Prisoner#1 said:

luvdemshrooms said:

Because it's been shown that states with liberal firearms laws have lower rates of violent crime?

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like california who has some of the strictest laws in the nation but
they have 1400 gun related homicides per year

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Mafeki said:

okay lets look at other countries this time..

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The United States has a very high rate of firearm death

Using recent data from the World Health Organization (WHO), this paper provides striking evidence on the size of the U.S. problems of gun homicide, overall homicide, gun suicide, and unintentional gun death compared to other advanced countries—for both genders and every age group.

Richardson, Erin G; Hemenway, David. Homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm fatality: comparing the United States with other high-income countries, 2003. Journal of Trauma, 2011; 70:238-43.

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1. In Jamaica, most gun homicides occur during disputes or are revenge killings.

We read the police narratives for every homicide in Jamaica, 1998-2002. The murder rate has been increasing steadily in Jamaica, and most of the murders are with firearms.  The principal motives are disputes and revenge.  Drugs, gangs, and political killings are no longer the main factors associated with murder.

Lemard, Glendene; Hemenway, David. Violence in Jamaica: An analysis of homicides 1998-2002. Injury Prevention. 2006; 12:15-18.


2. In Canada, most firearm deaths occur within 24 hours of the shooting

Using data for all firearm-injured patients in the Canadian National Trauma Registry, we evaluated demographic and causal factors of injury.  We found that about 40% of the shooting victims died in-hospital, with 83% of fatalities occurring on the first day.  ISS score, first systolic blood pressure, first Glasgow Coma Scale score, male gender and self-inflicted injury were all predictors of in-hospital death.

Finley, Christian J; Hemenway, David; Clifton, Joanne; Brown D Ross; Simons, Richard K; Hameed S Morad.  The demographics of significant firearm injury in Canadian trauma centres and the associated predictors of in-hospital mortality.  Canadian Journal of Surgery. 2008; 51:197-203.


3. In Mexico as in the USA, more guns = more gun suicide; gun ownership levels are not related to non-gun suicide

We assess the relationship between handgun prevalence and firearm suicide across the 32 states of Mexico for 2005.  Where there were more handguns, there were more firearm suicides.  There was no relationship between handgun prevalence and non-firearm suicides.

Miller, Matthew; Borges, Guiherme. Firearms and suicide in Mexico: Intimations of mortality. Journal of Youth Studies. In press.


4. Israel and Switzerland are not awash with firearms

Gun advocates cite Switzerland and Israel as exemplars of nations with widespread gun ownership, permissive gun laws, and encouragement of armed civilians who can deter and thwart shootings.  These claims are evaluated with analysis of the International Crime Victimization Survey data and translation of laws and original source material.  Compared with the United States, Switzerland and Israel have lower rates of gun ownership, stricter gun control laws, and their policies discourage gun ownership.

Rosenbaum, Janet E. Gun utopias? Firearm access and ownership in Israel and Switzerland. Journal of Public Health Policy. 2012; 33:46-58.

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Wow.

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In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles (fully automatic, or "selective fire") stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 models. Additionally, there are some 320,000 semi-auto rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million.[7]
In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the USA.[8]

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I almost want to come in and write about how you are wrong, but reading that switzerland isn't evidence of anything is beyond ridiculous. Their firearms murder is so low they don't even keep numbers and it's estimated at 50-70 per year.

Compare that to say Venzeula where there was 21,000+ murders with firearms and guns are banned for civilians.

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Suicide in Japan has become a significant national social-issue.[1][2] Japan has one of the world's highest suicide rates, and the Japanese government reported the rate for 2006 as being the ninth highest in the world.[3] 71% of suicides in Japan were male,[2] and it is the leading cause of death in men aged 20-44.[4][5]

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What's gun ownership like in Japan? Oh ya, virtually nothing yet their suicide rate is 2.5x ours.


Cars kill 40,000 people per year. I don't see you bitching about banning cars that go faster that 65mph. There is NO reason people should have that capability

Once again, OPEN YOUR EYES AND MIND.

withoutawire said:

the simple fact is guns are here to keep us civilians and not servants.

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Spacerific said:

withoutawire said:

the simple fact is guns are here to keep us civilians and not servants.

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Do tell, how are you in the US, less servants than gun-free countries in Europe? Do you pay less taxes? Have less laws infringing on your rights? Please.

