each responsible for our own words. Responding to insults with insults, will just result in both parties taking a holiday
--------------------
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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My observation on the water balloon effect. There are essentially 3 parts to the cross section of a cacti. The outer epidermis which is waxy and where photosynthesis takes place. The middle area is the spongy xylem and it's sole purpose is to store water. This is why cacti have ribs, so that when they shrink/swell from rain they do not split. Finally the inner ring is the pith or phloem, these "vascular bundles" transports vital nutrients throughout the plant also act as the plants "skeleton". Diffusion of these nutrients from the phloem>xylem>epidermis where its needed is very slow. Therefore a unique feature of cacti are cortical bundles, which transport the phloem to the epidermis at much greater speed. These are the light lines you often see if you cut just right.
![]() Some examples to compare to... ![]() "The underside of the harvested crown (left) shows a very narrow (2–3 mm wide) ring of bark at the perimeter of the cut surface, indicating that the cut was barely below the base of the crown, in the uppermost portion of subterranean stem. The cut surfaces match, except that crown parenchyma (left) is slightly greener due to higher chlorophyll content, whereas the subterranean stem parenchyma (right) is more yellowish. [Peyote harvesting Two young peyote crowns (“pups”) regenerating by lateral branching from the upper edge of the subterranean stem of a plant that was decapitated 7.5 months previously. This plant is the same individual shown in the previous picture. Each of the new crowns is ca. 1.5 cm in diameter." Yours... all Xylem and no Phloem ![]()
Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 04:28 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Don't mind me, I'm a humble worm farmer.
Notice the indisputable presence of a pith, along with numerous "squiggles" which are actually cortical bundles. Additionally you can see that the "chlorophyll" does not penetrate into the xylem, why would it? Chlorophyll is an essential part of converting light energy into sugar, and we all know that no matter how super duper fantastic your LED's are..light is not penetrating into the center of your cacti. Knowing that I could probably try to help you until i'm blue in the face, and you still wont "get it", I post this information to educate those who truly want to learn. Also, I don't want to encourage you to smash your babies again, but if you decide to.. please use a clear jug so that we may determine the actual amount of liquid inside? While I'm standing here pissing all over your Cheerios, please quit calling your setup hydroponics. This is an extreme stretch, your plants sit in stagnant water which contains no MICROnutrients. (I originally posted the wrong word) ![]() Peyotes are over 7000 years old hun, please show the elders some respect http://repository.tamu.edu/bitst Oh one last little thing you might not know about me... I actually get paid to conduct real plant research, not just pretend on the webz. I've won awards for my contributions, my work has been presented, accepted, and published by real Biologists. Don't ever stop learning. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/07/14 11:16 AM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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I agree 100% annie tek isn't proof anything unless you have something to compare..
Make one grow area over windowsill.. Make sure roots doesn't receive any light at all. For all places. Then same way but do it under LED and third under fluoro, maybe fourth under HPS or MH or both combined.. Use same tek, same ferts, all same, then show data what people can compare to different light source, report light cycles, water change times, everything.. If you push out only one test without anything where you can compare everything, it's worthless. No matter of test, annie you should know how science works, there are test subjects identical to each others but environment are different.. Go and test over one season, then show data.. As well as with cannabis growing, I don't see from your pics do your pereskiopsis roots receive light but no matter of plants, roots should never receive any light.. Also one compare what you should do, just use same clones but in fertile soil. When you have show me every possible way to grow with your tek, not only LED. Make yourself a test and arrange places: -greenhouse without extra light, only sun -windowsill without extra light, only sun. -windowsill with LED -windowsill with fluoro -Only LED -Only fluoro -LED+fluoro -HPS -HPS+MH -MH -windowsill with HPS/HM/HPS+MH also do hydro and soil. So you need 22 different environment with same specimens, grow 10-20months, collect data, see what is reasonable for money, what tek gives best looking and size scions etc.. Then I can have something where to compare LED tek. I don't want to start argue about LED tek and the way how it works but c'mon, if you know science and reveal "stunning information" without even few environments and lights and growing medium to compare, this basically doesn't proof anything. Only you can do this, Only you have same clones to do. Use windowsill test subjects with occasional sun light and ambient light, use windowsill with fluoro tube above, use closed space with LED and another space with fluoro and more, build room where is LED+fluoro. Show something where to compare before you start introduce the facts around.. IF you have done the test with different environments and light setups, show data what gives best growth etc.. There is more open questions than answers to your arguments annie, if you claim this is 100% truth and best way, where people can compare this? Before you claim everything is best like they are, build different rooms and windowsill places with same clones, wait good time and then see what kind of plants you got, in soil and hydro, under fluoro and LED, if possible try low power high pressure sodium and metal halide lights and probbaly combine the HPS and MH. There is reason why professional growers all over use HPS and MH light bulbs, LED tek doesn't have yet beat up these old fashion lights.. they have bad side, they generate heat but spectrum with both lights and bulbs designed for plants, just see what kind of different growth you can get, combine lights, use natural light, sun and probably combine sun and artificil lights.. Would be very interesting to see result from different setups before you claim your tek is the best.. And I mean there is shitloads of lighting setups how you can grow your plants. I have find long time ago from erowid a picture where is peyote with pereskiopsis.. These are afaik grown in greenhouse or similar environment to greenhouse.. ![]() These are Lophophora alberto-vojtechii if site information is correct.. These look like "water balloons" but look how authentic these plants looks, perfect specimens to degraft for example if someone want's ornamental loph cuttings. These seems to be plants what purpose is produce seeds for sale maybe.. I don't know much, I just find pics with google and wanted to show. This is not still same because of specimens isn't identical to yours. Also there is pic from greenhouse, lophs with pereskiopsis, use sun(if possible) for the sake of nice looking peyote! Then compare it to LED. ![]() I don't have copyrights to these photos, but these can be find from google, just wanted to show the power of sun, no need to use electricity if no need to heat up greenhouse. 100% natural grafting plants at soil. I see clearly these sun grown peyote plants have nice good skin and they fruit&bloom. In other way to say, they're happy scions. I think you got my point, try to get something to compare with your specimens.. sun, fluoro, led, combined lights, then show results what is best. Also I have yet not understand, where are you aiming with this tek? amount of dry peyote flesh? appearance of cactus? seed production? Afaik pereskiopsis are used as root stock in one good reason and it's fast seed production.. What is biggest diameter you have got to your lophs? and how about aerole hair? flowering? fruiting? Or do you have peyote specimens what doesn't have much of a hair no matter how strong light they have. Seriously, test your LED with SUN. or sun only, show something where to compare.. ![]() It's ok to do own tek's, say they're good and works, ofc your tek works but where to compare same clones? One environment and light setup doesn't proof much yet. This rise question to my mind, can I probably grow "adult" scions without no money and electricity at all and have scions ready for flowering and producing seeds.. I have yet not seen annie lophs flower or show signs of "mature" pup.. Ain't that should be the goal when pereskiopsis used, fast seed production and later on fast offspring growth, anyway no matter what they should be "mature" over the time and flower in order to say you have "happy scion" ...it's my opinion. Because I have just start some small project with lophs and pereskiopsis, I can later on show what I can manage to get with my setup, can I manage to get scion to flowering and produce seeds. I show later what I can do, I don't say I'm best with pereskiopsis and lophs, but I can show my project how they manage to go and grow.. I maybe use also greenhouse at summer for grafted plants, maybe.. however sun will be present when it's starts to show up above horizon. Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 05:04 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Lets dispel some more of your non-sense, this is getting to be kinda fun... Remember you challenged us to make you look like an ass.
Quote: 1) Your water probably weighs more than my dry dirt... definitely not a 3x margin. 2) My lighting setup is 8x24w 2ft t5, + 1 35w cfl = 227w. My grow area is 42x24 inches = 7 sq feet thus 32.4w/sq. ft. I could not find out how much area your 150w LED + supplemental lighting covered...doubt were anywhere close to double 3) The heat is beneficial because my cabinet is in a cold basement, the trapped heat after the light turns off keeps them snug. They're from the desert, they like heat. 4) Dirt issues? Like being able to produce my own from household food waste? Yeah let me tell you how terrible that is. 5) I bet I change my dirt a lot less than you change your water
-------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 08:01 AM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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Quote: next? ![]() your not suggesting they grow by magic and exceed known plant physiology? ![]() you guys are going to have to do better. XHTTL exists, and they thrive. its a biomass powerhouse, on a shelf. sorry guys , clay pots and dirt dont meet my performance needs. as for " experiments" pretty obvious your not reading the blog. theres experiments with all types of lights/ sun, and power levels. if ya havent seen it , ya should, many have. you would understand light better fer sure. bottom line, all my pics, and all my examples i grew myself. dont need the mail-ex and others web pics, to prove my hydro cacti graft grow............. Edited by anne halonium (01/04/14 08:05 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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I get my fill of daily Anne bs from shroomery, no need to waste my time on your blog too.
-------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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note above, you were debunked.
dont ask me to show you experiments, when ya wont click the blog full of em. maybe ill get out a microscope and some stains. might find some structure enhanced thru hydro. once again, nice try, someone give this guy a seed gift bag . --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/04/14 08:11 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Quote:
Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 08:48 AM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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cute ya grew a trichocereus tray.
novel distraction. now explain to me , what this has to do with XHTTL, or this? lets not over look your distorted post on xylems and pholems.. own up to your distortions now, this thread is about bydro loph taming. not worm taming. or trichocereus trays. fact is ya know nothing about hydro grafting, and not alot about cactus in general. you prove my point. --------------------
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyd
"Static solution culture In static solution culture, plants are grown in containers of nutrient solution, such as glass Mason jars (typically, in-home applications), plastic buckets, tubs, or tanks. The solution is usually gently aerated but may be un-aerated. If un-aerated, the solution level is kept low enough that enough roots are above the solution so they get adequate oxygen. A hole is cut in the lid of the reservoir for each plant. There can be one to many plants per reservoir. Reservoir size can be increased as plant size increases. A home made system can be constructed from plastic food containers or glass canning jars with aeration provided by an aquarium pump, aquarium airline tubing and aquarium valves. Clear containers are covered with aluminium foil, butcher paper, black plastic, or other material to exclude light, thus helping to eliminate the formation of algae. The nutrient solution is changed either on a schedule, such as once per week, or when the concentration drops below a certain level as determined with an electrical conductivity meter. Whenever the solution is depleted below a certain level, either water or fresh nutrient solution is added, A Mariotte's bottle, or a float valve, can be used to automatically maintain the solution level. In raft solution culture, plants are placed in a sheet of buoyant plastic that is floated on the surface of the nutrient solution. That way, the solution level never drops below the roots." I learned how to root a pineapple top in the 6th grade, I must have used your tek. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 10:14 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Quote: See this is my only issue with you, you want us to prove you wrong, but as soon as we try you back pedal worse than a Nigerian scammer. Your gallon of bleach could have been empty, no clue where you got this picture from, please provide photo documentation for this in this thread. I'm not an idiot to think that your cacti has 0 phloem, but the health of the cacti in the pictures I highlighted are certainly questionable. I used YOUR pictures, I don't know what the insides of the rest of your cacti look like. All the information that is there is still as true as it was hours ago. Also I thought this thread was about grafts in bog-like conditions, at one point you said I can just plop any seed onto the top. Why discriminate now? You accuse us (me?) of mail ordering everything, so I showed you tons of seedlings. I don't recall ever seeing Anne ever do anything with seeds, not even on her infamous blog? The few cacti that I currently have in winter dormancy were all traded/gifted, and I'm sorry you can't just raise a named clone from seed. Wanna see my astro or ferro graph ? You claim that your method is at least 2x as good as dirt, in several categories but have failed to provide substantial proof. I feel I have done an acceptable job of backing my side.Anne I am not entirely against your tek, I just still fail to see the benefit. I would certainly love to pack more room into my jam packed cabinet, and your ideas have certainly made me think. My original intention was only to offer you some of my knowledge, just as you did us. However, you can not dispute that your grafts look abnormal. Your periskiopsis roots are not getting ANY oxygen after about 2 hours of changing the water, so for the other 9.9 days they are stagnant. If the swamp grafts grow normal under other lighting than you know your LED either working better or worse than expected. I appreciate your contributions to this community, but can not help but offer a contrasting view when such startling claims are being made... Periskiopsis grow.. like a damn weed.. whether illuminated in a window sill, outside, CFL, LED, or sharks with lasers on their heads, and their respective grafts typically do just as well. However, plants need several Micro and Macro nutrients. http://soils.wisc.edu/facstaff/b If you want optimal yields, you need optimal conditions, and your wide off the mark. </debate> Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 10:23 AM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Do I understand right anne doesn't break the water surface to get oxygen in water?
Howcome anything like that can be said to be hydro if you don't pump air to water or use somekind of tek what breaks the water surface and therefor gives more benefit. I have grown cannabis in hydro, there need to be constantly pump inside the water container to make water good and rich with oxygen. However, I do unerstand really these pereskiopsis sit on still water with roots got light? Isn't the rule for hydro, no matter of plant that water needs be constantly on the move to have oxygen in there, also no light to roots. OR Do I have miss something? I understand if I root cutting in still water tray, but I would never think of say it's "hydro" if plant sit on still water 10days, is it? I doubt, most plant doesn't even tolerate or suffer if water doesn't have good supply of oxygen what should be done with air pipes and pump or drop water pump to bigger tray what causes bubbles and therefor add oxygen to water.. Do anne really keep pereskiopsis on STILL water 10days?? it's not hydro.. Well.. Maybe passive hydro.. But I have never heard of hydro where water is still even for one hour. Also why anne use tray's with transparent sides? Roots should be in dark and have oxygen rich water.. Water goes to shit and plant does't benefit everything if you don't really break the surface of water to get oxygen there.. I have build lots of hydros for cannabis.. Easiest way is just drop water pump to water container and let it bubble there, it's enough to supply oxygen to water, I have never heard there is hydro where water stands still in transparent container.. Maybe it's "passive-hydro" or cutting root container? I mean I have build "bubbler" to get oxygen to water. Two plants in soil, one in the middle in hydro-bubbler. I have realize long time ago water needs to be even have bubbles constantly to let plant benefit from it.. Even one day still water, plants doesn't like it. They need oxygen in water and in soil. no doubt. Plant sit on container where roots doesn't have light, there is fertilizers and water pump drop to bottom of container to make sure there is enough oxygen in water. Hydro or bubbler or what you want to call it, it's not it if water stands still... Or do you ever bubble your water anne? do you let pereskiopsis roots to have light? I have only seen hydro is good what comes to harvest of plant material is proper bubbler/hydro and different plant. Someone tell me do I understand right anne keep pereskiopsis at still standing water 10days? How's the oxygen supply to water without breaking the surface of water constantly for example with water bubbles what can be done easily and I see hydro means water have oxygen supply.. Right? or why my cannabis grows more better when I have water pump bubbling the water to make sure there is oxygen? Should this same thing to do to pereskiopsis instead of let them stand on still water 10days, damn.. I use still water only for cuttings, not for cultivation because water needs oxygen if plant needs to be healthy enough. Sorry I don't understand english properly, it's not my native language, but I understand annie doesn't make anything over 10days to make sure water have enough oxygen for plant roots? Why containers are transparent, root's doesn't need light, or are they transparent because you can photo the roots? Hookahhead, explain me in nuttshell, do anne have pereskiopsis in still water 10days? All common sense that should not be called even hydro if water is still and not taken care of oxygen supply with someway.. I maybe miss something but do I figure out right, 10 day still water without any care of oxygen supply? Why? why? oxygen to roots benefit's pereskiopsis as well as any plant. OR can I even say standing still water is hydro, it's just a bottle for cuttings, not hydro. Right? ![]() Cannabis plant is mine in my own build bubbler without no water pipes, water pump only cause emotion and bubbles to water to make sure there is oxygen, that was good stuff MJ from that plant.. Anyway, I was tired of using hydro/bubbler, I like soil, it's easy with cacti and with cannabis, but I wanted to try bubbler for cannabis and I understand plant doesn't like if water stands still without any equipment for it.. roots need oxygen, not light.. OR what makes pereskiopsis hydro different to cannabis bubbler? ...Smaller plant tray and different ferilizers? I have understand and I do things like this: -Still standing water is just for rooting cuttings, there is no oxygen supply for roots, no need yet. -When plant have roots to still water, it have to be moved to container where is oxygen supply to water -So.. "anne hydro" is just water bottle for rooting cannabis/chili/pereskiopsis/cucu IMO Hydro in cultivation means there are oxygen supply also, otherwise it's just a water container where cuttings can be rooted.. huh? My cannabis plant sucked 30liter of water every day at the end, Still I don't kept in in still standing water.. I used water pump to make dark container with bubbling fertilized water.. Without the pump I don't think so I could manage to grow one plant that size.. I know all about hydro-growing, what makes pereskiopsis so different it can be used with different rules and forget oxygen supply to water? once every 10day water change ain't enough IMO. However I find learning and care of hydro farm was so big work, I am satisfied to soil grown cannabis and as well pereskiopsis.. But my collection of plants are way more than loph and pereskiopsis. these species are just small part of whole collection. I'm just curious to graft plant to pereskiopsis but building hydro for them? One reason I don't care to build pereskiopsis hydro is simple, too much work wihout nothing benefit, best ornaments grow in soil.. Also weed is as good in soil than hydro, hydro cannabis are just fast way to get some. But rules of hydro-farming should not be different to pereskiopsis or cannabis? Right? Soil I still love, just want to share my soil grow, some of these are re-vegetate growth cannabis to get fast new MJ from harvested plant ![]() Peace ![]() Everyone do like they want, I don't mind of it but I'm confused why pereskiopsis hydro works without oxygen supply to roots? What makes it so different pereskiopsis doesn't need oxygen over 10days? Should you anne try to supply oxygen to roots and hide light from roots, maybe have better results.. I don't say you don't have good result but just for improve your tek?
Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 11:46 AM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Addressing the light/root issue. While some plant's don't like having their roots exposed, others don't seem to mind. Why people lightproof hydro setups is because of algae. You create the perfect environment, its warm, nutrient abundant and light rich. However the algae will compete for nutrients/clog your pipes and hoses. Another suprise! We don't see any signs of algae in any of Anne's cups. She probably tidy's them up before breaking out the camera. Let a glass of drinking water sit in the window for 10 days...
-------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Hydrogen peroxide every 10days when water is changed?
I have never jammed my water pump when I tried hydro-bubbler tho. Anyway I just saw it needs too much work so I have move back to soil cultivation of all plants.. Mostly I grow today edible plants in greenhouse, I root cucumber and chili in regular drinking glass, I just make cover from foil, the puncture holes, and drop cutting to still standing water, when there is roots I move plant to small pot of rich soil and fertilizers and minerals. During the time normal plant rooting, there are no fertilizers or anything, just pure water. I have still find out the fact if light achieve to reach in to fertile water, there will grow algae and moss.. Hydrogen peroxide wash of container remove this problem tho.. My normal cutting bottles doesn't need anything special compared to anne hydro I see. I just don't use fertile water for cuttings. But no matter what I try to block lights from roots, they are purposed to be underground, roots doesn't need light, basically it's pointless to even use transparent containers in hydro cultivation, if still standing water can be called even hydro. IMO it's not hydro without oxygen supply..
Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 11:54 AM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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you guys need pages of gibberish,
to explain your fantasy. all i need is a few of MY pics, of cactus I GREW. ( as opposed to web pics and glamor shots of mail cacti.) ive made my point to all rational readers. ill leave you guys to wind this one up with delusional posts and bizzare insults..... it has become more than apparent, why i can do these types of things, and others are left stupified and apoplectic . and, why others are so filled with fear and hate. its saddening sorta. ![]() im off to yacht club............... shall ill pencil ya all in for the " aerophora X thread"? --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/04/14 03:41 PM)
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Registered: 05/29/04 Posts: 17,235 |
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Noone is filled wit fear and hate, you are just filled with your ego and your blind to see people try to start conversation and it's common all things will be going to be questionable, you are not god who doesn't need to explain and answer questions. Understand it. Noone fear you or your tek.. You can't understand people. Lot's of text of questions and only you post back is things about you you you and you.. and you.. You turn yourself everything back to you as offensive without answering a single question or suggestion. This starts again to run circle and you start post same pics all over again and leave questions without answer.
![]() Noone insult, peeps want to say opinion and advice.. Also you have skip most of my important questions and don't have answered to me what define basically your tek is it worth it or not. ..You probably never answer so why to believe you? You push your ego out and ignore important questions about your tek.. Yield of harvest, potency, flowering, fruiting, etc.. Noone of these you have not say a word, just blame peeps of insulting. ![]() What you trying to proof if you don't even answer most important questions I have asked several times? I just wonder why you don't care oxygen supply to roots in the water and then say your tek is hydro in that word what hydro cultivation really means. Also you tek is just not good for any kind o ornamental purposes, too much work and money to silly 2cm buttons without single flower. Your tek works, okey, I understand... but what's the point of spent money and build your plant mutilation tek laboratory if you don't say what for you grow small immature scions. I see you have just pereskiopsis in fertile still water and it's not yet full hydro and doesn't give full benefits of hydro-cultivation. I just find out I root my china rose cuttings using just same tek you grow lophs. Only different way is I don't use fertilizers in water but it's standing still water in glass with cap on it and cuttings put trough the holes to root. You can't separate advice and insult from each other annie. Have you tested to supply oxygen to water to improve the growth rate of pereskiopsis or not? If you see everything as insult, then so be it.. I just really don't see you have full hydro without providing the oxygen as well to the water jar where your plants standing, your tek is same what I use for rooting normal plants in glass jar, nothing more. ![]() Insult is totally different, peeps try to go dialog and say their opinion, you got insulted about that. Without another peeps want to insult you. Your skills for dialog are lacking, why only you can say your advice as form of opinion and other people opinion to your advice are suddenly insult? No one is perfect, peeps wonder why you don't have taken care of main part of what hydro-cultivation really is... I'm not same opinion with you about your tek.. it's not "full hydro" if plants standing in still water.. hydro-cultivation needs oxygen supply to water constantly to increase growth speed. I know these plants like any other cutting of plant survive 10 days or even months in standing still water without taking care of oxygen in to water.. My point is, it's not hydro-cultivation if you are not supply the oxygen to water via air- or water pump and use running water.. your tek is just water bottle with plants basically. Only difference I see to tek I use to root cucumber, china rose, chili, cannabis, etc is you use fertilized water and pereskiopsis. I don't call that system hydro even plants stand on water. Hydro is system where are running water to make sure oxygen mixed to water.. No matter what I just don't care anymore, You don't even give answers I have tried to ask, only reply same photos and constantly push up your ego.. What for you even do these threads over and over again with same questions without any of your answers, you just blame everyone attack you and feels your ego is bigger than whole community there... I'm tired of this bullshit, your tek is not bullshit, this dialog is because you answer like some ego-bot spamming same pics and same insults. I don't even understand what are you after with this because you don't answer obvious, simply questions totally based on this tek. And treads start going pointless circle again. Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 05:11 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote:
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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![]() Next time tell us something new, you have blog, cult, ego, reputation and big farm of hydro-cacti. When asking about the benefits of your great tek and fancy equipment in case of sharing the professional information you don't give a shit to even answer basic questions about what you actually even do with your plants... ....why bother to start a thread about your work if you don't even know how to talk about the context of thread?
Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 06:43 PM)
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Animal Registered: 05/06/12 Posts: 334 Loc: Land of the Midn Last seen: 7 years, 7 months |
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It's about time that someone bust the myth that bloated peyotes can't be used as tires for toy cars! About bloody time! And since carrots can be used for it as well, we must assume the peyotes are just as solid as the carrots. Marvelous research report! Bravo!
-------------------- I'll make sense when I run out of lemons. Until then I'll make lemonade.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Finally Anne, we agree on something! I have an extremely difficult time reading any of intelligentlife's posts. I know he means well.. but it seems after the first few lines I become confused or feel like I am reading the same thing over and over? Either way love you both! Grow on
-------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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Quote: While I have agreed with almost everything you've said thus far, I gotta step in here man. I've been working in the hydroponics industry, from product developement for companies, as well as some of the largest hydroponics shops in SoCal, giving advice on the floor, etc, for many years now. As well as being an accomplished prop 215 grower with around 8 years of growing under my belt. Well, there's my credentials since this seems to be so important in this thread. ![]() Anyway, the reason people lightproof rooms has little to nothing to do with algae. In fact, algae is not even a problem. One of my horticulture teachers actually got irritated with a student one time during a very basic cloning lab we were doing because she was trying to get rid of the algae on the top of her container. He said that algae eats so little, and doesn't go deep enough to harm 90%+ of most plants. I've probably cloned over 2000 plants or more in rockwool over the years and I stopped caring about algae a long time ago. I get 100% success in rockwool, and by the time they're rooted like a bloody claw out the bottom there are little to no yellow leaves whatsoever on them. Growers lightproof rooms because ideally, outside weather permitting, you want to run the lights at night. So if you completely lightproof you're room you can accomplish this because plants don't "know" when the real day outside is. Running the lights at night saves a shitload of money on electrical costs, I've seen this in my own trials. Particularly in SoCal where our "harshest" winters consist of a nightly low of around 40-50 degrees. ![]() Anyway, my 2 cents. Continue logically and scientifically debunking Anne and everything she stands for.
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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hookahhead, basically there is no need to understand it
it's just messy bullshit.. I just want answer to context of the thread from person who have start this thread. And my questions to annie, what are totally inside the context the thread. So I assume annie can answer without problems at all.... How much yield of dry peyote you have approx in one season? What is the potency and size of your buttons? (dried) How long it takes time to grow peyote from seed to flower? How any ornamental grower benefit from this tek with LED? How much seeds you harvest over one season? Why spent lots of money to LED if I have lots of windows around the house and basially I don't need electricity to grow peyote scions above pereskiopsis? annie, you are willing to introduce a tek, why you can't answer questions about this and only this context? I just asked simple few questions what are totally inside the context of your own made thread of grafted grown peyote vs hard grown "myth".. just please answer the context of your own started thread. OR have you even understand someone can ask these questions? I understand from topic tittle you challenge common peyote cultivation with pereskiopsis to get as much edible buttons as possible? Peace, is this clear now? Edited by intelligentlife (01/04/14 07:32 PM)
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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Good thing I refreshed the page. You beat me to it intelligentlife. I was in the middle of compiling and line itemizing your questions, as well as others into a bulleted list. Let's see if she answers them now.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Thank you Mallacht, I definitely stand corrected. I have no shame admitting when I am wrong, and know that there are people who know much more on various subjects than me. Now that a proper and reasonable argument has been made, the learning process happens! I will no longer spread that bit of misinformation because I have been corrected; it's a good thing! Thats what this community is about. Experimentation, testing, and sharing our findings. I have learned so much about shit I had no clue I never even knew about thanks to this place. I lurked more than I posted in the beginning because I was still learning and trying my own things. However, as been repeated several thousand times in this thread by now... Anne many of us feel that you make wild claims, and we are simply trying to figure out what the hell your actually doing. We are all just as curious as you are, and if you successfully debunk our questions, I am sure you will see many more gardens like yours pop up... I certainly can't argue that your now propagating cacti, and none of us here should be the slightest bit upset about that. Your lophmobile certainly has us scratching our heads, but it was cute and clever, and I had never seen that before (man if I had a dollar for every time I said that about something on the internet..) However it would be much more enjoyable if I could take you seriously and didn't think you were a crackpot or trolling us. My frustration is that you refuse to address possible problems/limitations with your system and currently your the only one who has answers... You may feel like your addressing us.. but go back and read through all of this BS again. I don't think you've answered any HELPFUL questions about your method. You refer us to your blog, but all I can find is short blurbs, which again convey very little useful information. I may not be using it properly, but where is the real content? You said that you have grown hydro lophs under CFL, can you please show us some pictures and discuss that project with us a little more? Have you successfully converted anyone, and is there any chance they can chime in on the subject? We're not rejecting you dear... we just want some stronger evidence before we all switch to ugly bog grafts.
Ms. halonium, if you choose to ignore everything else I have said I will not be bothered, but please please please understand that plants sitting in a stagnant 10-10-10 solution is a serious and easily corrected hindrance... I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to make these changes aside from stubbornness. At the very least, add a little bit of kelp? Holy wormpies batman... what if I run a small test along side you Anne? I could give it a whirl using worm casting tea? Then at least we may have something that your willing to discuss? I am sure 1 or 2 cups wouldn't take up much space in many of our gardens. Who's with me, maybe we can tweak things for better efficiency. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/04/14 09:50 PM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Personally I like Anne's work. I've known her for several years and I consider her a friend. Her delivery style can be abrasive sometimes but IMO she has some interesting ideas and can be pretty easy to get along with when she's not on the defensive. I hope things stick to the technical rather than the personal as they have been for the last little while so that the thread doesn't get locked like the last one.
Basically her approach centers around scalability and efficiency, and her writings got me thinking in that way as well when I was starting out with grafting. I don't always end up using the same methods, but her writings were an inspiration to try to do things on the biggest scale my circumstances would allow, beginning with mass propagation of pereskiopsis. Mass grafting is a different approach from purist-style hard growing for a strict natural aesthetic, but the two are complementary as most here would probably agree. The aeration question is a good one I think, why still water instead of a bubbler type setup or whatever (or some kind of substrate instead of DWC.) Anne's explanation is that the micro root hairs are easily damaged by too much water movement, but you have to wonder how the roots get sufficient oxygen under this regimen. An aeroponic setup as mentioned would address this problem but it sounds finicky to me (nozzles to get clogged or whatever.) Lightweight airy substrates with moderate moisture retention seem like a good compromise to me. No need to submerge the roots for more than a brief flood and drain cycle, and after that you have good aeration and moisture to the roots for a decent while. The "right" substrate can act as a buffer for moisture, keeping things in a desirable range more of the time with less fuss. Plus you can water a whole tray easily at once with flood and drain or dip and drain methods. Regarding lighting and plant shape, the term "etoliation" gets thrown around a lot in the cactus world. Personally I don't consider skinny growth to be true etoliation necessarily. If you have ever really neglected the fuck out of a cactus, the new growth is near-white and incredibly easy to damage through handling. A skinny but green cactus is not really the same thing. Oblong growth habits may well be advantageous from a perspective of efficiency of biomass increase for all I know. With LED a lot depends on the color balance from what I gather, if you want them flatter you use more blue. There are other growers who like LED for cacti as well. GGTBod is one who some here may recall, lives in the UK and grows fairly natural style. He switched to mostly posting on Myco-tek and his LED related stuff can be found there. There are other growers there doing the same thing and some other names people might recognize from here. "Weird" growth habits are what they are though, you may not like the look but the plant is increasing in mass and creating new tissue (and new areoles, each of which is a potential new plant.) If desired you can always degraft buttons and grow them to approximate a natural look (at least above ground) over a fairly short timeframe. Same goes for tissue culture, the intermediate stages look pretty freaky but it's a means to an end. Personally cheap T8 lights and sunlight have served me well, but more efficient lights would help me scale things up with my off-season indoor operation without pissing off my landlord over the lighting bill. Unfortunately my equipment budget right now is pretty much nil but some high-output, blue-heavy lights in a strip light format would be pretty cool to mess around with as a T8 replacement for shelves.
