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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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idealists suck!
    #1734996 - 07/21/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


okay, right off the top lets make a distinction; there are two types of idealists = realistic and unrealistic

realistic idealist are people who hold ideals, but also have methods/tactics to implement these ideals.

then there are unrealistic idealists, people who have ideals but have no way to manifest these ideals in reality.

the former sickens me. They tend to claim moral/cultural superiority over the apathetic and those they label as their enemies. But in actuality, they in no way differ from the apathetic, they only think they do, but its all a self-constructed fantasy.

If you cannot implement your "positive" ideal without negative effects, then you fall into the unrealistic catergory as well. This is basically what I call "the communist syndrome".

so what are your thoughts on idealists? mental masturbators?


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735025 - 07/21/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Idealism is good to anticipate the future. Look at Julio Verne, he idealized many things not possible to his present, he inspired people which turned some of his ideas possible.

What if modern democracy wasn't idealized ? Idealists made it happen although the first modern demrocratic idealists never saw the light of the day for their ideals.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: MAIA]
    #1735034 - 07/21/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

good point, but democracy would definitely fall into the realistic catergory.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735048 - 07/21/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it certainly doesn't seem realistic if you look at the history of democracy (see: the fall of greece and the rise of nazi germany)

unrealistic idealists = artists

"realistic" idealists = not idealists


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: Malachi]
    #1735069 - 07/21/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

soo...mao ze dong was an artist?


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735210 - 07/21/03 04:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

nope, he was power hungry.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


Edited by Malachi (07/21/03 04:27 PM)


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: Malachi]
    #1735225 - 07/21/03 04:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

he was hungarian?....now it all makes sense~!


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735262 - 07/21/03 04:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

whoops.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735388 - 07/21/03 05:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

realistic idealist are people who hold ideals, but also have methods/tactics to implement these ideals.

then there are unrealistic idealists, people who have ideals but have no way to manifest these ideals in reality.

the former sickens me. They tend to claim moral/cultural superiority over the apathetic and those they label as their enemies. But in actuality, they in no way differ from the apathetic, they only think they do, but its all a self-constructed fantasy.


don't you mean the latter?

well I happen to be an idealist. some ideals can't be implemented in this world probably in my lifetime but maybe overzelous idealists can inspire the realistic idealists to work for change in the world.


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Anonymous

Re: idealists suck! [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1735446 - 07/21/03 05:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

the idealists do the thinking, they are not activists, and don't claim to be.

as long as they get their ideas across in a constructive, well thought manner, then their mission has been accomplished.

whereas an activist's mission is accomplished when something is done.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735588 - 07/21/03 06:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

good point, but democracy would definitely fall into the realistic catergory.




Yes, but only now. How would you call someone living in a medieval feudalist society thinking about something like people rights, freedom and choosing their governments by universal vote ?
To tell you the truth i find myself an idealist. Socially i believe there are two ways of evolution and a final objective, they are towards total destruction or towards total enlightenment. As for the former goes, lack of freedom, lack of responsibility, repressive values and laws are symptoms of a dark future. As for the later goes i find the symptoms logically the opposite, if we can give more freedom with a burden of more responsibility but with high ideals and values shared by everyone, we would find an enlightened and bright future ahead of us.
Now, is it bad to imagine the future ? But how can you think about one without ideas ?
If we are to build something mentally, we have to idealize it first. That's how we build the future, with ideas ,with those who have ideas (idealists)and with those which later put them in practice (pioneers).

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: idealists suck! [Re: MAIA]
    #1735692 - 07/21/03 06:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's a balance between what you want (idealism) and what works (pragmatism).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
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Loc: Toronto Canada
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1735867 - 07/21/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

No offense but you have alot built up rage resulting in wrongful judgement.. Sure there are poeple out there who might not practice what they preach but when it comes down to it you should be trying to nurture these people with loving energy and accept them for who they are.. Inventing categories to place people in doesn't really help anyone.. Just look at the sorry state of politics right now.. The biggest danger there is to the self is the self.. Just think every negative thought which is concieved is poluted by our own personel biases which we all have.. It might be a good Idea to try and activate your root chakra under you genitals.. This is where all the energy comes from wich eventually migrate's upward and will be coloured by the ego into thought forms.. When this is activated it becomes possible to open the 3rd eye and when you see through this all things are connected as one..


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: Bhairabas]
    #1735890 - 07/21/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

who are you addressing? if its me....i have no rage at all. Im just sick of people who claim superiority over the apathetic just because they "believe" certain things.

blah blah blah 3rd eye blah blah blah


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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1735939 - 07/21/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

And this sickness you feel where does it stem from?? The people around you or you own ego???


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: Bhairabas]
    #1736064 - 07/21/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no, it stems from people claiming superiority over others, but in reality having the same social impact of those they criticize. Yes this conflicts with my ego's desire to see positive change on earth.

the horrid horrid EGO!


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1736149 - 07/21/03 09:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nah idealists who never achieve anything are cool... NOT


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1736166 - 07/21/03 09:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

No it's your ego trying to categorize everyone around you... Some things have more than 2 shades of colour..


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Posts: 24,849
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Re: idealists suck! [Re: Dogomush]
    #1736175 - 07/21/03 09:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dogomush said:
Nah idealists who never achieve anything are cool... NOT



Who are you to judge someone else's life? People live how they want to live, as long as they don't violently interfere with anyone's life or freedom, it's up to them. They might have been the happiest person on Earth.
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1736220 - 07/21/03 09:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Bhairabas: you should write a self-help book, because you have all the earmarks of a pseudo-guru


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