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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The Illusion of Romantic Love
    #1895217 - 09/08/03 06:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If romantic love were "real" and not a business deal then statisitics would not show consistent patterns.

The best-looking babes go for as much power as they believe they can get. This power can take the form of position/prestige: the football jock; the senator; the movie star; or physical size or money.

The most powerful men (with the exception of George Bush Sr.) go for the most beautiful and desirous and youngest women that they feel they can get.

Argue all you want, the facts bear this out. Don't believe me? As an experiment, check out the online personal ads. Look through 100 or so ads posted by females. Pick out the 10 most beautiful (to you) women between say ages 25-40 and the 10 least desirable looking for a long-term relationship rather than a purely physical liason. The most beautiful will on average DEMAND a taller man (about 6' 3") with well-above average income (around $150,000 per year) and a home-owner. Some differences for various age groups will naturally apply. Now compare to the least attractive and check their requirements and do the math.

Many of you here are younger and seemingly different attraction rules apply, but not really. Once in the "real" adult world for any length of time, the number one attraction to a woman is security followed by confidence and then appearance; perhaps humor and intelligence add somewhat to the equation. Nowhere does any mystical spiritual something come into play. Whether male or female, it all comes down to: "What can you do for me?"

I can already feel the lame anecdote coming on about a beauty and the beast combo...[i/]


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895238 - 09/08/03 06:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

wtf? new avatar?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: ]
    #1895241 - 09/08/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, that is a picture of me on a high dose of DMT.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: ]
    #1895244 - 09/08/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

same bitter attitude :smirk:

 


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1895271 - 09/08/03 07:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

oh and may your days be filled with cheap meaningless sex my friend.

because everyone knows only suckers believe in Love...


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OfflineLucidsPuppet
Puppet Master

Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 60
Loc: in a box...
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1895284 - 09/08/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

infidelGOD said:
oh and may your days be filled with cheap meaningless sex my friend.

because everyone knows only suckers believe in Love...




:lol:


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I feel so used...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1895286 - 09/08/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

same bitter attitude

Is acceptance of reality the "way it is", bitter?

Is that negative assessment of me the best you can offer as a point for romantic love being more than mere biology? ("Gee Swami, I cannot refute your statement so I will try the well-worn ad hominem...)"


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLucidsPuppet
Puppet Master

Registered: 09/08/03
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Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895314 - 09/08/03 07:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Jeebus Swami, u could put God himself in Therapy with all
this reductionism... :tongue: 


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I feel so used...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: LucidsPuppet]
    #1895339 - 09/08/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do you have a point to make?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineHereticalOrthodoxy
Seeker
Registered: 08/22/03
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Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1895351 - 09/08/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

My take is that what is sold as romantic love is a denial of reality in that it does not accept suffering and sacrifice. Meaningful relationships can be built, but they are not fairy tales, they require a taming of the self and mindful attention to our higher selves. There is no one it is so easy to disparage, take for granted or hurt as a mate. The illusions of romantic love perpetuated by vapid movies (made-to-fit-one-another soul mates and frictionless unions) result in attempts to live fantasy the failure of which result in unspoken hostility and divorce.
Love should be about mutual elevation, but yes, the personal ads are full of what the world is full of: people with an unhealthy fixation on the accumulation of material goods. Lovely ladies with materialistic hearts are likely to parley thier looks into cash via rich men looking for trophy wives.
However, I do believe a love deeper than materiarial grasping can be had, indeed I think I have an example of it in my life. It looks nothing like the movies. It has involved painful adjustments of small failings for both of us. It has weathered fury, lust, stupidity and pride. It is not a panecea, it does not end the search for meaning in life and "happily ever after" takes more than just being there. But there is a "mystical spiritual something" to use your phrase Swami. Life is a mystical spiritual something, and finding another "I" to share in it is nity-grity spirituality, it has edges and thorns, just like most things.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895359 - 09/08/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So just because physical appearance is an important factor, that means romantic love doesn't exist?  :wtf:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLucidsPuppet
Puppet Master

Registered: 09/08/03
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895361 - 09/08/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Do you have a point to make?



Other than to jest about everything and
break the shackles of seriousness and
self importance...no not really, I have
no point to make at all... I seem to
be unwelcome here, I'll go outside n howl
at the moon now...


--------------------
I feel so used...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895363 - 09/08/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

there was no ad hominem there as I was just describing the tone of your post. I don't think you're a bitter person at all.

but I think your being pretty cynical here. you say love is an illusion.. yet I'm certain that you have felt it sometime in your life, and saw it as something Real and wonderful. maybe you got older and wiser... but was it not real when you felt it? Is it not real when I feel it? when other young people feel it? why? because you've reduced it to a "business deal"?