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Despite the relatively liberal gun laws, guns are not especially popular in the Czech Republic; nevertheless the sport shooting is the third most widespread sport after football and hockey.[9] In 2010, there were 311,876 licenses and over 700,000 registered firearms[9] (for the 10,7 million population).

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Quote:

Gun politics in the Czech Republic incorporates the political and regulatory aspects of firearms usage in the country. Policy in the Czech Republic is in many respects less restrictive than elsewhere in Europe (see Gun politics in the European Union). The most recent Gun Act was passed in 2001, replacing the previous law and tightening the legislation slightly. Firearms in the Czech Republic are available to anybody without a criminal record and aged above 18 (or 21 for certain license categories). Self-defense is an acceptable justification to obtain a firearms license. The Czech gun laws also permits a citizen to carry a concealed weapon without having to specify a reason.

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Quote:

In 2007 there were 836 criminal acts and 5428 misdemeanors committed with use of firearms.[17]

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Quote:

Quote:

withoutawire said:
the simple fact is guns are here to keep us civilians and not servants.



Do tell, how are you in the US, less servants than gun-free countries in Europe? Do you pay less taxes? Have less laws infringing on your rights? Please.

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Paying taxes makes me a servant




Tell me more about Russia, China, and North Korea where civilian gun ownership is banned. Ask the USSR or third reich how banning civilian gun ownership did them. That's being a servant. Being a functional member of our economy and paying taxes isn't infringing on my rights. Taking away my right to defend myself reasonably from government is how slavery exists. It's no different than what we did to south america. They are "free" but are dependent on our economy to function.

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It didnt say Switzerland wasn't evidence, it said their gun ownership is not what gun proponents say it is. What nobody mentions is that the people that have a gun at home DO NOT HAVE AMMO FOR IT. And when they they train, the ammo they buy must be used at the range.

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Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

and this is where we know it's complete bullshit

Kennesaw Ga, they passed a law stating that every home owner must own a gun
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/kennesaw/crime/

25 years without a murder and still one of the safest cities in the world
http://www.dailypaul.com/267692/25-years-murder-free-in-gun-town-usa



Marietta, it sits right next to Kennesaw, averaging 5 murders per year, high
incidents of rape and other violent crimes
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/marietta/crime/



guns make us safer, some cherry picked bullshit from UltraLiberal® Harvard doesnt change the facts

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In a city that already had a low crime rate, have you seen what city has the lowest crime rate? It doesn't have a law permitting everyone to have a gun. Yeah that's interesting but doesn't really say much. Could you imagine how much worse relationships might be because of that law? Guns are already used for intimidating, and intimating intimates. Poor women..

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Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

and this is where we know it's complete bullshit

Kennesaw Ga, they passed a law stating that every home owner must own a gun
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/kennesaw/crime/

25 years without a murder and still one of the safest cities in the world
http://www.dailypaul.com/267692/25-years-murder-free-in-gun-town-usa



Marietta, it sits right next to Kennesaw, averaging 5 murders per year, high
incidents of rape and other violent crimes
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/marietta/crime/



guns make us safer, some cherry picked bullshit from UltraLiberal® Harvard doesnt change the facts

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In a city that already had a low crime rate, have you seen what city has the lowest crime rate? It doesn't have a law permitting everyone to have a gun. Yeah that's interesting but doesn't really say much. Could you imagine how much worse relationships might be because of that law? Guns are already used for intimidating, and intimating intimates. Poor women..

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really, so show us those crime rates pre 1982

why is marietta's so much higher than the average of georgia and the nation?

how is it that in 25 years the population of Kennesaw grew 500% without the crime growing with it?

just because you cite a bunch of liberal bullshit, it doesnt make it accurate

how about coughing up the full 'study' complete with the data sources and
maybe listing those 26 countries they drew the data from

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Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

and this is where we know it's complete bullshit

Kennesaw Ga, they passed a law stating that every home owner must own a gun
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/kennesaw/crime/

25 years without a murder and still one of the safest cities in the world
http://www.dailypaul.com/267692/25-years-murder-free-in-gun-town-usa



Marietta, it sits right next to Kennesaw, averaging 5 murders per year, high
incidents of rape and other violent crimes
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/marietta/crime/



guns make us safer, some cherry picked bullshit from UltraLiberal® Harvard doesnt change the facts

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In a city that already had a low crime rate, have you seen what city has the lowest crime rate? It doesn't have a law permitting everyone to have a gun. Yeah that's interesting but doesn't really say much. Could you imagine how much worse relationships might be because of that law? Guns are already used for intimidating, and intimating intimates. Poor women..