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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I have eventually found some time to sit down and read this thread and post before it gets locked.
First off I would like to say that I have never said that I am a "Pro" grower or that I am one of the best. I am someone who enjoys growing cacti among many other plants and I am still learning all of the time. I have always posted the best of my plants/grafts and the worst this way I hope that at least it shows the highs and lows of what I do and that people can gain something from this. I am very time limited due to work and family commitments and so my setup has to be as easy care as possible. I realize that I don't need to explain all of this to most of the people here but Anne is not a normal EG member. I am also to old to have some smart arse treat me like a child I wont except it in the real world and I certainly wont except it here. Ok down to the reason for this post. I have asked a number of times some questions that never get answered instead there are posts written on the "blog" that are ether not true or are slander towards the people on this forum. Recently asked this Quote: dirt garden weighs 3x, uses 2x electric, double heat, has all its dirt issues, and can only do about 60% capacity of PP5 cups in same a footprint 1.5x! translation, team annie way= less space, way less weight, way less power, way less heat way more lophs .....+/- known max speeds. How did you arrive at these claims. Dirt garden weighing 3 x your way : Is this based on 6 inch clay pots with one graft in each. Give us some real weights and sizes of your containers and weights with grafts and full water. Double electricity usage : What sort of total wattage are you using per square foot of grow area. Double heat: I don't see an issue with heat. It actually helps to have heat generated by your lights as you don't have to heat in winter. How many grafts are you growing per square foot and how do you change the water in the cups and you say you do this every ten days. Do you need to top them up in between. I am all for innovation but claims about performance over other growing methods need to be backed up with facts other wise it is just a show not a grow. The result was a typical Anne rant so I did my own calculations. Anne,s As Anne doesn't give much info I had to do my own calculations which is only water weight and does not include container weights 1 pint jars half full = 240ml 12 x 240 = 2880ml = 2.88kg Tray 4 deep 3 wide 4 x 3.9 = 15.6 inch = 396.24mm 3 x 3.9 = 11.7 inch = 297.18mm 4 grafts per container 12 containers per tray 12 x 4 = 48 Mine 1 x 50mm pot with hydrated soil 90grams Tray size 350mm x 300mm = 30 pots 30 x 90 = 2.7kg 4 trays per shelf = 120 pots per shelf ( shelf 1200 x 400 ) Now that is not 3 x as posted in the quote above Next electricity : Again we don't know for certain what lights Anne is talking about as the recent pics show 4 over head lights but no flat panels. Anne's grow area from my calculations above is approximately 600mm x 400mm. I have no interest in wading through Led power usage but I would very much doubt that my 4 foot fluro' use double the power that the Anne setup uses as my two 37 watt fluros lights cover a 1200 x 400 shelf. If we take it one step further one of my shelving units uses 6 x 37 watt tubes so a total wattage of 222 watts covering an area of 1200mm x 1200mm. The other thing that is not taken into account is that shelving unit has a footprint of 1200mm x 400mm and a total height of 1830mm with one shelf used as storage so the area that I grow in is only 1450mm high for three shelves. And lastly heat: This one is so simple I though Anne would get it but no she claims it is an expensive way to heat. ![]() The heat is fee !!!!!!!!! the lights produce it when they are on. My light keep my grow room at 25 deg C during winter and my room normally doesn't normally get above 45 deg C during summer. This in a small room/closet I have built inside of my shed. I will be back with more but I have to partake in real life things at the moment. Cheers Got
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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The next installment.
Anne Quote its a better "grow show" than you gotz, if ya wanna reduce it to that. keep it up, and ill publish a series of pics, detailing fungi, dirt, PH , lighting issues, and root problems, and ill ask the readers to scan your threads for matching examples. and, thats entertianment. As I have previously said I am not the one touting my self as the pere/graft messiah you can post whatever photos of mine that you want here. I have nothing to hide here is a link to my gallery Got's Gallery If you really want to go though my other stuff you will find me under the same user name at the corroberee. Here is the link http://www.shaman-australis.com/ Another Anne Quote *note your graft contest and loph growers unite thread. this grow was time stamped in front of your face. i got the pics, i got the rulers my shit is time stamped all over the web. ( were wise to that angle now goonthen, too late) I have know idea what you are going on about. If you are saying I am posting old photos as new ones you are so far off its a joke. This has to be the best one that you have come up with yet. I initially thought you have to be taking the piss but then you post it on you blog of untruths as fact. If a graft has been grown under ideal conditions it will look like the cactus it is supposed to be minus the roots. It doesn't grow parts of the root no matter how much you want to convince yourself and your followers. I can guarantee that you will not get any experienced grower to agree with your distorted view on this. Questions that never get answered Why don't you post photos of flowering grafts Why don't you post photos of grafts bigger than 30mm. If you have been so successful for so long you should have hundreds that are 50mm plus with multi heads How long have you been growing in these pint cups How long does it really take to change the water and clean the cups each time (the two trays or don't you know because you have only run it for a month or so) How many watts is the setup using with the two trays of cups Why do you continue to post photos of grafts from your old setup and not big healthy grafts from you new pint cup setup.
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Quote: Regarding that point, not all of what is underground in an old habitat or root-grown plant is root tissue. A substantial portion is actually stem. While it lacks chlorophyll as root tissue does because it's underground, it's still stem tissue. On Anne's diagram my guess at the root collar point for the habitat plant drawing would be a bit higher than where she marked the second line, but I see what she's saying.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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I see what she is saying as well, but she is also still sadly mistaken. The "underground" stem grows like that due to the absence of light as you stated. So why would you expect it to grow like that in the presence of light? And etiolation is not just a term we toss around. The white growth at the tip is from EXTREME etiolation, not just moderate. Any plant grown in sub optimal lighting conditions will in an attempt to reach the light. Put some mature tricho's under floro, sure they'll grow and be green.. but the will also etiolate. Peyotes are not columnar. It is quite obvious, whether anyone cares to admit it or not, that her plants are stretched. This is not due to the fact she is bog-grafting, its due to light. If she would just grow some hydro graphs under "traditional" lighting methods, we would put this issue to rest. Sadly, while I feel we have been more than accommodating to her rants, she continues to ignore the tangible evidence we request. The only benefit that I can see to growing stretched plants like this, is the extra space between ribs would make it easier to take cuttings of. However, even with 5 or 6 grafted seedlings, you will have plenty of pups to keep you busy.
The team Annie Second, if she is that concerned about air bubbles destroying her micro root hairs, id seriously love to know how she changes the water without inflicting more damage. Ignoring oxygen for a second, because the plant has other ways to deal with that. Why does she continue to ignore MICRONUTRIENTS, besides stupidity and stubbornness? -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 10:39 AM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Most of the definitions of etoliation that I've seen are closer to what you describe as extreme etoliation (i.e. extremely pale yellow to white growth from chlorosis.) I don't believe it's technically correct to refer to green but skinnier than normal plants in this way. Personally I prefer to grow them fat though.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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etiolation:
A pathological condition of plants that grow in places that provide insufficient light, as under stones. It is characterized by elongated stems and pale color due to lack of chlorophyll. Seriously, your trying to disqualify me on a technicality? They don't simply grow taller and skinnier because they feel like it, it is because they are not receiving adequate light. Once proper lighting is provided, they quickly start to fatten up again. Because we don't grow under rocks sufficient lighting vs optimal lighting is what were discussing here.. not the absence vs presence of light. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 11:06 AM)
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Registered: 05/29/04 Posts: 17,235 |
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Good morning yal
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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"Pale" is pretty vague but numerous different definitions I've seen refer to a near-total lack of chlorophyll with pale yellow to white growth. Anne's plants are definitely skinnier than many people grow them but I don't think they exhibit a lack of chlorophyll. Etoliation is a potentially life-threating condition, but suboptimal lighting conditions are mostly an aesthetic problem. Some will think it's ugly but the plant is putting on mass and is not super vulnerable to mechanical damage like truly etoliated growth is. Blue-red balance is a big factor in shape too apparently, overall amount of light is not the only factor.
Here are some pics of my own plants under 6500K T8 with some side sunlight, fat but a fairly limy green compared to full-sunlight grown plants. Outside over the summer they went a lot darker. Here they are back under T8 and off the grafts the next fall, still pretty dark: IMO T8 is a good solid choice, they are very cheap and moderately efficient. Sunlight is great but in some places it's a legal risk to have them outside. LED I have not used but my impression is that you have to spend quite a lot to get decent power. Going blue heavy apparently helps if you want fat growth (as in the fluorescent world where higher color temps are supposed to help this.)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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The problem you are referring to is the one you are already familiar with, chlorosis. It would not make sense for a plant to not produce any chlorophyl in the presence of light, since this is how the plant gains it's energy. The reason chlorosis is potentially deadly, is simply because the plant will expend all of its stored energy putting on new growth in hopes of eventually reaching the light. Because shades can vary from plant to plant, it is kind of mute to get hung up on this. What I am trying to point out is that I believe her plants are stretched. Would you prefer I go back and change "etiolatiated" to "stretched"?
I agree with you that it is spectrum + strength that causes this. From what I can see, her current lighting setup not providing optimal conditions. We all agree that her specimen are atypical, correct? Yet she still believes this abnormal growth is due to the potential of bog grafts. In a real scientific scenario, we need a baseline to compare to. Therefore, it would be ideal to see bog grafts under "traditional" lighting, and LED, as well as dirt grafts in the same lighting conditions. This is how you assess which variables are actually responsible for your results. Until this evidence is provided (by her or us), her wild claims are psuedo-science at best. As myself and others have pointed out numerous times, she refuses to answer legitimate questions and questionably seems to lack photo evidence of the forest of peyotes. Nice pics by the way :thumb up: -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 12:16 PM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Yeah stretched or elongated compared to sunlight grown plants as a reference point seems fair. I guess what I'm saying is that whether it's something to care about is largely a matter of personal preference. Some find the appearance of spherical pereskiopsis grafts to be repulsive compared to root-grown plants, but it certainly serves a purpose in the propagation toolkit. Similarly plant tissue culture looks ugly as fuck to many people. Personally I've more or less given up on growing conventionally attractive Trichocereus without pinch points, over the winter it's too warm inside and far too cold outside to get them properly dormant. They still increase in size every year though and I'm happy with that.
Red-heavy strong light may produce rapid and fairly healthy but relatively elongated growth, and as the grower that may or may not be appealing to you. Not-so-strong light will produce similar shaped growth not quite as rapidly, but above a certain threshold the plants will still be reasonably healthy and resilient. From a kWh to biomass efficiency standpoint it may be attractive to use such lighting regimens though, I do not have the relevant experience and data to say. I have seen photos of Anne's plants elsewhere that were grown under blue heavy light and had very flat tops, and I have seen pics from other LED growers that don't look stretched either, so I believe Anne's assertions that pretty much any desired shape can be produced under LED. LED lighting is attractive to me in some ways because it has the potential for great efficiency since you can target specific light frequencies. You don't have to waste energy making e.g. green light that will just be mostly reflected anyway. The cost still seems to be quite high though and I have very little spare money to put down on equipment to experiment with it.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Psi, your posts are educated and respectful, thank you. I am not debating the potential of either LED or "hydro" grafting and would love to see more work. What I find hard to swallow is that she believes that she has some new age super technique, but can't seem to support any of her claims. If there is even a moderate increase in efficiency, I'd love to know about it. Do her stretched plants really have more biomass? From my observations, I don't believe so. If you check out her pictures, she uses pups and provides a time frame of 75 days from grafting. Yet I have grafted seedlings that are larger and more developed than hers in the same time frame? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that one, because I know grafted pups explode. If she TRUELY wants to quell the nay-sayers, a few simple tests would suffice.
The experienced growers who chimed in were simply expressing their concerns and questions. This was met with abrasion. If one is seeking peak performance, then why not address simple but serious limitations? Sadly, I feel as though she is actually hindering her pursuits with her CURRENT method. She absolutely cannot debate that her plants don't need other nutrients besides NPK. If there are LED grows that are not elongated, her lighting is obviously subpar. As far as over-wintering large columnars, I believe water is more critical than temperature or light. Now this is only my theory/understanding of the issue, but cacti are essentially water balloons. A water balloon can not stretch unless more water is added to it. Cacti are great at retaining water and energy, as can be seen by neglecting a cutting for over a year, and it will still root. In low light periods, they will elongate to reach the sun. This is natural because they obviously do not want to be shaded out by others for the valuable energy from the sun. Because they do have a good bit of stored energy, and moderate water supply.. they etiolate to try to get out of unfavorable conditions. The lack of chlorophyl is to preserve precious energy until the time is right. However, if your cacti is already limited in water, it will not continue to grow from the apical meristem, but instead use that energy towards root development to seek water. Again this is just my hypothesis, but I feel that it is at least reasonable. The reason we like to avoid elongation is not entirely ascetic, but structural as well. Matthew 7:24-27 ESV “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 01:27 PM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Yeah she is not the most diplomatic about responding to criticism, and often lately she is on the defensive because people bring up beefs from other threads and other sites. I hope that dies down because I like having her around and things are supposed to stay pretty civil in the EG. Her personality tends towards hyping things up and self-promotion (IMO this enthusiasm is part of the fun of reading her stuff) but really she is giving an example of one way to grow, and everyone's methods are going to have some shortcomings.
The micronutrient and aeration questions are valid though IMO. From a growth rate perspective both seem like pretty painless ways to remove potential limiting factors.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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when the argument fails, attack annies diplomacy.
its written on a stone somewhere. peeps seem to forget, i grew on dirt for yrs and yrs, indoors and out. under flouro and sun , blah blah blah. even up till a decade ago, we were still doing this. i know the diff in all types of lophs from experience. hell i was hunting wild ones in the 70's there is a REASON i developed XHTTL and its variants. im humored, my detractors use indoor teks, that i abandoned a decade ago, for better methods, and they are trying to re- sell me on it. right now im kicking back, and watching the leaves curl in a grafters grow......i know why, and it aint light. my point is simple, how much charm do ya need when ya have experience? XHTTL, it works. annie endorsed.......... in the new age, --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/05/14 01:46 PM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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When reasonable questions are raised, side step them and claim your still the best. annie endorsed..........
Quote: So your solution is to only use leafless perskiopsis sticks? Trust me, greater photosynthetic area is never a bad thing. I agree it isn't light, it's water and/or nutrient. The scion pulls from these reserves when it's needs are not met entirely. I have also noticed leaves can sustain damage from spines, and typically do not recover.
Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 02:16 PM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Quote: True with columnars for sure, as a pinch point is a potential break point. From a biomass perspective (for grafting stock or consumption purposes) all is not lost though, since the top portion can just be re-rooted. I would say it's a lot more of a non-issue with peyote since old stem growth tends to eventually become buried anyway when they are on their own roots. The "burrowing" effect during drought periods is pretty cool for this. I think watering too late in the year may indeed be part of my problem with Trichocereus. Unfortunately this year I'm getting some rot with them.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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actually, those are the pre 'x aerophora" clones.
their ultimate use, requires no leaves. normally, i have plenty of non curling leaves. im just throwing this tek up as a time marker , for a much more advanced tek coming up. scanned some of your grow stuff hookah looks like your using 2-3x the energy , and 2x the space, for about 1/10 the head of cattle per acre as i do. i will give ya this though, your garden looks healthier than goonthens. as for trichocereus, we did various types of hydro clones, including the first hydro TBM's , just mostly to test em. it works........ we decided it wasnt practical for indoors. cant see using the time , space , power for them. expert outdoor ones are plentiful if ya have friends. --------------------
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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Quote: thats why i consider psi one of the best growers here. he sets new standards for the age of the uber growers. --------------------
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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Yeah,that's Impressive,to say the least
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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ya , psi proves the point with T-8 and dirt systems fer sure.....
but keep in mind, he has a high skill level, and understands dirt dynamics and light distance/ color/ power. good head footprint density also. the key is garden engineering. and clearly, he gets superior croppage, far beyond, what others with similar set ups get. proving also, skill AND equip, makes the difference. my faith in humanity, and the future of the grow, is restored. ![]() for the next few seconds....... --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/05/14 03:22 PM)
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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Quote: There was no beef on another site that Anne didn't create with her own bad attitude and ego. As well as refusing to answer perfectly valid questions. Instead she just keeps saying that she doesn't need soil, this and that, because she has so much "experience". Anyone who wishes for perfectly reasonable answers to perfectly reasonable questions is just a "mailorder cacti grower" to Anne, a noob, and is just dismissed like they didn't say anything. Quote: Case and point.
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Success! Anne, I feel like that is the first real form of communication/progression we have made. I am sorry, and apologize for perhaps jumping the gun on your tek. Admittedly, I did not realize that this was intended as a place marker. The trouble with comparing our gardens, is mine was/is not intentionally geared towards optimal production. The only expense of this hobby so far has been my lighting, and some of my containers. If I had to guess, 200-300$ total. I had never actually intended to let my addiction get this bad, and would love to have at least a little bit of room for other plants, but I keep squeezing in cacti instead. My collection has been acquired from seed/trade/gift with little bias. I am forced indoors from october-march/april, the rest of the time I use high powered sun. My only objective is to grow cacti that attract my interest. I lucked into a seed gift of several mutated tricho crosses, which have produced a large number of freaks. This is my current obsession. I have also readopted some plants I had originally spread to friends. I also confess that I have little experience with mexican globulars, due to the stigma. I have raised/lost seedlings twice, and these are actually my first grafts. After loosing tiny year old babies, I could no longer not stick a few, and believe anyone who thinks all finicky cacti should be hard grown is a fool. The accelerated growth rate/propagation is amazing.
The 8 tube T5 was a recent treat to myself, and seemed the best option for my grow space. I would like to know what kind of efficiency your setup is? I believe you said 150w LED + supplemental, but never mention your footprint? This is a serious question, because it is an option to consider. I've stated several times that I am not trying to attack you, and am sorry if I have made you feel that way. I would love to support your theory instead of criticize it, but need some of the information we have been asking for. My garden does not get optimal treatment by any means. I neglect them more than I'd like to, but my life gets busy when school is in session. They get jostled and bumped when I clumsily water or fondle them. I admit to knocking a graft or 5 off, but luckily that hasn't happened in a while. My watering methods definitely need improvement. Space wash't originally an issue, but quickly outgrew myself. I am already planning for next winter. Indoor lighting of any kind doesn't seem to be optimal for Tricho's, but is sufficient enough to carry me through the winter. The psycho0 x TPM I recently chopped was noticeably elongating and is part of the reason it got the chop. It is currently callousing, and will be rooted when spring finally gets here. I had originally planning on the plant pupping, and ready for the sun... The stump was just to tempting though, and I wanted to see if my theory on the pith was valid, but lacked a suitable stock for the pup. So plans changed, and I now have a Peretricholoph. I am not sure how it will go, and know that others have done similar things that I'd like to check out more of. I'll post in EG occasionally so that it benefits other interested parties. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 07:16 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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that site died for its own reasons mallacht.
one of wich was grow troll posers gaining the upper hand, and driving off the serious growers. that place is no longer relevant to the modern grow. novel teks, stoke drama everywhere. it would be a bo-ring tek, if it didnt. pic is strain variation, size, and cross sections XHTTL. i wanna record the sound of cutting one with a big razor. they sound like cutting apples. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/05/14 06:43 PM)
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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They seem to be looking better Anne
Still rocking leaves after a year. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ Photo uploaded 1-24-13 Photos taken on 12-21-13 -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard Edited by hookahhead (01/05/14 07:17 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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How you can declare a specimen of lophophora to your own or how long you have propagate your own lophophora.. As far as I understand seems you have your own subspecies of lophophora anyone else doesn't have..?
However, seems the point of growing plants like that, purpose is purely different than hard grown "myth" you claim to be bullshit. Do not mix hard grown peyote ornaments to these you have if you don't know the reason why someone are very enthusiastic against hard grown ones.. But mixing mass production and ornamental cultivation are in fact IMO spreading the wrong information. If you rule out ornamental growers, the you can call hard grown peyote is myth. There is no really reason to keep own root peyote garden in purpose of production the mass of plants. This tek seems to have only one reason why to do so, I don't see this tek have even chances to challenge hard grown ornaments.. No way. You can't mix two different cultivation purposes to proof you have best tek. Well even some nurseries sell as well as grafted peyote, and only nurseries what sell grafted ones are selling their plants for ingestion or sell lots of psychoactive plant and herbal products. If purpose is purely mass production of peyote tissue, you can't put it against to hard grown ornamental cultivation.. You should know, some people grow lophophora only just for appearance and respect small but old plants. These growers who grow ornamental lophs... peyote is just small fragment of whole scale of cacti and succulents someone have their garden, they know what for peyote can be used but never probably consume peyote or trying to even achieve big plants fast. Peyote and other lophophora are in fact compact plants and most want to grow their plant for ornament. In my country peyote are seen as ornament, back in the 80's they was available to buy from nurseries easily, today there is few households and plant enthusiast who have very old own root peyote, only one peyote, rest of their cacti are totally different species. Most popular are compact plants in my country along cacti enthusiasm, I don't see any wrong they have one or two peyote plants along all cacti. They're hard grown, but what is the myth? Everyone know one peyote in clay pot, even it's 30-40years old, is not enough for experience and these collectors doesn't even want to think to use knife for their old plants and cut buttons. However, your tek, fast production of mass with different roots stock, it's not even reasonable to claim it's best.. It's not best if someone want hard grown peyote as ornament, it's very low maintenance plant and freely flowering and rare. My point is your topic tittle, seem you challenge ornamental growers with your tek. You should challenge those who you know to produce peyote for consumption on their own roots, enlighten these people who grow ton of peyote buttons on their own roots. This is still more in the culture, if you want to change thousands of years old culture of native americans, go for it.. I hope these who consume peyote think about your tek when they produce peyote, but it may not be so simple.. Peyote is plant with long history for some people, also I know there are people who grow peyote in their own roots and consume them. In large scale. Some people eat peyote harvested from their habitat. Only who you can challenge with mass production of peyote buttons are those who grow peyote in order to ingest the buttons of them, you can't even claim your tek is best if you don't rule out ornamental growers. I don't see it that way. I don't see ornamental peyote or any kind of lophophora growers should be judge by their enthusiasm to grow hard grown plants what are almost identical look-a-like plants in habitat. That's what is all about for me, achieving to get lophophora plants similar what they are in habitat. I have actually now soon 2years old peyote, not even 1cm diameter, root are still massive compared to actual button above the soil. I understand annie you want maximum growth of edible tissue of peyote? ...that's fine for me, but who are you to judge people who collect dozens or hundreds of specimens of various cacti and lophophora are just small fraction of their whole collection.. Some may have hundreds of cacti, but only two hard grown lophophora, you probably understand they are not mean't for production of plant mass, ornaments are different.. Also You have not answered my questions yet, I feel you dodge them because you're produce edible buttons, that's why you probably use same clone so you know the potency of all your buttons. Seed grown grafts potency vary from button to button. Some are stronger, some are weak. Yet I have still said many times, your tek would be perfect to propagate lots of edible buttons, but I don't see they have nothing to do hard grown specimens people grow for ornament. IF you want to enlighten the people who buy peyote on their own root and eat them, then go for it but I think there are not much of people who do so.. Also I can tell something about peyote in europe, it's ornamental plant, sold as ornamental.. Only some smartshops will sell peyote "for consumption" but I have yet not heard no one have got their experience, and when they starts to blame smartshops about rip them off, smartshop vendor reply "you should grow your plants many years before you ingest, we just offer you a start" Even they give guidance with plant how to consume peyote but they're really young and weak in potency. You should enlighten the noobs and say directly not to buy and kill hard grown ornamental peyote for consumption. Trichocereus are probably good for that purpose. Maybe the best plant for this if clone is strong. The thing is why I ask about you the potency of your clones grown with perskiopsis are simple: I know san pedro clone, fast growing, pest resistant and it's strong in potency, only 20grams of dried san pedro flesh are enough to give experience of that clone. So I am curious can this amount and as potent cacti be produced with pereskiopsis and lophophora. Can this tek challenge the potency of trichocereus known to be "very active" and basically taking care of the trichocereus are simple, they hardly never have spider mites or if so, only water and moisture can get these bugs in control. There is still one minus with growing the potent trichocerus compared to your compact way to grow peyote buttons, trichocereus really need space and strong light but can your peyote really be stronger than recently studied strongest san pedro? I would want to ask lots of things but you seems to dodge my questions, I don't see your tek have nothing to do with ornamental growing so don't blame everyone who collect hard grown specimens and grow their own from seed as well, without grafting. They're not for consumption, I think most serious peyote collectors and growers there doesn't want to think of harvesting hard grown peyote so add two totally different things against another is basically miss-leading of people. Go on and teach and educate those who want to cultivate consumable peyote without long waiting, educate these who are willing to even mutilate hard grown plants in order to experience mescaline. You should not attack against ornamental lophophora growers and collectors because they are mostly people who collect all kind of cacti.. I know some people like hard grown lophophora but it's not even lophophora williamsii, some people love to grow and collect another lophs, l. fricii, diffusa, koehresii and some hybrids for example l. koehresii x fricii. I see potential in your tek if I want to start produce seeds and cross breed my l. fricii plants with l. koehresii. Or l. koehresii x fricii.. Then seeds from these are good to graft to see do new hybrids have born, and if so, they're good to grow with pereskiopsis in order to have first flowers and start doing stabile F1 strain of this cross breed, maybe later on probably degraft hybrids when grower have achieved to get F2 or F3 strain of cross breed lophophora. But these species have nothing to do with mass production, pereskiopsis helps to faster up the time but later on all of these kind of collectors want hard grown specimen, no matter what. Just breeding is very good way to do with your tek or some another people tek and use the pereskiopsis stock. There is potential with pereskiopsis, no doubt, not only for production tons of same peyote but produce hybrids of cacti, probably trying to achieve to find out really new mutants and so on. Or fasten up the growth and degraft ~4-5cm button back to soil. You probably know, lophophora will react to soil with own roots and therefor soil mix define the appearance of epidermis of plant. Cycle of watering and drought makes the appearance of hard grown peyote, epidermis takes it's coloration of grey by reacting with soil, and I talk about plant growing on it's own root. You probably know cacti roots are seems to attach to rocks in soil, they have enzymes in roots what basically dissolve rocks in order to get minerals with fertilizers.. However, I don't see reason to even explain more why ornamental hard grown lophophora cultivation should not be judge because they don't grow lots of mass over one season. I just don't get why you want to attack bascially against wrong group of peyote growers with your way to grow peyote. Most people like to have peyote in growing in mineral soil for ornament. Without the fact peyote on it's own react soil, and also to light and appearance are purely based on what kind of soil and light conditions peyote have. Also watering cycle define the hard grown lophophora, without the tap root and slow growing, probably nice ornament will not be achieved. One way to achieve nice ornament is simple, your tek can be used few months to have button big enough so it can be cut off, care it like cutting and wait button starts to root and therefor starts to reacting to soil and that' what makes the appearance of hard grown peyote, it's only about apperance, not matter of how fast plant grow.. I don't know why you are not willing to answer few simple questions I have write there. Potency of buttons etc.. Also why I ask how long it takes from seed to flowering button, I am interested of breed lophophora what are not self-fertile... I am interessted of breed my own fricii x koehresii hybrids and then get it forwards with grafting by doing F2 strain, then F3 and later on collect the best looking ones off from pereskiopsis and start to root them as cuttings and years later I should have plant look-a-like to hard grown one. I feel you just drop picture or two and then one hint, after that you start behave like everyone else are douchebag idiots who should not even know how to use or (maybe)improve your tek to for propagation and seed production purposes.. And what comes to loph. williamsii scions on pereskiopsis and under artificial lights, I'm interested to know the possible potency of mescaline in the buttons, possible dosage and then compare it to easy propagated and cultivated strong trichocereus clone and make my own mind what species and tek are best way to grow mescaline containing cacti. I ask this just because of a fact I don't see any ornamental way by keeping a garden full of grafted peyote. I know what for the buttons are used in the past and today. Thanks if you're willing to answer few questions about peyote with pereskiopsis and also, what is the story of your clone, do you have propagate it by breeding or is it just from one patch of seeds of peyote? Peace. Edited by intelligentlife (01/06/14 03:53 AM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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Quote: not concerned with consumption issues. im concerned with conservation issues. these things are at risk of extinction because of consumption. as is other types of rare cacti. a good portion,of mail ex cacti are consumed or killed thru poor care. if they werent, we would see alot more of them . if anyone wants to see a judgement in my hyper hydro graft teks, thats their projection. as for strains? we searched thru over 20k seeds about a decade ago, for unique strains for clones. so we do have forms/ unique to our lab. ive never been against ornamental growers. thats a hater fantasy to recruit sympathy to their vile POV. what i am against, is someone mail- exing a cactus, then declaring themselves a PHD expert, and then foisting BS fantasy on actual growers. if there isnt a line between EXPERIENCE and parcel post, we all might as well give up and die under a saguaro somewhere. if ya wanna order half of thailand in an auction, fine. just dont tell me about my from seed hydro -phora . dont need it. ill always answer reasonable questions. preferably one at a time. --------------------
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Planeteer Registered: 01/10/11 Posts: 638 Loc: The Middle of Pe Last seen: 10 years, 18 days |
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Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: It seems to me that you NEVER answer questions... no matter how they are presented. -------------------- "My worm farm" "96 Gallon Worm Tote" "Let Your Freak Flag Fly" "Respect Your Roots" "A KNEW IDEA" "Nothing New" "Willkommen im EthnoGarten" "Don't Be a Backeberg" "Mites and Mealy Bugs" "The Heart and the Sun" If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else. Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you. YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE. Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS. Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: Lophophora is plentiful in cultivation collections on every single continent barring Antarctica and a vast majority of growers don't grow for consumption, so how could you say this? Posting these links for further reading if you're interested. There are places in TX where they have been over harvested, I'll give you that. But in Mexico they are still plentiful and untouched in many areas. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/hunt http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmr Quote: Please I'm begging at this point for you to stop repeating this as if it were a fact. Even if the first sentence in this quote were true, it has no bearing on how many mail order pictures we see posted online. The two are not correlated at all. Most people who purchase cacti are simply not interested in posting pictures of them online after they receive them. Quote: The world isn't quite as black and white as this. I have several sites bookmarked where expert growers are constantly trading genetics with one another. You seem to think people are either an experienced grower who never trades/buys cacti or they're a mail order noob. How do you think expert growers get new genetics to grow? Seeds don't rain from the sky. ![]() I'm not on the offensive here so please be kind in return. I'm only interested in correcting misinfo when I spot it. This site is all about overcoming the wealth of misinformation out there on the web, so I'd assume we both have the same goals in mind, do we not? Grow on. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/06/14 12:07 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Haters gonna hate. Risk of extinction is when you mutilate your peyote.. What happen if peyote extinct from nature, do you think you can help with planting grafted buttons with stick of pereskiopsis in to desert? That's your solution? Tap root is the best part of the peyote, without this good root an water storage system it can't survive on it's habitat. Tap root is survival in that way, if you fear extinction, why the hell you mutilate the plant the way it's not even part of the nature anymore?
