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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: Zahid]
    #843514 - 08/26/02 07:16 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

You are listening to the whispers of Satan, my friend.

Me too Me too.

And Satan is telling me that all this talk about masturbation is making me want to go jerk off. And I will NOT feel guilty about it either. Maybe a little sleepy...
Can anyone show me some quotes from these religious texts that say we can't jerk off? I guess this isn't directed at muslims since it's ok for them to be pedophiles according to their profit, mohammed. And no I didn't spell that wrong.

And with all this religious mumbo jumbo about jerking, I want to ask a question.
What does god/allah/moses/buddha think about the act of sitting on your ass typing words into a plastic box? Do they mention that as a way to heaven in these books? Im pretty sure god would be pissed at all the sloth/laziness of some of his so-called saved ones. Please use quotations and references in your answers. Thanks


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #844397 - 08/26/02 02:39 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

The Gnostic description differentiates the 'psychic' believer from the 'spiritual believer.'

This is a perverted belief, Markos. Why is your relationship with God any different from any other Christian, Jew, or Muslim? Once again, Shaytaan is whispering in your ear. Why do you disobey the scriptures (your self admitted masturbation, sexual relations outside of marriage), call the common believer a fanatic, and above that, believe your experience with God is more enlightening, more deep than the average believer? Do you even repent to God?

What fundamentalism is to one person, isn't to another. What isn't fundamentalism to one person, is to someone else.

I am not a Sufi, but I understand their approach. I am not generalizing to "all" Sunni Muslims, since I really do not know each and every one of them, but I do know that no human can conform to the dictates of the written laws with completeness

No, you don't know each and everyone one of them obviously, but you should know Sunnism within Islam is the comfirmed way the Prophet taught us to practice Islam. Obviously no one is perfect, that is why we repent. This doesn't mean we can do whatever we want. Since you felt the need judge the Prophet in one of your previous posts, suggest Christ masturbated, I can only imagine what other beliefs you hold to heart. I can only suggest you desist from your 'Mysticism' and start obeying the rules God has sent down to man, not the rules from man. Mysticism is an innovation of what you percieve as a more enlightening relationship with God, a relationship that lets say, fundamentalists don't have with God. And thank you for correcting me on the difference between egoism, and egotism. You just had too, right?


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Edited by Zahid (08/26/02 04:06 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: Zahid]
    #844631 - 08/26/02 04:13 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

My simple admissions of humanity are not proud proclamations. Have I had sexual play and intercourse before I was married? Yes, of course. Have I ever raped, molested, assaulted, deceived or ripped off a lady? No. I believe that you are a virgin. I remember when I was, and how self-righteously attached I was to that state. After all, it was sure proof of my self-control and superior morality to all the depraved dopers and drinkers that inhabited college life, right? I eventually became honest with myself, and came to realize that all this asceticism was a more subtle form of ego-aggrandizement, not genuine spirituality.

You not only have no real sexual experience, you are years away from integrating a normal (not by my subjective assessment, but by standards that all but an obsessed individual whom you would be in agreement with) degree of sexuality into your personality. You are speaking primarily out of projection, projective identification, rationalization, and a good deal of reaction-formation in which your conscious attitude toward sexuality matches the equally intense measure of your repressed sexual desire. Of projection and projective identification, you merely put onto others that which you have consciously rejected and therefore repressed as 'evil.' In your case - a typical case - sexuality is so unfulfilled that it has loomed into a great Shaitan. Like the witch-persecutors who projected their desires onto 'enchantingly' beautiful women, who no doubt wanted no part of such men; and who in turn blamed the women for enchanting or bewitching them; and like the Muslim men who likewise project their desires onto women, making them wear ridiculous coverings over their normal feminine beauty so as not to 'tempt' men; you have selected me as a 'screen' upon which to project your own rejected and despised sexuality. Feel free...this process is a transference phenomenon of which I am more than familiar as a therapist.

