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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Path vs. Love
    #1222720 - 01/16/03 05:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Last night I broke up with my girlfriend of three years. It wasn?t the hardest thing I?ve ever had to do, but certainly ranked in the Top Five.

Ours was a relationship of traditional role/gender reversal. I was the emotional/spiritual component and she was the rational/material component. And this arrangement worked well on a lot of levels. Early on I thought of it as the classic Union of Opposites.

Year One was a lot of fun. We moved to a new city and got amazing jobs. She was vibrant and enjoyable to be around. Sixty years ago she would have been called ?a real classy dame.? Movies, clubs, shopping. Birthdays and Christmas were great. She listened to me ramble on about my interests with what I thought were encouraging smiles. But I do have a tendency to ?go on & on? about spirit and science and philosophy, or at least my particular brand, which admittedly isn?t for everyone. Shouldn?t she have said it wasn?t for her?

Year Two was difficult. The constant material drive was starting to grate on me. Early in Year One she had claimed she was a ?shallow and selfish? person. We were at a party and I had thought she was being all self deprecating and facetious and I found it charming. Now I learned she had been telling the truth. She was also very intolerant of any spirituality that wasn?t her own. And her own was practically non-existent. I would like to say that we had lively debates on these (for me) important subjects. But as far as she was concerned, I was wrong in all my thinking and it wasn?t even worth coming to an understanding over. It wasn?t that she had lied about her beliefs. It was just that she didn?t believe them very strongly and really hadn?t said much about them. But for her the Rapture was a good possibility and Hell had a physical location somewhere in the Earth. Now I love a good surprise as much as the next person but this was a little much.

We took a test. You know that one which surveys your beliefs and then tells which major world religions best fit your system? We both took that test and I came out Mahayana Buddhist with a strong dose of Neo-Paganism and Gnosticism.

Her test results came back Orthodox Quaker. One hundred percent.

We had a good laugh over that.

But in the end, around the start of Year Three, it wasn?t funny anymore. Everyone has goals in life and when you partner up with someone you hope that they will support those goals. I?m not a lazy man or an ascetic. I enjoy work and I work hard and I enjoy the rewards of work. I?m not anti materialist and I love to share the wealth. This fit in great with her goals; I was quite ready to help her be a success by her standards. The house, car, nice things. No problem. Easy. I would stand beside her. I loved her.

But to do so, I would have to change my own criteria for success and forsake my spiritual path, which I have been on for nearly 15 years. She made this clear several months ago. In the end she would not stand beside me as I struggled along on this path that has challenged and rewarded me so greatly that I simply cannot imagine abandoning it. For her though, I would have to give up the practice, the meditations, the sacred plants. I would have to give up the idea of ever having a spiritual discussion with the person I loved and lived with. No politics in this house. No religion either. Not much of anything, really. Just pleasant meals and board games and Buffy re-runs on the television. I was horribly sad for many months as I contemplated my choices. It felt like death. I looked to the future and saw nothing of value.

There was a brief period of professional counselling just before Christmas, which I initiated, so desperate I was to find some way to reconcile two wildly different world-views. But all the doctor could tell us was that some couples partition their lives. Live together and share some things, but not all. As soon as it was said, I knew it couldn?t be done. I couldn?t do that. That would be like living with a stranger. Privately he told me that mystics (which he felt I was) must often go on alone and that I should prepare myself for that.

Last night I made my decision. And so I put it to you, fellow Shroomerites: the Path or the Love, such as it is?

Did I make the right decision?




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OfflineTeTr0
Mmmmmmmmmm

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 787
Loc: Right here, where I belon...
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1222775 - 01/16/03 06:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Only you know what is right for you. Some day you will find someone that you love & fits your needs. It sounds to me as though you would not have been a very happy person had you stayed in that relationship, so I would think that you made the right decision for yourself.


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I know what you want, I can give it to you.


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OfflineMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1222802 - 01/16/03 06:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

From my limited perspective, I would say you made the right decision. Too many people are afraid to end relationships they know are less than satisfactory because they are afraid of being alone and having to start anew. But spending time in a dead end relationship is just wasting time that could be spend finding your actual soul mate. I'm actually in a similar situation as you, but we've only been going out for 3 months so I'll wait and see how things develop as we get deeper. I wish you the best man, and don't feel any regrets.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1222904 - 01/16/03 07:01 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well-done, my friend.

Choose the Path above all.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: Strumpling]
    #1222917 - 01/16/03 07:06 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Well-done, my friend. Choose the Path above all. 