C'mon.. Europe is good example how much there is peyote around cause cultivation is legal, and every year, every season new big amount of peyote plants are sown for sale later on. So if I want piece of mind for you I should stop trading lophophora in order to make more money to my pocket? I can say, everyone ask plants with own roots, grafted plants are considered to be ugly in ornamental gardens. Even best specialist of cacti will trade and buy them. What's wrong with that? What's wrong to sell plants after they are grown bigger or sell them directly without planting them on my garden. Seems your way also doesn't help lophophora genus from extinction, they should flower and produce seeds in order to survive in habitat. I got an idea, I harvest and buy shitloads of seeds, thousands of them, the pick one from there and say it's unique.. Haven't you seen all peyote are unique if they're seed grown? Does your decision to pick one specimen and propagate it makes your clones more unique to clones around? Few of my peyote plants I have not sold and keep in my garden, their mother and father plants are imported from mexico at 60-70's.. And basically all peyote are imported from that small part of the world by humans. But none of my peyote or lophophora isn't collected from their habitat, they all grown from seed, some of them I have buy'd as smaller and grow bigger, some I have grow from seed, some I have buy'd near by nursery... I never buy peyote nor cacti outside european borders.. But yes, peyote is imported from mexico to europe, most, almost all peyote i europe are basically grown via cuttings or from seed inside europe and it doesn't have nothing to do about harvesting the plants from their habitat.. If we don't count the fact europeans have been import lophophora at 60's and 70's from their habitat. Anyway, I don't stop collecting mother plants because you don't like it. I can buy specimens, grow them big enough to let them flower, mix pollen to increase seeds in fruit and sow seeds and grow my own plants from seed... Overall when think of this, every loph are basically someway mail order plant, even if you obtain seeds in mail are same thing.. Without business of lophophora cacti, your work are probably worthless.. And you should first to get to know european markets of lophophora before you start to blame everyone they're noobs. One guy I know buy and sell peyote, and respect the hard grown ones, he makes own salary with these plants along another cacti.. Also he grow plants from seed and sell them.. You make this whole peyote business sound it's so black and white. C'mon I help people get what they want by speaking their language, when I buy I speak english, when I sell I speak my native language. Do you undertand I help people to get this rare cacti.. And if common plant enthusiast obtain expensive peyote, they do whatever they want to keep plant alive, they are too expensive to buy and let die. Maybe you have experience of buying plants online from asia and then find out they die in your care? Or where you have find out "all peyote got from mail will going to die"? As I have said, some people at 80's there have obtained peyote as young rare plant, still they have them but they are older and bigger and part of bigger garden complex. Sounds you have bad experience about peyote obtained trough mail because you hate it so much? IF one noob buy peyote trough mail and destroy them, it doesn't mean all who buy plants are noobs. I know lots of collectors who buy constantly new plants, size of the plant it's not important, only what is important is the plant itself. Mail order peyote(seedlings or adults) and your way to mutilate peyote are both very bad to this plant genus. IF you're really worried about peyote and possible extinction of the plant, do not mutilate this rare plant, just keep them in soil and alive with less care and water. Why they need to be fast growing for your pleasure? Can't you see yourself? You mutilate peyote for your own pleasure and obsession to get growth rate big under lights and with root stock plant. In my mind, less human help peyote need, better it is for this genus of cacti. If your obsession is to have fast peyote via grafting, maybe some people have obsession to have fast peyote via mail, what's the difference? You mutilate and consume electricity to achieve fast your buttons. Your called noobs have mail and plant peyote to soil. Why need to graft? Why need artificial light? -Because you don't have patience to wait peyote to grow and you have probably obsession to get them grow mass. All grafting is mutilation of peyote for human own pleasure, it doesn't basically help the peyote at all. If you really care peyote, you should not mutilate them, sow seeds and let them take their own time to grow. OR obtain few mother plants, collect sees from them and grow lots of plants from seed without any obsession to get them grow faster and bigger. Maybe your perspective of mail order plants are too narrow. Even good growers will buy plants from mail, there are lots of reasons why to obtain a plant from mail, someone want to expand their collection with new species or mutants.. If you really think all peyote will die trough mail, you have very narrow perspective to see hobby of collecting cactus. If I want new species of cacti, I don't try to obtain seeds and grow at first, I want to make sure I really obtain a species what I want, there are seed sellers who are selling bad and old seeds or wrong seeds to just rip off money from people. Some people want to make sure they obtain species they really want, only way is to get young plant trough mail. There are lots of reasons why, more than you have explanations why not. One fucking huge and obvious reason why most people don't even photograph peyote and try to proof you anything are the fact peyote is illegal in some countries and if it's not illegal it can be illegal to import. So why take a risk and photograph the "criminal activity" in order to proof you their words? I really don't see your peyote mutilation way are different than buying young peyote in mail to start growing or graft the buy'd buttons. IMO best peyote is peyote what doesn't require any attention from human and don't consume electricity probably produced in nuclear plants. If I really want to start judge, there is lots of "wrong" things you do morally wrong like all of us.. We really don't know are our electricity from nuclear plants or not, we really don't know how much nature are destroyed in order to we have electricity and clean water. If you want to moralize everyone, think twice before you use drinkable water for plants or expensive artificial lights. Why not collect water from nature and use sun light? Why to "save peyote" or whatever your mission seems to be if same time we humans destroy our own environment by using questionable technology what basically pollute our environment? I can't moralize you because your way of cultivation of peyote, but if you really love the mother nature, stop using plastic containers, artificial lights and get your water when it's raining from outdoors. There are lots of persons in the third world who suffer because of us and our technology in western world... I would not worry about peyote if cultivation consumes natural resources too much.. If some "noob" obtain few peyote, use clay pots, windowsill and rain water for them.. I dare to say it's way more better to mother earth than any kind of fancy equipment using. I can't moralize you about using artificial lights and so on, I use them also over winter but I have really think I should stop using any kind of technology to grow cacti because after all every technology ends up as trash to another side of the world where people are already suffer, our problems and arguments about how to grow peyote are basically silly compared to the costs how much environment suffer from plastic pot production, energy production and water purification. Peyote will do fine without any help of human. We destroy habitat of peyote and overharvest peyote, we block rivers(what change ecosystem very bad) to produce electricity, build nuclear plants and rip off mother earth. Every electronic equipment or tap water are someway linked to destroying the planet.. In fact you, me and everyone who use new technology should be think twice because we grow cacti in the cost of ripping mother nature. Do we really need to grow any cacti with new technology because another part of the world will suffer because about production of plastic and energy to power up our lights or heat? I have some kind of moral dilemma because of this all, I want people(me also) stop using resources made by ripping of the nature in order to achieve our own goal to get plants shape what we want. Every possible technology use for any purposes to grow plants are hypocritical because plastics and metals are from mining and oil industry. Do we really need to save peyote in order to destroy more nature elsewhere.. It's not morally right, peyote can be cultivated easily without the help of mining and oil industry. I have really think to stop using any technology in my garden and like I do, I continue to collect water from nature. Also fertilizers and growing medium can be done easily also from nature without causing any major damage. Are any small artificial plant environment worth of destroying mother nature elsewhere? Morally perspective of all this is not so simple. If you anne really use all year around your equipment in order to keep peyote buttons, you have same time supported oil and mining industry and non-directly destroy mother nature elsewhere by achieving your goal with peyote buttons. I'm puzzling morally about using lights over winter because I know all kind of support of technology will destroy big areas of some another people environment. I really don't know how electricity are produced to my light bulbs, I probably support russian nuclear energy by keeping my plant lights on, also when I buy any kind of plastic pots or heating pads I support oil and mining industry non-directly.. I know there are lots of "noobs" who doesn't use artificial lights, heating nor plastic pots and commercial soil for peyote. Why anne declare war against people who basically even don't destroy our planet and grow "mail trophy peyote" without any non-direct support to oil and mining industry? Also electric production are very harmful already. Maybe anne should think more deeper about war against noobs and use of technology from moral perpective, is it really worth of getting bunch of fancy peyote buttons by supporting non-directly worlds nastiest industries? ..we all who use artificial lights and energy should think what is morally right and what is not. Morally right way isn't the best way to grow peyote, it's very slow job. Every grower, including me should think should we even need to support oil and mining industry and how much human blood are bleed in order to we have possible to grow all kind of things. All electric lights and their "ecology" are basically just illusion in our head, we really don't see how much shit and waste big industries dump to third world out of our own backyard. If we cut of the morality about using of electricity and technology, then we do good job when we can get plants feel more comfortable and same time all technology trash and shit are exported elsewhere.... I can say few mail order peyote plants imported or exported for noobs isn't mean anything compared to how much technology waste we dump to nations where people suffer about it already. Anne, your "war" against noobs with mail order peyote will support pollution and big nasty corporations. If you want to do morally right thing, shut the power off and grow plants at windowsill in clay pots like noobs you're fight against. "the new age" and all modern technology with electric consumption devices are morally bullshit and support only bad industries when we buy constantly new tech.. Old tech will be exported to nations where humans are already living surrounded by trash and toxic.. IF you have not morality at all when using new technology, like most of us doesn't have and if we say we have moral it's just hypocritical bullshit.. Why we just don't throw our technology and new age away and focus really things what are morally right thing to do. Saving peyote from "noobs" doesn't mean anything if you same time support industries what doesn't have moral and they destroy our planet, new age tech are hypocritical bullshit. Those "noobs" are probably right if they don't use extra tech to grow peyote? Even they don't understand they do not support oil and mining industry by using new tech but at least their way to grow peyote are morally right, even they don't know how to care plants. I can say I have not much of moral from that perspective at winter time, but I don't use growing lights when sun is visible. And I have really think to reduce or stop using electricity at all when I grow my plants. In my climate it would be 6-7months of dormant and only 5-6months of growing season. Then I can say I don't pollinate our planet and human habitat with my hobby. Only what is really worth of saying is we just need to stop using any technology and new age bullshit and see who can manage to get best results without any technology and therefor grow important peyote without raping the mother nature non-directly with it. I maybe jumped little bit to offtopic but I don't think our fancy systems are morally right way to keep peyote thriving in the cost of we same time rape mother nature by using technology. And yes, I am hypocritical, my computer is result from oil and mining industry, maybe partial by recycling of metals and plastic.. I know one people stop using technology doesn't matter and it's just water drop in the ocean, but for the sake of morality most of our ways to grow cacti is wrong. Only these noobs who have their windowsill cacti without any technology are the one who are doing the right thing when we change perspective, even they can't manage to keep cactus healthy, but at least they don't use technology what is literally trash and waste in to future and it will be exported to elsewhere where we don't see the trash and old technology.. What kind of world we leave to your offspring and next generations by constantly supporting new tech or even use technology for things like cultivating small peyote buttons for nothing? Do you anne see the moral issue of using any kind of new tech or not? Can you see it or don't you want to see it? Edited by intelligentlife (01/06/14 02:19 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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Some questions that still go unanswered.
Quote: So after trolling through the quagmire that is the blog I think I can answer 3 of the last 4 questions myself. The first time these pint cups show up is at the beginning of October so this is a totally new unproven setup. So growing in soil goes back to the beginning of time and yet a not even three month old trial is supposed to prove every other grower in the world is doing it wrong. Cheers Got
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: Three months is almost comparable to 425 million years, if you squint your eyes and brain hard enough. Quote: It appears LED will be the only legitimate method to growing cacti indoors in a few more months. If you've got fluoros or CFLs running, I'd suggest packing them up before the endorsement deadline hits. You don't want to be "that guy" who gets caught with his pants down still running an antiquated lighting setup. Subpar crops grown under fluoros like this just won't cut it. Edited by SuperD (01/07/14 05:21 AM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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hmmm if ya havent used LED , you dont realize the advantages.
as for the cup thing, tubes , cups, flasks small vases........ all work, the cups merely increase stability and head footprint. i always find it odd, that peeps know so much about something they havent tried, or have even seen before. i also find the faux news spin on stuff sorta bizzare. anyone suggesting the small water subs , is more than the buckets of dirt. is really reaching. fact is guys, after all the spin and twistng in the wind, it exists, it works, its fast, its sustainable, and its energy efficient......... from the letters on my blog last few days, it appears if anything, your all convincing peeps to try it. i always bank most grow peeps are sane. its worked for me so far. oh and goonthen, this research into hydro cacti began almost 15 yrs ago, and the first prototypes in polycarbs were first shown about 10 yrs ago........ so , um ya totally untested for a decade? just cuz its new to you, doesnt mean its new to annie. its the new age, not new teks. i can understand when new grafters havent seen it......... Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 01:53 PM)
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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You're actually doing quite well anne. Just look at the number of hits on this thread alone when compared to the average EG thread on the front page.
Quote: You got me there. I haven't tried LED yet and it does seem promising for certain growing scenarios, but you can't say we haven't seen it before when you're constantly posting pics of it in every thread you make. Quote: Again, no arguments here. You've proven beyond any reasonable doubt to any sane person that your setup works for you. It's just that most of us are not growing for the same reasons you are, so convincing everyone to hop on board with your teks won't work regardless of how effective and efficient they may seem to you. I can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I personally prefer lophs grown in my greenhouses under the sun because they put off a nice blue hue as seen in my signature. When your setup is capable of producing results that I want...
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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lighting affects chloro A and cholro B,
hence color and to a degree shape. thats sorta the beauty of the tek, it makes them highly variable in a predictable way. fast. i do, what i do, for my reasons. there are certainly many options for color , shape, and nutes/ lights. the point of releasing some of this stuff into the wild, is in hopes others will add to the experiments possibilities. --------------------
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Ban Lotto Champion Registered: 07/08/09 Posts: 53,849 |
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When you release back to nature, is transitioning to sunlight something you do slowly? Or are they surviving immediate transplants?
Apologies in advance if this question had been answered already.
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: She's referring to releasing her teks/methods onto forums, not releasing her specimens back into their native habitats. ![]() Quote: If you or someone else experimenting with your teks is capable of producing compact, fairly flat, and blueish looking lophs by utilizing LED, I'll be on board faster than you can say carrots. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Ban Lotto Champion Registered: 07/08/09 Posts: 53,849 |
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Ah thanks, gotcha. I've been under the impression this was about replenishing the dwindling wild peyote.
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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I got also understanding anne trying to save peyote from extinction with her tek? Does that say something or why worry about extinction of peyote and same time mutilate them "out from nature"?