OK so you probably already think I'm a sap for believing in love... let me put it this way - some people reduce the psychedelic experience to a chemical interaction in the brain and say that the experience is an "illusion". But whatever the cause, it is real, we've all felt it. whatever you may believe, Isn't it still a powerful experience that can be life-changing?


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InvisibleTrippeeChik
Stranger
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Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 2,006
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1895430 - 09/08/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

'the illusion of statistics'


--------------------
look buddy,,


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Offlinemetalchimp
bionic monkey

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 355
Loc: Cambridge, England
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: HereticalOrthodoxy]
    #1895442 - 09/08/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

off the subject completely but did you know that nitty-gritty was the bowels of a slave ship were called, this was where the female slaves were taken to be raped, "lets get down to the nitty-gritty"

on subject, on a basic (& cynical) level I would agree with swami most (unthinking) women & men are functioning on that level, what they think is important,

love never has or will be the way disney or films portray it, thats what we'd like but its not that easy (never is)
It is however very real, I think you are deliberately ignoring interactions between people because they are too complex to synopsize into a theory,
I have been & will continue to be in love till I die, unfortunately I am no longer with the one I love & after a year am coming to terms with living without that person
you shouldnt lump everyone into that catagory just because most people are shortsighted, people in ads are aiming too high materialistically, thus necessitating the need to take out a personal ad!
instead they should be concentrating on the person, not the accessorys (money, wealth beauty)


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1895514 - 09/08/03 08:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

is it not a 'survival of the fittest' scenario translated into a modern context?
the female of the species seeks a mate to most able to provide her with food, security, etc. in the cases of animals that operate in groups, the dominant male is generally the one that gets to sow his seed. by our umm modern enlightened standards, being loaded with $$$ is a form of security and a means to obtain food and comfort.

beauty and strength are the opposite extremes of the same thing, just as hot and cold are the extremes of temperature.
hence, great beauty requires an opposing degree of strength (read money, power) to create balance.
am i getting too simplistic here?
love? a happy by-product? is love a human only premise? i have read of elephants who were devoted to their mates. at the death of one the other never left its partners place of death, pined away and died.


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OfflineGanjaManDan
Blazin' Phatties
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: mr crisper]
    #1895577 - 09/08/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Swami, what you said is so true...

Except for lots of people around the world who are truly in love...

An example? My parents :P


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: GanjaManDan]
    #1895966 - 09/08/03 11:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

GanjaMan!, I completely agree with you!

What swami said is mostly true... romantic love is very selfish... when two people come together its like two beggars because they both want from each other...

true love is compassion and giving...it needs nothing... but one thing that Swami left out is that alot of people see a girl or a man as a holding pure love... which is an illusion... but the intention is still to find happiness and that can lead to selfless love which has raised alot of very beautiful people

The people of the earth who I see that shine with love (not romantic) had to have been born to somone...and their parents are amazing roll models... we have all had feelings of lust and looked at the prettiest girls... but in the end our intentions were only to gain happiness and those methods obviously dont hold it for us... swans mate for life... and I think that although the love of another person is not going to liberate us from our suffering... that alot of good things have come from it and there exists some very pure intended romantic-love...

a saint once said (not reffering to romantic love) that Love (compassion, forgiveness, patients, wisdom) is the one thing that we can give which will never diminish

I think appreciating what we have (counting our blessings) and finding contentment can lead to alot of happiness and pure love which cant be obtained outside of ourselfs...

were always looking outside of ourselfs... in twinkies...in pretty girls... which holds the most happiness for i? when I think about how in the blink of an eye I will be no more than dust I want to help people who suffer and that to me is the most valuable and fulfilling...

it feels better to give than to receive IME....this love is also a method to eliminate ego and selfishness i beleive


--------------------
I&I


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Swami]
    #1896178 - 09/09/03 12:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Once in the "real" adult world for any length of time, the number one attraction to a woman is security followed by confidence and then appearance; perhaps humor and intelligence add somewhat to the equation.




Do you offer classes on understanding women? Seriously, different women are attracted to different types of men. How about those women who are attracted to losers who beat them and their children? What you are are writing about is not romantic love. Oftentimes, romantic love will conflict with the types of standards you describe and most women will go for the security over romance (for long term relationships).


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: The Illusion of Romantic Love [Re: Autonomous]
    #1896241 - 09/09/03 12:19 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

you can't put a statistic on an emotion. I'd like to find the "expert" who would research this. Anyway, I agree that more beautiful women have "higher" standards, but I think romantic love exists. I do however agree with the fact that most women want security, and then confidence, but man there are other ways. I've seen plenty of examples of how a guy can treat a chick like shit, have NO money, and she still stays only because he can, for lack of a better terms, dick her down well. I think its only when we don't have expectations for someone and really appreciate who they are that real love will exist. and I know this has happened upon many occasions.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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