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Issue with a post
    #19093820 -

MagicalOrangutan quoted Albert Hofmann in a post, however he did not post the source. I noticed this quote seemed to be at odds with other commentary of Hofmann's, so I was especially interested in seeing the source. MagicalOrangutan has ignored both my PMs, where I requested the source, despite having responded to several of my PMs in the past. I can only assume that I caught him absent-mindedly paraphrasing Hofmann, and he doesn't want to deal with his mistake. I was hoping that The Shroomery would be willing to edit his post, in the interest of accurate information. Alternatively, he can be asked to change the post so that he's not representing the information in his post as quotes.


MagicalOrangutan said:
I don't know what the point of this is, Hoffman himself said lsa is "qualitatively much different" than real LSD.

He did however say that mescaline is "qualitatively almost identical" to LSD


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18539515#18539515


Hofmann's actual quotes:


Grof: Have you actually tried the ololiuqui yourself? [uh-lowlee-uh-kee]

Hofmann: Yes, I did. But, of course, it is about ten times less active; to get a good effect, you need one to two milligrams.

Grof: And what was that experience like?

Hofmann: The experience had some strong narcotic effect, but at the same time there was a very strange sense of voidness. In this Void, everything loses its meaning. It is a very mystical experience.

Stanislav Grof Interviews Dr. Albert Hofmann. MAPS Bulletin 9.2 (Fall 2001): 22–35.


When I discovered LSD, it was believed it was a product of laboratory. And then we discovered that this compound had existed already for thousands of years in the plant kingdom. Not exactly, but practically.

Albert Hofmann, Hofmann's Potion (documentary).


When I discovered lysergic acid amides in ololiuqui, I realized that LSD is really just a small chemical modification of a very old sacred drug of Mexico.

Stanislav Grof Interviews Dr. Albert Hofmann. MAPS Bulletin 9.2 (Fall 2001): 22–35.


the psychic effects of ololiuhqui, in fact, differ from those of LSD in that the euphoric and the hallucinogenic components are less pronounced

LSD: My Problem Child


The slight difference in chemical structure between the ololiuqui constituents and LSD is very significant with regard to hallucinogenic acitivity. The effective oral dose in man of LSD is 0.05 mg [which] is thus about 50 to 100 times more active than lysergic acid amide, which is active in doses of 2 to 5 mg. Furthermore there is not only a quantitative difference between the principles of Ipomoea violacea and Turbina corymbosa and LSD; there is likewise a qualitative one, LSD being a very specific hallucinogen, whereas the psychic effects of lysergic acid amide and the total alkaloids of these two plants are characterized by a pronounced narcotic component.

Schultes, R.E. & Hofmann, A. (1973). The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens, Chas. Thomas, Springfield, IL, p. 252


After my experience with LSD, I have become cautious: we started by taking doses as small as 0.1 mg., gradually increasing the dosage. With 2 mg. of this crude indole fraction we got clear-cut psychic effects: a dream-like state resulted with drowsiness and alterations in the perception of objects and colors. This showed that the indole fraction of the Rivea extract contained the psychic active principles.

Hofmann, A.: The active principles of the seeds of Rivea Corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea. Botanical Museum Leaflets (Harvard Univ., 1963) vol. 20, pp. 201-202
http://www.botanicus.org/item/31753003541189# (Must select desired volume from the drop-down menu.)


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779]
    #19094271 -

It's TPE. Who gives a shit. There's more misinformation there than in mush cult (which is saying a lot).

Good eye tho.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779]
    #19095814 -

It's not a habit to edit posts with misinformation, that would be censoring, something I don't agree with. Posts only get edited when they contain flaming, sourcing or other such offenses.

If people are posting misinformation it's up to other members to call them out(with respect) and correct it. Post links to sources to back up your side of things, it's then up to people to use logic to make their own conclusions.


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My Ethnobotanical Growing TeksWhere to Start Flow Chart, QnA, and helpful links

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: karode13]
    #19096479 -

I understand what you're saying, but perhaps using quotation marks should be considered crossing the line. And while I wouldn't expect mods to stay on top of this kind of thing, perhaps if somebody takes the time to point out the flaw, like I did, action would be taken.

I don't think it's too much to ask to have the quotation marks removed from the post. Or to PM him and tell him that this is an issue and that something has to be done to the post to remove the misrepresentation that it currently possesses -- either simply getting rid of the quotation marks or changing it around in another way, the decision can be up to him.

I can't believe that someone who I've exchanged PMs with before is blatantly ignoring me for bringing this issue up with him. I find this to be very offensive and immature.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779] * 4
    #19098483 -

I still don't agree. Once we start editing out quotation mark quotes that people take exception to then it opens the doors for more moaning about other post content and where will we end up then?

If the advice quoted was a danger to other users or this website I would edit it. Simply misquoting somebody doesn't call for censoring. You're a good poster and I'm sure you could present the correct facts in a way that shows those misquotes are wrong.

For what it's worth, this is the shroomery and people get butthurt over the silliest things all the time. Don't take it personally.


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My Ethnobotanical Growing TeksWhere to Start Flow Chart, QnA, and helpful links

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779] * 6
    #19099140 -

Wow.  I can't believe you'd post here to complain about this.  People are entitled to be wrong, but you want officials to force them to be right?

Correct him with a post.  The remedy for false information is more information...not censorship.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Issue with a post [Re: karode13]
    #19101433 -

karode13 said:
I still don't agree. Once we start editing out quotation mark quotes that people take exception to then it opens the doors for more moaning about other post content and where will we end up then?

If the advice quoted was a danger to other users or this website I would edit it. Simply misquoting somebody doesn't call for censoring. You're a good poster and I'm sure you could present the correct facts in a way that shows those misquotes are wrong.

For what it's worth, this is the shroomery and people get butthurt over the silliest things all the time. Don't take it personally.



:thumbup:

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: johnm214]
    #19101516 -

The fact that MagicalOrangutan has ignored both my PMs -- where I politely asked for the source -- is an indication of malicious intent, therefore exception should be taken. That's how I feel. He's altering a quote to support his own viewpoint. Given the circumstances, I don't think it's out of the question to simply remove the quotation marks, but otherwise leave the post untouched.

I don't see how addressing the issue of misquoting would open the doors for more sensitive alterations to posts. Sorry, but that's a commonly used excuse: "B and C should be avoided so I'll avoid A as well..."


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779]
    #19101534 -

You're talking about a post from four months ago, dude.  It's time for you to let it go.  The guy has no duty to be honest here, and you don't even know if his quote is accurate or not.  He may very well have a source.

In any case, it's time to let go.  Stressing for 4 months about some random post that you find inaccurate is unhealthy and likely indicative of an obsession.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779]
    #19101617 -

It's not censorship, by the way. Hofmann is the one being censored, if you think about it.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: s240779]
    #19101625 -

He's been dead for years. He has no further right to free speech.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Issue with a post [Re: Enlil]
    #19106649 -

Da2ra said:
MagicalOrangutan quoted Albert Hofmann in a post


That is a lie. He quoted Hoffman not Albert Hofmann. He might have been quoting Eddie Hoffman who lives next door.


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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Re: Issue with a post [Re: THE KRAT BARON] * 1
    #19106894 -

I thought he was quoting Dustin Hoffman.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Issue with a post [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19107987 -

I think his attempts at contorting and outright censoring the words of Eddie and Dustin is reprehensible.


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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