Anne, do me a favor and obtain via mail greenhouse grown one mammillaria, gymnocalycium and one cobular echinopsis under your lights. Next to your grafted plants. Wait few motnhs and show us a picture how much LED change appearance of plants. New growth will show how effective LED really are. Show pics before and after, so these plants taken out from greenhouse, add to your setup and you can see from them.. If they grow like they have been, I believe you have very effective light for cactus. If some plants change form over few months... well you can make your own conclusions from that. I know you hate "mail order trophy" plants but obtain few specimens grown in nursery. I would like to see how much the appearance have change. Also why spent lots of money to LED where is very picky spectrum, every small "bulb" send very narrow spectrum of light. Because of you have already LED and you say they're best, just spent small amount of money for plants and post pictures later what kind of new growth your LED setup show. Maybe this is good for grafted lophs, but there are nothing to compare.. I mean another species, non-grafted ones. You're trying to sell your tek for people who have more species than peyote. If you really declare LED are best, proof it with another species also. I would want to see small gymno, mammillaria and echinopsis obtained from nursery and later on see what kind of appearance they have after one season under your lights. When you have lots of species and pics of more than one species under LED, it would be easier to make decision. If you can afford to spent lots of money to few LED, it should not be problem to afford to obtain 3 different species of small cobulars and show pics after few months how dramatically growth have been changed. If you are trying to sell this tek only for people who grow peyote as grafted, then go for it. But don't start argue if you have no experience of any other species of cacti under your lights. I never stop using fluoro nor cfl for cacti, seedlings.. And if I use them I use only them as giving extra light at windowsill or giving light over window. If LED grow lights would not have so much bullshit in their prices, I would buy them.. Also I would build LED lights, but I'm really not interested the use of LED for cacti. Only cannabis and other foliage plants, LED are perfect even their prices are too much. Components for LED-panel are over half of the price than actual ready panel. So if components are buy'd by bigger company, they are more cheaper. Some cannabis grower build their own LED.. They're as equal as LED light buy'd from store. Only difference is there is still too much "air" in the price of LED.. These are really famous lights along cannabis growers, but for cacti? c'mon.. ![]() Basically not any light are best for cactus if you have possibility to use sun light. Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 05:19 PM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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I wonder how multi-taprooted degrafts might do in the wild after a sufficient acclimatization period. Conventional wisdom seems to be that single taproots are better for drought resistance, but I haven't seen any tests on it where someone actually transferred degrafts to the wild.
I think Anne may be talking about taking pressure off wild populations indirectly though, by producing plants in culture in greater number so that less would be harvested from the wild.
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Quote: So there is answer to my question, thanks It's only about people move from harvesting peyote from wild to grow their own.. Took long time to someone gives a answer for this. ![]() I think many peyote growers and those who consume then doesn't want to forget their ancestors traditions tho. There are some "cults" grow peyote legally in usa for consumption in states where it's legal to grow if it's attached to religion, they have so large number or plants and decades old work behind, they can harvest some and consume them. But yet, the desert area is so wide I bet there are still peyote plants what not a single human have seen or find. Area of peyote habitat are bigger than most countries in the world anyway.. Also I have understand there are some control areas and specimens in the desert and people just test out how much harvesting effect the plants and how many plant survive from harvesting and produce more buttons. I have read buttons price goes high and size goes smaller, it will indicate something about but how's things are about in mexico? does this fact only problem in usa? afaik most area where peyote grow are in mexico and it's illegal to import wild harvested peyote from mexico to usa? But that doesn't rule out the fact they can be smuggled from mexico to usa easily. I would not be consider the peyote and it's extinction. There are enough peyote for everyone anyway, grown in greenhouse for consumption or harvested from wild. There are not much difference in potency. Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 05:33 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: For those of us like myself and ferrel, we'd actually be able to test this somewhat accurately by simply taking a short drive or planting a few in our backyard with a prepared spot since we're so close to their native hab. Quote: Exactly right on the money. Her method seems to work for that purpose if that is what the grower's intentions are. My intention is to grow beautiful and compact specimens without any regard for the quantity grown so I can't personally see myself utilizing her teks. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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they acclimatize like anything else.
im always flattered you think they are magical in some way. LED is cheap now. excluding the LLE and chip systems , test boxes 5-6 are only about 500$ each complete. the 5400k single spots are less than 50$ each, chip lights are about 100 each , and are experimental VHO chips , and not available on the commercial market to my knowledge. at least not on the power level we have. yet. the LLE blue 50W , 5W x , was built for me by a physics lab, and would cost at least 1k. as for shapes, heres something to think about. both of these 2 differnt strains, both grown under IDENTICAL CONDITIONS , same age. that should keep ya guessing. we have pictures of all kinds of wild stuff , over many yrs. nearly every specimen, documented thru seed and various changes over time, and the effects of various annie inspired environments. most everything i show, is actually sorta old experiments i sit on huge amounts of pics and data , for both cacti and fungi. experience on all forums , has shown i can only display stuff at a certain rate..........and explain it. im a girl with designer taste, it extends to everything i touch. they acclimatize well .... in mty travels, i cant just wing a farm thru customs, therefore, ive abandoned farms in several countries , on several continents, to local growers for care......... they wind up repotted in gren houses, on roofs, and in indoor gardens. no one i know of, has had any issues with them. they are no different, than any fully hydrated lophs. now ya know why i dont have warehouses full of giant ones, its cuz they are spread out over the globe as i move. i can have as many as i want , anywhere i want, in a few months. i only get attached to strains, not individuals. when i arrive somewhere new, my global seed and pereskiopsis network, takes care of me, and in months i have a closet full. its kinda like a curse sorta sometimes. ![]() if the tek isnt for you, its not for you. i can understand that totally. 99% of the stuff here, on both cacti and fungi forums, isnt for me either............i couldnt live with the performance values. so, we just generate our own teks that do meet our needs. none the less, it wildly generates any cactus we have tried try it with...... Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 06:21 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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LED are still expensive compared to another lights.
IF we jump to cannabis cultivation, there are more effective lights with less money what every LED you can find. You try to trick me. Two different strain of lophophora isn't two different species. I mean't do you have any proof with ornamental species, mammillaria, gymnos? Obtain one both of these species grow by nurseries, size of 3-4cm. Grow them under LED over one season and show data, if you don't have. I bet they don't grow anymore good for use as ornament. But your tek and intentions for this are really obvious, you just need fast production of peyote flesh fast, there are no different way than consumption. People will know your tek and do same thing to grow their own edible peyote. That's what's all about with this. Still I want to say, don't declare LED are best for cactus, declare it's best for peyote growing for consumption purposes. These are two different things. You should not attack against ornament growers with your tek because it doesn't work with ornaments, you can try your self. Show me nice vigorous fat trichocereus grown with LED and own roots, then I can understand why LED are best and sun light is not the way of growing cacti. But please don't mix ornamental cultivation and mass production of peyote buttons. Or if you don't purposely mix them together, make your posts more clear and answer simple questions so there are no need to argue and misunderstood another person. Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 05:50 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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i suppose if its a contest of oliver twist grows, i lose,
that said, if ya had a dollar value over biomass equation, over time, i look fawking fan-tastic. personally , i think you guys pay way too much to grow. you guys burn electric like mad, use lots of space, pots, soil, lights, and then add your attrition rate.. for what , a dozen raquetballs and a trich stand? geez. thats like spending lots, for a shelf pet to stare at. if im spending, i want a dynamic fast moving high output farm. we have tested trichocereus for feasability, along with ariocarpus, TBM's and coryphantas. we see no point in the time, effort, space, and energy, for a rack of cacti i can get from a friend as a gift anytime. common sense indicates this is practical for rare small cacti, and moronic for saguaros. as said, annie is about conservation of rare cacti. if your concerned with consumption, thats your projection. its simple peeps , i develop these and other teks for my interests, and then share em as i please. yes i have a cool lab, but i dont really sit around thinking how i can prove anything and everything to anyone for any whim. in annies lab, annie entertains annie first. my claims extend to whats shown in pics , and the obvious. at no point, am i a free research house at beck and call intelligent. feel absolutely free to experiment yourself. also , no trick question, strains vary............ if ya only seen a few hundred lophs , ya dont notice after about 20k, ya notice variants. my entire clone collection, is variants. many selected to exploit different conditions. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 06:13 PM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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I'm not so dumb I don't understand variants of lophs.
I have actually seen huge greenhouses full of adul, small and average size peyote and variants I will notice the difference of peyote or it's variants and know there are different habitat plants. You don't know what I know or where I have got my advice for cultivation of ornaments. Also I don't know what you know and we have totally different way to grow cacti. We have totally different perspective to cacti. One I can tell, I don't care much of what variant of habitat peyote I have or you have. Peyote is lophophora williamsii cactus species for me in my collection, nothing more, nothing less and I don't care about as long as I have peyote and I know what it is. IT doesn't make me less of a person than you if you have seen 20k seedlings and I have seen amount you don't even know. Anyway, you don't even know me so howcome you can claim I need to see exact number of 20k peyote to notice variants, what is your understanding of variants? I know enough to keep my plants alive, no matter of what habitat peyote or variant of peyote I have. Also IF I don't know, I don't dare to ask from anothers but I am not so passionate about peyote I don't even care about competition of who know variants or who don't and if you do know. Can I show you pictures of plants and you say are they common peyote or variant and if variant, what variant they are by the name? Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 06:23 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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so defensive.
i present what i do, with pics, and declare the obvious. we grow alot of hydro grafts, and we do alot of work under exotic lights. we think its a great way to generate a hell of alot of rare golf balls fast. its my personal solution to my collection. not real big on mail, and im an action girl in the new age. i need that tray of rare cacti, NOW, and i dont want a bunch of dirt ruining a 75$ manicure, and i dont need alot of heat in the tropics, and im not into a massive electric bill , for a row of bills.(pun) as said, if its not your thing, its not. and anyone , is welcome to research themselves different angles. you guys do realize, others on this site, and on other forums, are working on this also........... --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 06:36 PM)
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Registered: 05/29/04 Posts: 17,235 |
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The heat of traditional indoor lighting is a plus in cooler climates.
just sayin
Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (01/07/14 06:38 PM)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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its also the least efficient way to heat things.
at best , that argument would work for all growers above the tundra line. LED would work in all climates. heat and insulate your place right. flouros , tubes, and halides, are unbearable in the tropics , or for micro farms......... in that light, LED is universal, and the others, an oppresive handicap! im into VHO micro farms, low energy , low footprint. me and the maid sorta find this humorous. our entire place is LED , i refuse to have anything else in the house now. i get letters everyday, from growers that say, " you go girl! , i live in the city, and need a VHO farm, and no way am i gonna do a greenhouse barn tek...tell me more!" besides, who seriously is gonna have tube lights in 20 yrs........ might as well get a grip on LED now and beat the rush. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 06:45 PM)
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Registered: 05/29/04 Posts: 17,235 |
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How much would a 6'x6' floor area cost to set up full LED? Pimped for optimum growth that is. Not like cheap bare bones n get by but also not experimental special orders.
Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (01/07/14 06:50 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: I'm not disputing that claim as I can't possibly know who is doing what on this site or elsewhere, but if there are a good number of people on here utilizing your teks, I wish they would step forward in this thread or make their own so we can see a bigger sample of output quality from these lights and teks. Thus far all we have to go on is you and you alone and I'd like to see a little more variety at some point. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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as a range,
i do about 2 x3 . for about 400$, not including the blue star LLE... so, uh , plus minus , kinda sorta um .....1000$ but keep in mind, even with chip erosion, and electric cost, it plays out cheaper than anything else over time. super d. my peeps read most of what i do, plus my blog, and many are on my personal network. they see what goes on . and what happens when i show this stuff. XHTTL and poms peeps , are all keeping it under wraps, only the v-tek peeps are publishing at will now. some of em, have shown ya hints if ya were paying attention. i suspect, there wil be a pause, and then quite a few peeps will have them all at once.......... wich is sorta humorous. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 06:56 PM)
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Ban Lotto Champion Registered: 07/08/09 Posts: 53,849 |
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I'm just noting that I truly was asking a genuine question. Was not doubting or demeaning anything.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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your cool.
they are just like any fully hydrated loph, and acclimatize like any other...................... the more i read back thru this thread, the more i realize how badly you guys need LED. even if ya grow however ya grow, ya still need LED. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 07:02 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: That's the thing, I have been paying attention and have noted a severe lack of participation from others utilizing these teks and lights. I know earlier in either this thread or your other one that GGTBod is apparently using LED and posting about it on another forum but outside of him I see no indication at all that anyone else is doing anything LED related. I'd really like to see more results from these lights, especially if the end goal is to convince me or others to start using them. I won't be sold on them until flat compact and blue attributes are shown in lophs but again I need to stress that our goals and reasons for growing are worlds apart from one another. I am highly doubting LED will be capable of producing what I'm looking for in cacti but I'm always open to being surprised. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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![]() im not trying to convince you or sell you on anything. im simply demonstrating your future lighting. peeps reading this 20-30 yrs from now in archives, heres your cold proof annie is a back time traveler with alien teks ![]() ![]() seriously. you dont think your gonna be hugging flouros all your life, do you ? odds are in a decade , youll be paying pepes to get rid of em. also guys, ya know, if ya break a tube over a grow, its mercury poisoned. alot of tubes, alot of time, it happens.......oops. Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 07:21 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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I don't hug fluoros. I have two CFLs indoors to cover a few very expensive and prized specimens but I use the sun as my main power source for everything else I grow, not fluoros or CFL. There's no way any indoor light at any point in the future can possibly compete with a star for energy output.
Even if it did, I'd hate to be around when the power bill showed up in the mail.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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glib,
and what works for you works for you. those that want performance, without the heat or splash or mercury, or energy consumption, and want VHO micro farms...... um ,follow the LED beam. --------------------
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters
According to tests done by the DOE, it looks like LED will overtake fluoros in about 2 years time if all goes as planned for Philips. Currently LED appears no better then CFL, and most likely worse due to cost. Of course there is still the advantage of no mercury if an LED bulb happens to break but that hardly seems like a worthwhile tradeoff until that newer generation of bulbs is released. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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LEDs are far behind other lighting technology. The ONLY thing that they do well on, and all of their users seem to brag about, is the power consumption.
I've been working in Hydroponics supply stores, giving advice on the retail floor, as well as working for other Hydroponics companies that make products/equipment for growing. NO ONE that works in the Hydroponics industry will say anything good about LEDs for Cannabis, and anyone that is using them isn't happy with their yield. We sold them at the last Hydro store I worked at, and even partially owned the company we sold, and we STILL wouldn't even recommend them to anyone. Someone looks at it and we would say "Trust me man, you don't want that" Sound familiar? Basically you're doing the exact same thing, yield-wise, to Lophs. We keep telling you that you likely don't have actual mass and you keep saying over and over that you do. The only true test would be to take a bunch of own-roots or at the very least, outdoor grafted Lophs, dehydrate them completely cracker dry and then compare them to the exact same wet weight of your HTTL grafts. I guarantee you the actual mass created will differ. If it doesn't work for Cannabis, it's not going to work for Cacti, which need just as much if not more sun to grow ideally (Blue hue, compact, natural-looking) You are right Anne that they disproved the whole "grafts not producing alkaloids" thing, but that still says absolutely nothing about actual density created with grafts, particularly your HTTL grafts. LEDs have come a long way, I will give you that. But no one knows more about spectrum and lighting than people at a Hydroponics store and every manager I've ever had in the Hydro industry has pretty much laughed at people when they want to set up with LEDs. They're just not there yet, so stop acting like they are this super new technology that is the best kept secret in the world. Noobs come into Hydro stores every day talking about "I'm thinking about going with LEDs", trust me... And every day, super-experienced Hydroponics' store employees tell them that they are pretty much garbage.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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and yet it works great mallacht, go figure. all your conjecture, and heresy , and yet i do it all the time. get better consultants mallacht , the ones ya have are misinformed and boring this thread. so that gives my hmmm......... um almost 19 years of LED experience with greens, cacti, and fungi, a big advantage in a very few yrs...... im starting to notice, some of you guys let details and dogma fence in your grow. my only rule," biomass gets the lead out". command your grow in a dynamic way. dont let fear of these things and dogma, slow ya down . --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 07:50 PM)
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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PROVE it then, Anne. Prove it with the experiment outlined in my last post. You seem to have no problem with chopping up Lophs to make little cars, why don't you chop some more off and dehydrate them as illustrated in my last post? Compare them to own-roots lophs. You won't do it because you know you're wrong.