See, I'm in such a state that this sounds like sarcasm to me.  In which case my own doubts are reflected in your words.  But if it was well intended, then thank you for your thought.

:crazy: 


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Anonymous

Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1222926 - 01/16/03 07:11 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The Path is first because the Path is Love.

Spiritual enlightenment has many forms but bereft of love in action they mean nothing. The action takes many forms.

Do as you will.


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,275
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223020 - 01/16/03 08:11 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

How would you consider things if you both had a child ?
Just curious .... i'm also asking to everyone else...

MAIA





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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineTeTr0
Mmmmmmmmmm

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 787
Loc: Right here, where I belon...
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: MAIA]
    #1223043 - 01/16/03 08:19 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Do you mean if they had a child together & were in this situation?


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I know what you want, I can give it to you.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: MAIA]
    #1223105 - 01/16/03 08:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How would you consider things if you both had a child ?
Just curious .... i'm also asking to everyone else...




This ties in, actually. As far as life goals go, one of the things I would like to experience is parenthood - I believe that is a little further along the way, but it's there nonetheless. And she wants no part of that. She'd talk about adopting a little Asian child "because it would go well with the oriental decor" (not kidding here, though I thought she was) but otherwise did not want kids at any point.

But to your question... if we did have a child together, I would stay within the relationship but I would insist (gently) on being the source for spiritual values. And perhaps that would be good for all concerned.

As I said (and regret) it was good on many levels but on this core issue we continually got stuck. I tried to be like water, you know? But she's a stone. Well, the water flows round the stone and heads on its way.



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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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OfflinefollowingApath
Bmo
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 5
Loc: Me
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223110 - 01/16/03 08:47 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure some of you guys must of read Sidharther(sp?) by Herman Hesse. Sounds prety analgous except the_landlotter never lost sight of the path.

A case could also be made though that Sidharther needed to spend that time to apreciate the more homely aspects of life and love them all.

Tough times man, i realy i felt for you reading that. I think you just gave tangibilty to a deap fear of of mine. Thanx fo sharin


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Passion vs. Detachment
What a conflict eh?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223124 - 01/16/03 08:51 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Just pleasant meals and board games and Buffy re-runs on the television.

Sounds brutal. I have long dreamed of a simple relationship like that. Please PM me her e-mail adddress.

Do a search and read my Tarot story. It might just be relevant.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: followingApath]
    #1223142 - 01/16/03 08:56 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sure some of you guys must of read Sidharther(sp?) by Herman Hesse. Sounds prety analgous except the_landlotter never lost sight of the path.




Never thought I'd get compared to Siddharta. That is such a beautiful book. Thanks but I'm not worth the comparison...

I do feel as though these past three years have clarified my desires somewhat, due to such close interaction and grappling with the opposite view, trying (and often succeeding) in appreciating the good parts of her. But there was no reciprocation on her part. Didn't want to even come close to understanding where I was coming from. And I'm pretty clear about things; it's not like it would have been hard.

Argh. Duality again. Is there no escape?!

Rhetorical question.


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223150 - 01/16/03 08:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

On a separate note, many years ago I broke up with a woman I loved dearly, for 3 main logical reasons only to find out later that she was a major part of my path and that the "reasons", though sound, were quite trivial in retrospect. I regret it to this day. We both made several half-hearted attempts to reconnect, but remember that the bond once broken, is almost impossible to repair.

How do you know if romantic love is real? Would you put the other's happiness before your own? No, not in a doormat or wimpy way, but in an authentic fashion. If you can answer yes, then the love is real. If you love someone merely because they compliment you and make you feel good, then then answer is no.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: Swami]
    #1223155 - 01/16/03 09:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds brutal. I have long dreamed of a simple relationship like that. Please PM me her e-mail adddress.




Actually, way back a year ago when I started lurking round here I told her bout you, Swami.  "There's this guy on the SPS from California who shuts down all the mystics and cranks!" 

:wink:

"Bout time someone did," she said.  Yeah, she liked the sound of you.

Course, I have you here on the board, Swami, to put me in my place ... 's a little harder with the female equivalent at home. 


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: Swami]
    #1223172 - 01/16/03 09:08 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you can answer yes, then the love is real. If you love someone merely because they compliment you and make you feel good, then then answer is no.