You see, there are more psychotics with 'Christ delusions,' delusions of grandeur, the messianic complex, than most any other delusion in the West. With full blown paranoia, and ego-inflation pushed conceptually as far as one can conceive of it, the 'logic' of such inflation is to be God as one's culture tends to envision Him. You are also inflated, though not to psychotic proportions. In order to express such indignation - to ASSUME such offense in the Name of Almighty God - is to take on a responsibility that far outstrips any real role that you have in life. No clergyman of any faith I have encountered, who is balanced - who knows that his role as a clergyman does not necessarily make him holier than, say, some devout grandmother in his charge, takes the self-righteous offense that you do. AS IF you are the very voice of the Prophet. I have met a few Saint Paul's in my day, and know of a fascinating case of 'The Three Christs of Ipsalanti,' about 3 psychotics in the Ipsalanti Hospital for the Mentally Ill who all had Christ delusions - who they put together in order to study the spiritual one-upmanship that ensued. Even Saint Paul identified himself as a maker of tents (probably big leather ones for the Roman legionnaires). What role other than your exalted missionary in the Name of your God have you revealed at this forum? Shared any human flaws with anyone, besides the fear that you have accidentally offended the Almighty with a wrong mental conception? God forbid! Even the flaw[s] you reveal are of an exalted type. What could be worse from a being who is so totally the utterly loyal slave of Allah? These other sins, like jacking off...now THAT is REALLY perverse!
With all of the slaves and concubines and wives that the Old Testament patriarchs had, do you mean to say that lust was not a big, big thing? Please. Your very religion supposedly originates with a sexual indiscretion between Abraham and his servant Hagar, so anxious was he to produce progeny, and so unwilling to believe that Sarah could conceive. Sexuality comprises a huge portion of Scriptural writings. Assuming of course that any of this happened at all.

Your faith may be real, only God knows, but few humans will be impressed with a faith so rigid, and so ensconsed in obsessive-compulsive concerns, and defense mechanisms that are dressed in religious language. A rebuttal and defense from you is inevitable, but frankly, this kind of dialogue is just wearisome and boring. I am open to correction, and will concede to it. I have had my positions on topics as big as capital punishment changed completely by some of the souls at this forum. I have apologized for wrongly assuming too much negativity about youthful substance users (indicting some of my own hypocrisy), and I have acquired knowledge about music, drug effects and other things here. But it is pointless to dialogue with anyone who will not learn. I am not communicating with you, I am running a descriptive monologue. If I was doing therapy with you, my patience would be greater, but I am not so it isn't. I have much to learn in life, but you have lessons to learn in simple humanity that I learned long ago, and you are simply not in any position to preach to me until those lessons have been learned. Much later.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #844737 - 08/26/02 04:52 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I don't like running in circles.

My simple admissions of humanity are not proud proclamations. Have I had sexual play and intercourse before I was married? Yes, of course. Have I ever raped, molested, assaulted, deceived or ripped off a lady? No.

The sins of sexual play and intercourse before marriage are not synonymous to rape, molestation, and assault. You have no need to even mention them. Even you should see the flaw in that sentence.

You're obviously older and wiser than me, but your assumptions of who I am are based entirely how I conduct myself on this message board, which is not how I conduct myself in reality. On the internet I'm arrogant, and loud. You don't even know the first thing about me, or why I reverted to Islam in the first place. You don't even believe Muhammad was a real messenger, so there is going to be a bias (a bias I have already noticed on your part) that even both of us might have. But, I do have the intelligence and reason to see that you are not obeying the scriptures (without them, there wouldn't be an established message) of the faith you follow. I'm quite sure you believe the hypocrites are correct in their beliefs (correct me if I'm wrong).

But it is pointless to dialogue with anyone who will not learn. I am not communicating with you, I am running a descriptive monologue. If I was doing therapy with you, my patience would be greater, but I am not so it isn't. I have much to learn in life, but you have lessons to learn in simple humanity that I learned long ago, and you are simply not in any position to preach to me until those lessons have been learned. Much later.

And you're saying I have the inflated ego?

Once again, you're taking a shady exit from the straight path with your introspective, mystic approach of faith. My last post was a response to your religious perversion (of course, mystics don't see it that way), which you evaded entirely in an under-the-belt analysis of me (Who are you to do that?). Perhaps my preaching is ego inflation. What you just said to me is an ego inflation of a more disturbing kind. But go ahead, shrug off everything I say as foolish fundamentalist ramblings of some young Muslim punk. Lessons to learn in simple humanity? This is where you contradict yourself. I'm sure this dialogue has been benevolent for us both.


Later..


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Edited by Zahid (08/26/02 05:22 PM)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Registered: 07/27/01
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Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: World Spirit]
    #845618 - 08/27/02 03:03 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Self love = masterbation = guilty conscience [Re: Zahid]
    #845741 - 08/27/02 04:56 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Do make sure to look up that concept of 'reaction formation', 'cuz that's the first one that popped in my head...

Ever wonder about the unconscious motivations of extremist radicals at the picket lines? They invest sooo much time and energy into it.... Ever wonder how their perspective might change if they invested that time and energy into building a rich social, sexual life?

Anywayzzzzz..... hope yer day is full of surprises and laughter......... blessings, CJ


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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