When it doubt, do it the Annie way and just keep posting pictures of Lophs that EVERYONE here has stated they honestly think look terrible, and claiming that you're "the best" Edited by theMallacht (01/07/14 07:57 PM)
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Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 30 days |
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Also, I don't know if you caught this part of that post of not but here it is again...
Quote: Why would a greedy Hydroponics store chain (and they ARE greedy, for sure) not attempt to sell their OWN affiliated product? We helped make and design the LEDs we sold and yet we still didn't recommend them to anyone, and furthermore, even steered people away from them any chance we got. I'm done with you Anne. You won't see me post here again. You don't listen to reason and are really the complete antithesis of the scientific mind. Ignorant, don't listen to facts, and yet still think you're the best. Have fun continually looking for a pat on the back for your pointless work creating crappy looking Lophs!
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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mallacht, a few noobs bought into your line a few yrs ago on topia.
those days are over, at least evolve a non yawner argument. peeps have seen way to much, there are alot of grafters now, and some are even doing hydro. lots of obvious pics. as far as LED, theres a fantastic grow all LED on your old ( deadmall cough) forum, you should check it out , they need the hits. badly. i even have a land / air / sea icon so really mallacht , to little too late. i suspect your joking actually. Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:02 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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I wanted to address this horrendous pic earlier but got distracted. You said 4 or 5 months ago (photo now deleted, I checked) that you have several different strains of lophs and you just repeated that again earlier today. Can we not step away from that misnomer already? We're not talking about cannabis here and even if we were, growing a poorly lit cannabis plant would not create a new strain. That is done through genetics and breeding as far as I'm aware. I'm not against you coming up with your own terms for things but you have to realize even the most novice of growers on here and elsewhere know better than to call a light stretched cacti a new strain. That just isn't how things work unfortunately and it really puts a dent in your credibility whenever that term gets thrown around so carelessly. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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define things as ya wish.
peeps hook me up with hybrid seeds from around the world to test. we weed thru and clone unique ones. as far as were concerned, they are cloned strains, as most were hybrids in the first place. also, i have radically differnt views on some of these things, and dont see lophs as a mono culture, but a complex group of subspecies. all topics, beyond this thread. dont care about pesty details. i grow hyper hyrdo cacti under exotic lights. at no point, am i trying to write a latin cactus book. dont care. i grow alot of cloned unique hybrids, and no one else has them. i can call them as i wish. i only show a tiny fraction of what i have on these threads. i have a whole portofolio of everything ya can imagine, good and bad. we crash test dummy them, so you dont have to. this threads focus, is hydro grafts, and LED , in VHO micro systems. main reason im putting this stuff out is, i want peeps to see it before the next major thread " aeropohora X" think of this like an alien movie, where the aliens show up in a little ship, and do little nifty things, so the earthings, " get used to em" then the mothership shows up. and the master aliens. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:25 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: You certainly can but when you use words commonly used to describe something entirely different, people get the wrong idea about your level of expertise and knowledge. It would be no different than me posting one of my many variegated specimens but calling it a crested cactus instead. I'd be getting a "WTF that is not crested!" response from everyone who knows the tiniest bit about cacti at all. Why not just call it a light stretched specimen? If you want to grow them etoliated that is your business but it becomes obvious to everybody when terms are misused, especially around here. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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Quote: "Clone lines" would be another way to describe them. The second pic might look to be light starved by the shape, but I would say the tone indicates otherwise. May have received a weird spectrum of light though. (red heavy?)
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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..........
ah psi........ ![]() i fished thru about a 20 k seeds and tested till i found ones sensitive to 680 nm that would go long , and ones at 450 nm that would go round , LED is fairly balanced spectrum, re root and crank em, they stay true to form. so techincally they are races of stabalized clones. note the pic, round ones , long ones. same conditions. has noting to do with etoliation, and everything to do with strain variation. these are topics for another thread. and boy are you gonna be shocked. see inexperienced peeps have screamed "etoliation", for yrs. its pure bulshit. i started setting aside comparison pics under many types of lights and power levels, and different strains.. promise youll be really shocked, almost every pic goes against everything taught. but. as said, thats not this thread. that thread, is gonna change everyones POV. once again, its beyond the scope to present all i know and my archives, in this thread, here i present hydro loph grafts in an LED micro system. this is what this specific system does, and its capabilities. in other threads, ill pop other bubbbles. you guys know me, ya know im sitting on some ace teks and info threads.....i just have to burn em off in segments or stages. this is part, of one of em. --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:48 PM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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If by "might look to be light starved" you mean definitely looks to be light starved, then I agree but again I don't care what she does with her own lophs. It just bothers me as an intermediate grower to see terms misused like that on a forum designed to stop the spread of misinformation.
Clone line? Now we're talking genetics and not light spectrum are we not? clone (kləʊn) —n: 1. a group of organisms or cells of the same genetic constitution that are descended from a common ancestor by asexual reproduction If I were to take a cutting from that loph and place it in one of my greenhouses over the summer I'd bet my house it doesn't continue growing in the same fashion it currently is. That is not what a clone is. You are confusing the hell out of me psi. I consider your knowledge on cacti to be far above mine due to learning so much from your posts in the past, but you have seriously got me wondering who between us is mixed up here. What good does using proper terminology do on a forum if anyone can make up their own definitions at will?
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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"Strain" has a pretty loose definition in biology/botany from what I'm reading, basically related individuals with a pretty consistent morphology. Anne does tend to use terminology how she feels like it though, I often have to translate it internally to what I think she means.
There are reports elsewhere of lophs that grow in a columnar shape under all conditions, you may recall mention of columnar jourdanianas in the LGU thread or elsewhere. Regarding light levels, don't you see what I mean about the color of that plant? I would say it's fairly dark. If I was viewing a zoomed in image of the plant's skin and could not see the shape, low light conditions would not have even occurred to me.
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Yeah I completely understand what you're saying about the color of the loph. Growing it under only one part of the spectrum it needs is still deprivation of light in my eyes though. I don't see how it could be anything but that. If anne wants to send me a small cutting to test in my GH over the next season I'd be happy to post results. I do remember the columnar jourd and it appeared healthy aside from that one factor.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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It is elongation or stretching all day every day until it has been grown under real light generated by the sun. And then only after a number of seasons of growth can you call it any thing else. You cant keep making up stuff to suit your self.
Would you call this a unique hybrid or elongated ?
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Is that supposed to be a sulcorebutia rauschii? I've got a few grafted that took off vertically like that. I found they stay globular on slower growing stock but when I grafted some to pedro and myrtillo they wanted to go vertical on me.
It could have to do with higher levels of light as well since most were in my GH.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/08/14 12:16 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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Well done mate you take the prize.
I grafted a couple of them after the original stock rotted ( Hylocereus )and I was like WTF is going on they was under the same lights as the original and they just kept going up and up. I have since moved them out into the green house to see whether they will fatten up. I also have another one that has done the same thing but my memory has gone at the moment. Here is a pic so you know the same could happen but I have noticed the ones I put out in the greenhouse early on have started to pup and fatten a little. Same deal stock rotted so I grafted all of the pups and now I have a heap of columnar ones. ![]() Original plant Cheers Got
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Farmer Registered: 10/09/13 Posts: 3,209 Loc: Portugal Last seen: 4 years, 2 months |
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Quote: This made me smile.
-------------------- Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures. http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot Sowing cacti - my way! Random pictures of my collection. Photographing cacti, Z's way.
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Animal Registered: 05/06/12 Posts: 334 Loc: Land of the Midn Last seen: 7 years, 7 months |
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How big is your total grow area and what was the cost for lights for all the space? What is your total wattage?
-------------------- I'll make sense when I run out of lemons. Until then I'll make lemonade.
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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I have find out many ways to grow cobulars to form of columnar.
-High temperature with very high humidity cause this (that's why probably most cobular plants in southeast asia are growing columnar way, I have seen lots of lophs in asia, growing columar) -Strong red light without any other spectrums, maybe humidity of air can increase this. It's my theory, I have not live or grown cacti in southeast asia but seems high constant humidity and plant capability to take water trough epidermis from humid air and very hot temperatures causes someway this. I have not seen much of columar lophs than l. jourdaniana grown elsewhere. Most lophs grow more columnar or shape of a egg seems there is something to do with constant high humidity over the year and high temperatures. OR in southeast asia are reddish spectrum of sun what human eye can't see maybe due to pollution in air or something.. I don't know for sure but most "columar peyote" are from area where is very hot and humid almost all year round and maybe that effects the lophs so much they grow to appearance of "water balloon" even their epidermis are like hard grown ones. Anyone else have notice difference of lophs grown in very humid and hot? Why I throw this theory? ...Last summer I had only 3 lophs in greenhouse, their appearance started to resemble of those lophs I have seen grown in southeast asia. Also my greenhouse are always humid and hot. I can't basically get so dry conditions because of climate I have. But this should be tested more before I declare this is fact. Only I know from fact, no matter of species, strong red light makes all cacti grow lenght. Quote: I don't need LED, not even think of it.. For cacti. Cannabis is different. I need LED for it. Cacti doesn't flower easily without HEAT.. It's obvious. Gymnocalycium doesn't seems to flower even with heat of sun. I need HEAT, I need strong light. Over winter, spring and summer I have sun. I'm not defensive. I don't just care about what you think of me. I feel you are some kind of hidden LED vendor, barking for money by trying to sell LED for ornament growers. Fluoro is cheap for me to grow seedlings. HPS+MH combo is cheap for me to keep adults over winter indoors. Even they give some heat, it's better than +20C and total darkness. Without water I can get growth stunted and keep dormancy. Why I don't need LED over here at arctic.. it's obvious, IF I don't need to build anything stealth like cannabis grow room.. Then I don't need LED because I need heat from light. Not even fluoro heat enough. They are for seedlings. I don't care how long it takes I have my ornament. Slow growing way by let plants "suffer" dehydraton and then water them again and so on, does the work and appearance for peyote and other lophophora I like. One maybe most critical reason I use now HPS+MH combo, it's best spectrum and I will have UV-B for plants. Also heat from them heat the house similar way compared to small heat radiator. I have failed lots of seedlings beacause lack of heat. Well I use heat mat for seedlings but they are not good for adults, Commercial greenhouse lights are good for columns and keep them in shape, they are above south window, when I want day light with my HPS and MH bulb. I open curtains of the window, you can't say trichs and few other species doesn't like the environment. I care the excess heat off with fans to circulate air. Why I do this? If I want LED for my setup.. I should invest ~800-1000€ or more to get enough LUX and Lumen for all plants in my garden with LED. My fluoros are separated from stronger lights, I use fluoros above and heat mat below because fluoros doesn't generate enough heat. Without heat, what happens? ..lophophora seedlings rot, trichocereus seedlings rot.. They doesn't tolerate a shit of water without daytime +30-40C heat and night time +17-20C. Some seasons I shut my lights off at Jan or Feb. Keep dormant season to till May. There is short summer. Maybe too short because I can't use greenhouse many months but enough I can grow some of my spice and food there.. So I keep cacti also there time I have. But with ornaments, I need to imitate nature from Sepember to May indoors. I use windowsill to get sun when it comes above horizon. I just open my curtains and let plants have sun, when sun shines enough, I can shut HPS and use only sun and MH. And when summer comes more, I can shut MH also. I know fluoros are shit for trichocereus over 1year old. Best way to get them like they should be is add them to windowsill at summer time and forget fluoros and every light. You are right, I need LED for cannabis grow room, HPS are generating too much heat, and my circumstances doesn't allow me to build big area... LED are perfect for that purpose. My cacti doesn't need LED and my wallet doesn't want to spent too much money for LED, it's fact from cannabis growers, same money spent to LED and same money spent to HPS, you can't get nearly as good harvest as you can get with HPS. Ain't that tell you something? Why lots of commercial cannabis grow rooms use HPS, they don't use LED. Harvest are not enough compared to money spent to LED. Also I need to get as much harvest as possible, but with chili, paprika and few other plants. I have two bulbs, blue and yellow. I can illuminate whole room size of 5x5meter and every corner of the room plants stay alive over the winter and are ready to transfer to greenhouse when it's summer.. And cost of my lights are only 150€ Because space are so big, I don't need much of fans to ensure air circulation. Few fan blowing air to plants tip under the HPS and MH are enough. For me this ain't all about cacti.. It's all plants, food plants grown in greenhouse, I need to make my own way to keep them alive over hard winter there what lasts 8months. Greenhouse are is just best for cacti.. There are small ecosystem already.. They are in "dirt" fertilized with compost produced from household organic garbage. I have worms in soil keep soil perfect, I have spiders hunting pests, I have bees pollinating flowers. That ~4-5months time in greenhouse what is heated at start and at end basically "clean off" all bugs what probably comes indoors to plants. This is not so black and white we all need LED. For fuck sake. I need heat to keep my plants alive, I have sun and professional growing lights I can use indoors and when there is enough warm outdoors, I move my plants to greenhouse and let nature do it's job. Because area where I live, one greenhouse are crawling of predatory bugs and I have balance in bug control without any chemicals about 1/3 of the year. More I would invest money for greenhouse and heating of greenhouse over winter and fall. No point of spent money to LED if I can't get heat what is critical for plants to stay alive. And critical for cacti to prevent them not to become prone to rot in "dirt" as you say.. Dirt isn't even same thing than living soil. Quote: Let us europeans idiots smile for this. ![]() C'moooooooooooooon! ![]() Dirt ruin the cacti, soil doesn't.. There is difference about it. Edited by intelligentlife (01/08/14 06:15 AM)
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: Looks like a healthy echinocereus knippelianus maybe that's what you were trying to think of? I just saw a pic of s. rauschii grafted on pedro over at SAB and I'll be damned if it doesn't look normal and globular. Now I'm even more confused. Must be mainly a light/nute issue causing the stretch? I can't imagine what other factors could be involved.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: Those are interesting theories. I live where temps and humidity get very high during the grow season so that may explain it. I will try to remember to make more grafts of some globulars this next growing season and place them in different conditions to see if there is any difference in growth pattern. One thing to note, this only seems to happen with certain species at least in my own experience. I'd be very interested to find out what is causing certain ones to grow columnar rather than globular since I normally keep all my cacti under the same growing conditions. If growing conditions (heat, humidity, light) were the sole cause of this columnar growth, I would have a greenhouse full of columnar grafted lophophora too..but I don't. The columnar growth only appeared on the grafted sulcorebutia rauschii for some reason but not other species. Another possibility is that some species grow columnar in the same growing conditions that other species grow globular. Some species might not be able to handle the same conditions due to their native habitat? I hope we find some answers to this question because I'm very curious. Quote: Many of us feel the same way, but I don't want to throw accusations around without solid evidence to back them up. The only real evidence we have that anne is a shill for an LED company would be her blog and spam posts here constantly praising LED. It's a very possible reality but I personally would need more substantial evidence before I called her out on that. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/08/14 07:14 AM)
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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If that were the case she would probably be plugging a specific manufacturer a whole lot.