Once she got going with the honesty, it quickly became apparent that her idea of loving someone was based on whether that person was "good company" -- in which case the aforementioned "pleasant meals, board games and Buffy re-runs" would be (and are in many ways) just fine. But there was no way it could go deeper and the connection between us was always tentative at best. Her "good company" could be anybody; who I was and what was important to me didn't figure. Again, not for my lack of trying.


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,150
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223177 - 01/16/03 09:10 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i know EXACTLY where your coming from, dear friend... i broke up with my 2 year girlfriend in november last year... because of exactly the same reasons... and a few more that were included in the problem... she lives in ecuador, and im in germany... so i would have had to give up not only my spiritual path, which is as important for my as existance itself, but also the life, friends and everything i have built up in this country (especially my band)... it took me a LONG time to realize this... i kept fooling myself into believing she was "the one", when actually the one is anyone you chose... there was most certainly a connection between us, and i had a GREAT time of laughter, joy, and fun with her... but we are representants of 2 completely different worlds, and i was tired of giving up things for her... shakespeare had it right "betrayal of yourself in order to not betray another is betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal"... and i was sick of betraying myself... now i have a new-found love, which shares the same interests and world views i have... i cant say the relationship is easy, but i have the view of a future, and i know this person will never ask me to betray myself, and always support my goals and above all my path... im still getting used to my new girlfriend, and sometimes i think i entered the new relationship too soon... i guess i will have to see... im still a little caught up on my ex, and i have to let go... which sadly wont be possible until i see her again and have a long talk... i hate when things end like they did, but it was my freedom that was in risk... and love does not bind... it gives wings, it makes you free... i miss her sometimes, tho and i think itll take a while till that stops... but that doesnt keep me from finally going MY WAY... i hope my experience was a little bit of help... only you can know if what you did was right...

namast


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,150
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: In(di)go]
    #1223197 - 01/16/03 09:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

oh! and one more thing... try and put your hands on a copy of "the mastery of love" by don miguel ruiz... that book opened my eyes to SO MANY things that people do in relationships... not only in romantic ones... i definitely recommend that book for everyone!


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InvisibleMountainMist
Stranger

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223282 - 01/16/03 09:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I would echo the words of our wonderful moderator, Mr. Mushrooms: the Path is Love.

But do not confuse the path that is divine love with the limited love of a romantic entanglement, which is an admixture of love and other things, including ego (the desire for pleasure and for BEING loved) and fear (of being alone, of not being loved), etc.

From the sound of it, your former girlfriend is on a completely different page. There is nothing wrong with that: we all arrive eventually. And there IS something to be said for living with a difficult woman: Socrates' wife was apparently a shrew, and he wouldn't have had it any other way. Dealing with difficulties strengthens the philosophical backbone.

But in the final analysis, any woman who wants to adopt an Asian child because it would "go well with the Oriental decor" is going to be a hindrance to your deepest and most profound aspirations. And banish any thoughts of "helping her" because you won't really know the best means for doing so until you have realized Yourself. That would be like her drowning and clinging to you for life, but you can't swim. So you both drown.

I think you made the right decision. But even if you have broken that particular tie with her, hold her in your heart as somebody who taught you a great deal, who helped you reaffirm your spirituality. She was your Guru. Love her for that.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: the_Landotter]
    #1223428 - 01/16/03 11:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

were all on schedule it seems... well almost. i broke up with my gf of 2 years a week and half ago. my friend broke up with his gf. i think its one of the best things to happen though in our relationship for a long while, she could never see who i was and i could never please her. which is all fine thats how shit goes you know. i was so scared at first like i knew all this was gonna happen, but my mind started twisting bending and getting real fucked up then it relented and finally i easily let go over a period of time and like when it happened last week when we broke up it didnt really matter. my life been replayed for me so many times its not really surprising what happens anymore. i learned a very important lesson, dont ever think you can go into something and thats gonna be it like its for sure and all that your mind tells you, cause just like everything else people change. remain true to who you are and youll be alright, this is what im learning now anyway... trying to find who i am find my path. and it just seemed too selfish to try and pour all love on to one person cause i mean when you think about it you feel like other things are escaping into that love making it unpure. so ill deal with it as it comes, it wasnt everything.... what was everything , was all that was around what i thought was the goal. o well, times wrapped around for me, think ill just be shot into space again. i think its just one of those grand fuck ups meant to teach you all that you failed to grasp before you went into the relationship. well i feel ya man, i think we all do here on the boards and everywhere else. let what is be.


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What?


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,150
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Path vs. Love [Re: MountainMist]
    #1223528 - 01/16/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

couldnt have said it better myself!


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