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really, so show us those crime rates pre 1982

why is marietta's so much higher than the average of georgia and the nation?

how is it that in 25 years the population of Kennesaw grew 500% without the crime growing with it?

just because you cite a bunch of liberal bullshit, it doesnt make it accurate

how about coughing up the full 'study' complete with the data sources and
maybe listing those 26 countries they drew the data from

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moonrockmushy said:

I'm into putting arms manufacturers out of business and making it harder to access guns in the first place.

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Patlal said:

Do you know why Harvard has a such a great reputation? Because they don't manipulate their data to satisfy the guy that paid for it.

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If an institution like Harvard was caught doing that, it would be all over the news and it would put every research than came out of there in the "doubtful" section...

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So Dr Judy Wood is a cunt therefore everybody with a doctorate is stupid right?

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Also, Harvard has already proven that marijuana helps cure lung cancer. But of course, its from Harvard, so I'm sure the study was funded by potheads.

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Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar. It has been concretely established that smoking cigarettes promotes lung cancer (which causes more than 125,000 deaths in the US every year), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and increased incidence of respiratory tract infections. This implies, but does not establish, that smoking marijuana may lead to some of the same results as smoking cigarettes.

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As for the full text of the study, you'll probably have to pay to get it. These kind of studies aren't the first hit on Google.

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withoutawire said:

but don't you know? harvard doesn't have any agenda. That's because harvard is school and doesn't have a brain. Individual professors, on the other hand, are people who do.

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Patlal said:

Kennesaw is a small city out of tens of thousands in the middle of nowhere. One isn't a valid statistical sample. Shit is awesome in Kennesaw, good for them. Now lets get back to reality.

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Prisoner#1 said:

Patlal said:

Do you know why Harvard has a such a great reputation? Because they don't manipulate their data to satisfy the guy that paid for it.

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absolutely false. a 'study' that does nothing more than take from other
alleged studies is exactly what you're claiming it doesnt do. these
studies/research are done by people that want to increase their funding,
and keep what they already have. it doesnt change from one place to another

there's several dozen instances of fraud in harvard's work and their school
of public health seems to be the source of most of it

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/09/harvard-psychology-researcher-co.html
http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=29299
http://www.smokershistory.com/Harvard.html
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/24479/36146/1467544.html?d=dmtContent

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If an institution like Harvard was caught doing that, it would be all over the news and it would put every research than came out of there in the "doubtful" section...

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I believe they have been caught... many times

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So Dr Judy Wood is a cunt therefore everybody with a doctorate is stupid right?

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wasnt it you that made the appeal to authority and here now you're saying we
shouldnt believe... which is it, either the educated are to be believed or
they're no different than any other tool with an agenda

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Also, Harvard has already proven that marijuana helps cure lung cancer. But of course, its from Harvard, so I'm sure the study was funded by potheads.

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yeah they did didnt they.... guess what else they said

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

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Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar. It has been concretely established that smoking cigarettes promotes lung cancer (which causes more than 125,000 deaths in the US every year), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and increased incidence of respiratory tract infections. This implies, but does not establish, that smoking marijuana may lead to some of the same results as smoking cigarettes.

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As for the full text of the study, you'll probably have to pay to get it. These kind of studies aren't the first hit on Google.

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so until one of the people touting it as some fact decide to cough it up
then it's still bullshit just like many others we're seeing out of harvard

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Prisoner#1 said:

Patlal said:

Kennesaw is a small city out of tens of thousands in the middle of nowhere. One isn't a valid statistical sample. Shit is awesome in Kennesaw, good for them. Now lets get back to reality.

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absolutely false

why do per capita crimes suddenly not apply when it disagrees with your views
but when they do agree you're all for it. the city of atlanta has 10x the
population of kennesaw, kennesaw is a suburb of atlanta just as marietta is and
marietta only has a slightly higher population than kennesaw

yes, let's get back to reality

the crime rate in kennesaw dropped in 1982 and has remained the same through
the last 25 years even though they've seen a 500% growth rate. now that's the real world, sorry if you dont like it

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