Seems to me that the efficiency vs initial price balance changes a lot depending on how much power costs where you are, and that appears to vary quite a bit in different parts of the world. If electricity is pretty cheap then it takes longer to break even on the purchase of an expensive but efficient lighting system. If you have a "smart" power meter then you can increase your effective efficiency by quite a bit just by scheduling your lights to run overnight. In my situation electricity is included in my rent so I just have to guess at a rough ceiling of what I can get away with without my landlord getting annoyed. Adding a lot more wattage is just not an option. More efficient lighting would mean I could light more plants over the winter. As others have said, waste heat can also be a bonus depending on your situation. I have T8s mounted under plywood shelves, and while they're running they heat the shelves above. That seems to encourage the mature ones to flower. It's not cost effective from a standpoint of heating the whole house, but it does put the heat right where it's needed for the plants. Over the summer when waste heat would be a problem, I'm not running the lights anyway because the plants are outside. Long term the most efficient lighting system wins out as long as it continues running past the point where it has "paid off," but that may be quite a while with an expensive light and very cheap power. If prices have been coming down for years and that trend appears likely to continue, it may make sense to hold out longer.
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: She'd be called out pretty quickly if she did that. The best type of shill is the subtle shill and linking her blog in all of her posts is better than directly naming a manufacturer repeatedly. I'm sure she gets paid for her blog so she's likely profiting from advertising LED one way or another. -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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TOAST N' JAM Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,456 Loc: 613 |
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IIRC she has said in the past that people do sponsor her with free equipment. I can't think of any specific examples where she plugged a certain manufacturer on the blog though, and there don't appear to be any ads through google or anything either. If I made LED fixtures and was keeping someone on the payroll to shill for me, I think I'd at least want my specific brand mentioned.
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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It's the only explanation many of us can come up with for why she endorses LED so heavily, despite hard science and data showing it isn't quite optimal for growing yet (not to mention grow pictures are worth a thousand words). They're great if you're looking for a cheap and energy efficient way to light up your house though.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Well I don't said it's fact but I said I feel more and more as the time goes by anne trying to lobby people to buy LED from certain companies.
I don't claim this to be fact, just said I feel like it.. Only I know for fact LED is not perfect light for ornament cactus, it's only suitable for small grow room because these light doesn't generate so much of heat. It's not suitable for large area of plants nor tall columars. I could think only LED for ornamental cacti if I have thousands of € to spend for them, add them to walls around grow room and to the ceiling but there is more effective light tech what will penetrate way more better small foliage and gives effective light meters away from actual bulbs. However, IF annie purpose is to do grow room as small as possible, then LED is best.. But thinking of using them to light big area of different plants indoors, I don't buy it. Maybe later when LED tek are improved enough and they're cheaper. Anne tek are only suitable for certain type of cultivation, it's proven already, but I bet it's not suitable for most of grow rooms/greenhouses whatever people have. One friend of mine use HPS and grow cannabis, he keep cacti over the winter around cannabis plants in his growing tent. IF I go and say "throw your 600W HPS away and buy hundred of € worth of LED.. He probably just think I'm stupid. Well that is totally different environment also and he use HPS only over winter when sun are shining from very low at horizon.. Most of the time he keep cacti at balcony outdoors, enjoying sun. There are lots of growers and lots of different grow rooms. Some grow only columnars, some cobulars, some grow cacti for consumption, some grow for ornamental. It's wrong information to say everyone need to get LED and nothing more.. Some people doesn't use lights at all. Only windowsill sun at winter time and greenhouse over summer. Anne should say the fact LED is only good for small grow rooms and small plants, they are not for everyone.. I could think if some noob demolish the greenhouse, buy shitloads of LED and then starts to think what is wrong when columars starts to grow slim and only tallest plants are not elongating so bad. LED are not best choice for all, only for people who want to grow small plants in small grow room. My "grow room" are living room.. HPS+MH bulbs are above south window, Every plant no matter where they are in the 5x5meter room, they are doing fine and love the light.. Only 150€ investment to have 5x5meter area enough light so every corner of living room where are plants are enjoying. I have cucumber plant spent winter in living room, meters away from my light source, it blooms and doing fine but since it's winter I need to take flowers away and keep it with very low water and wait it's warm enough I can move the to greenhouse. Also chili plants are love to spent "dormant" in my living room corner, meters away from light source. I should obtain too much LED lights to make sure I have enough light to 5x5meter living room and therefor make sure every chili and every cucumber and other ornamental plants are satisfied with the light I offer them. Ofc when summer comes and soon sun shines above horizon, I can slowly start shut down my lights and move most plants to greenhouse and then I don't consume any electricity, in fact my electric bill are smaller than plants under LED because I don't need electricity for nothing at summer time. Anne seems to purposely confuse few basic things, word dirt sounds disgusting and bad, dirt are not even same than living soil organism. I am not against hydro cultivation I have done it myself with another species of plants. However, plants have been in soil millions of years, if it's bad for plants, how the hell they have survived in the nature anyway? This tek should be sold to people who do grafts in small room and small plants without caring the appearance of plants, only what matter is production of mass. One thing more, what really make one strain unique and another not? IMO every peyote grown from seed are different than another seed grown plants. IF this "unique" are only matter of what anne think of plant.. From my perspective, I have seed grown plants, everyone is unique on it's own way.. I know no one have same clone of peyote I have and that makes them unique. OR what is the definition of "unique peyote"? Do anne only have access to declare one from 20k seed grown plants to unique and rest growers doesn't have permission to see their own seed grown plants as unique? Every peyote are unique on their own way.. I just want to know the real factor what makes anne clones unique and another people clones "common ugly dirt shit peyote what is not grow under LED"? I see things differently.. If I sow 20k seeds, every seedling are unique because they are not clones, they are from different seed. Ofc there can be very different plant along these all what can be defined as unique on it's chemical properties or appearance but real, the real unique definition are very poor in my mind. If unique means it's strain what anne have, then unique definition is "peyote from anne" Everything seems to black and white from anne perpective what I have read the posts.. What define unique? What define best? What define noob? Are that "noob" the person who dare ask advice from another growers? and "pro" are person who doesn't "need" to ask any kind of advice form anyone... Maybe some people just want to conversation and same time change their experiences about growing cacti, asking something what should and what should not do does't make anyone noob? And yet, every "noob" I find out are these who say "hello, I don't know this, I ask from you" ..There is nothing bad to advice people, if information is right.. anne can advice people but only those who ask about LED and peyote grafting to pereskiopsis.. no doubt. I don't see "noob" is the person who ask about cacti and still have experience of growing cacti and ask things in the meaning to want to chance ideas with another and start a dialog. And what comes to LED. I have cut off my house lighting from 500W to 40W by using LED to light house, bathroom, kitchen, hall, living room, etc.. Some cheap "white LED" light.. IT's good for that purpose, but IF LED are developed enough, I would say ALL commercial growers would have change their lighting to LED to reduce electric bill because electric consuming eat's profit of business if someone use grow lights.. One good example is commercial cannabis growers who sell their cannabis to legal markets, why they have not change to LED because of cheaper electric bill? maybe because what you save from electric bill, you loose from harvest. But I don't want to mix cannabis anymore to this.. Just saying, why they still use Heat generating electric consuming HPS and not LED? IF LED really are the best, every expert would have done this and cut their electric costs in business but they have not done this.. Isn't what obvious?
Edited by intelligentlife (01/08/14 08:54 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/06/09 Posts: 1,046 Loc: Australia Last seen: 9 years, 8 months |
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Quote: Thats it I couldn't think what it was and I was at work so I couldn't go and look at the tags. Here is one the stretchy ones Here is the other sulcorebutia rauschii not as bad as the other one but it did pup alot more. You can see another one in the photo that was grafted at the same time but the stock is selenicereus. I haven't seen the one at SAB. I will have to go and have a look Cheers Got
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Here's a couple of mine, and the last pic is the one I saw at SAB. That is some crazy growth on the e. knippelianus.
![]() -------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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LED tek is advancing rapidly.
theres a big difference in types and usable quality. the lophship AX1 , is essentially exceeding my outdoor peres. so it works for me. web is actually full of LED grows of all types. its only a mystery to those who dont use them now. in the last 5 yrs or so, i endorse nothing commercially , beyond the technology presented. i will mention brands of things used if asked. but i have zero intent to endorse any specific company or brand. my blog disclaimer specifically says , "we endorse no one." although i have many private sponsors and benefactors, i ask them not to endorse me publicly, to avoid troll attacks and controversy. most of my sponsors, seek testing of seeds , not so much equipment the physics lab, isnt interested in sales, its interested in light feasablity studies . the aerospace industry, doesnt need me to shill lights. ^we get alot of humor from that. as far as unique strains? another thread. im saving the real bomshell stuff for a specific thread. youll be shocked. i have hundreds of pics, of things that will change your views on cacti and lights forever. sorry guys, TA is an indy open source grow tek group for educational purposes only.......... Quote: your right psi, and they do exist, but its not in the frame of reference for many growers yet. its one of the things that makes it so difficult to report on, most growers have a limited frame of reference, on a slow growing few plants over a few yrs. as opposed to my loph manhatten project for the ultra -phora..... --------------------
Edited by anne halonium (01/08/14 10:00 AM)
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Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
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Some column lophs are purely got their form due to environmental factors, but what the factor is yet to find out.
As I have said some spanish grow lophs on their own roots, offshooting and flowering plants in 5 years, watering with fungicides every day constantly and temperatures are over +50C.. It's possible.. These lophs are someway cobular and columnar combination because their conditions are like that and fast grown lophs will in fact grow differently. However, when these sorta columnar and plump up peyote are moved to climate where they are in more cool temperatures and will not watered so often, they shrink, stop growing columnar anymore and otherwise in fact change growth to more flat. This fact about big peyotes full of water and someway columnar shape and they'r appearance change when they're moved to colder climate have told me one of the european biggest peyote vendor. Said never obtain a patch of big lophs from that guy anymore because in his greenhouse they shrink half of their size. That guy have been grown lophs from 70's, I don't doubt that guy doesn't know what he talking about. Oldest and biggest specimens he have are probably over 100yo plants imported from mexico long time ago when it was legal to collect plants. These plants are still in that guy collection, these plants are not in sale like another plants. As I have said he buy and sell but have started long time ago and produce seeds from different habitat imported peyote. Because he buy and sell are just the fact demand are bigger than he have time and space to grow peyote from seed, he grow from seed, sell own seed grown lophs and buy small plants and sell plants from range small to big. Only hard grown small but old plants, for ornament. Afaik some spanish growers doesn't never allow lophs to shrink and then plump up again and so on.. like in their habitat plant does, also they do not keep dormant period at all, just grow fast and it's possible without grafting but there is risk of rotting and molding anyway, also climate should allow that. But the plants grown like that way, plants what never have been got any period of long drought like in their habitat they do, will shrink to very small fast and they're not anymore the size they are buy'd in purpose so sell forwards. And I don't talk about any smartshop loph dealers who sell them for consumption, I talk about ornamental plant vendor who want to keep lophs in shape, epidermis at good condition and so on, it's money for that guy, they need to be good shape and hard grown because they're in fact money. But about what I have heard from that guy, if lophs should be in shape and similar to plants in habitat, they should be grown slow to make them worth of money. But first time I heard about these stretched plump up peyote are from that vendor what are one of the biggest european loph vendors around there. Also I heard they are not worth of buy and sell because when they are moved too cool climate and they starts to get dry periods between watering, they turn ugly and not profitable.. But that guy told me the way how they can be grown from seed very fast if you risk them for rot by every day watering with fungicides... Only it needs to make environment "perfect" and that's how you got fast plump columnar style peyote plants. Sometimes it's genetics will peyote grow columnar or not, but shape can be achieved with certain type of environment.. It's fact. I don't know every step how these spanish growers do it, but one role is fungicide chemicals to prevent rot and mold and one critical factor is very high temperatures, maybe higher than they have in their habitat.. But where to know are peyote appearance caused by environment or light spectrum? Only growers and their own teks know their own ways how to achieve to get these peyote plants.
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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fact is, its a more complex plant,
with dynamic qualities, than the average grower thinks. the mere fact my hyper gardens exist, proves how little we understand them. my experiments, open up many possibilities. thats sorta the point. even simple hydro LED graft threads, open up massive debate. to truly open up my archives, would be apocalyptic at this point in time. but, ya know im gonna do it sooner or later anyway. ^meet one of the horsemen........... you guys get so excited at the " pre threads", and ,ya wonder why i am sitting on poms, and x aerophora? --------------------
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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Quote: I'll never forget all the times I've tripped in the past while gazing at my plants in the back garden. The sulcorebutias are really interactive visually. Those spines on them begin to look like little insects all marching toward the center. They look like that even while sober but the effect is enhanced 10-fold while tripping.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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Quote: Alas,I stopped tripping about a decade ago,but weed still makes things look special if you get some good stuff
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Cacti junky Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 6,648 Loc: The bridgesii br |
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I'm at about the same point, only tripping once a year if that. Priorities change over time and there just aren't enough hours in the day anymore for me to justify a 12+ hour session. In fact I've almost completely dropped cannabis too which I thought I'd never do either. Was going through an oz every month and now I go through maybe a gram a month.
When I do decide to toke up, it's a lot more special that's for damn sure.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Registered: 08/23/08 Posts: 11,017 |
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Quote: I feel ya,I actually quit the herbs,but I started back up It's the single only thing that I think I'll never be able to stop,totally!
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jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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hedonism, leaves me aghast.
heres another one to think about.... exact same conditions for almost a decade, re cloned and re rooted , at least a dozen times in various XHTTL systems , raised here , from seed. we deliberatly went thru thousands and thousands of seeds, for unique specimens , choosing for colors, sizes and shape. because i can generate so many seeds to golf balls at once, its pretty easy to weed thru and get really distinct ones. ancient outdoor wilds, in un disturbed areas, may be monoculture. todays lophs, , wich many are hybrids, are not. global hybridization, is more common than ya think. in a few yrs , they will be as varied as astrophytums.... just when ya thought it was safe huh. ![]() ok , so thats all i feel the need to show here ATM in review, its pretty simple....... hydro pereskiopsis, LED lights , clone em/ graft em / perfect shape.fast. its pretty obvious. ill now turn this thread over to the commentators , who will spend great effort, trying to convince you , that the obvious, is an illusion......... good luck. ( special thanx to "team carrot" on this one) Edited by anne halonium (01/08/14 09:37 PM)
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D
me if you have any for trade


[




The few cacti that I currently have in winter dormancy were all traded/gifted, and I'm sorry you can't just raise a named clone from seed. Wanna see my astro or ferro graph
? You claim that your method is at least 2x as good as dirt, in several categories but have failed to provide substantial proof. I feel I have done an acceptable job of backing my side.



Case and point.



Even if it did, I'd hate to be around when the power bill showed up in the mail.


They look like that even while sober but the effect is enhanced 10-fold while tripping.
It's the single only thing that I think I'll never be able to stop,totally!
