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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life?
    #3778089 - 02/14/05 12:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was thinking this morning about how we all have spirit and yet some are very spirited with enthusiasm for what they are in engaged in moment to moment and others are very devoid of it.

I was thinking about how certain people, or the mundane of life can suck the spirit in life right out of them. I was thinking about how people who seem this way, are the ones who seem withdrawn from being engaged with life. I was thinking about how they must be off where spirit is, somewhere out of body , out of this place and time in realms the are more inviting, engaging and interesting.

I was thinking about how others, are just withdrawn into where they let their spirit for life get sucked away too, into anothers ideas for them they dwell and not even know it.

Either way, if spirit gets sucked into a place that isn't engaging in this here and now tangible reality, why and how does that happen? 

What makes this life engaging for one to be spirited with enthusiasm in and mundane or repulsive for another? What mechanism sucks the spirit away from this, to places dark and full of despair or to places bright, fun and safe and free?

This is a side effect view and exploration into when people are not fully present in spirit in the NOW where are they and why are they somewhere else? Whats the point of being HERE in body if not in spirit also?

I was thinking about my daughters friends and how some are so engaged in the NOW full of life force and how one in particular is so quiet, withdrawn and no enthusiasm for anything other then when she gets into her imagination realms.

I was then thinking about her mom and how even I have great difficulty just engaging with her for 10 minutes at a time. Shes a very domineering power monger type. This woman can suck the life from you faster then you can say "black hole on the horizon".

I realized lately that before I go to deal with her to make play dates, drop offs and pickups, I either have to open myself up to so much life force energy that I simply overwhelm her with my joy and not let her get a word in edgewise that she doesn't know what hit her or I have to disengage myself first, go off somewhere in lock down and then, just be like robot with her.

This woman is some one who is completely confused about why she has no friends and can't seem to make and keep friends. It's not about her, people like her are everywhere.

This is more about raising awareness of the difference between people who are fully engaged in spirit with life in the now and people who are not and why and how it is they are not? That woman is just an example of external forces at play that may be a part of this.

The other side is, does life just get to mundane for some and is the mundane a real thing or just any activity where spirit is devoid and what makes some activities more mundane then others? Don't we have control over pulling spirit in or pulling it out? Why not always pull it in no matter where we are or what we are doing, but we don't always do that.

I also wanted to raise awareness about how we do pull it in or out or allow it happen and may not even be aware of it and to notice it in ourselves and others.

I'm looking for why and how it happens explanations here.

Tell someone to "be in the now" where life is full as they set out for a days work of digging ditches. How do they engage in their work with spirit fully present and keep it up day after day after day, same old dirt and shovel?

If any thoughts , experiences or insights come to mind, please post them. I want to understand this whole dynamic better from perspectives other then my own. :heart:


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3778144 - 02/14/05 12:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well, it's a difficult topic really.

See, humans have generalized their conditions of experience into "real life" and "imaginary" almost as a collectively unconscious safety feature, to keep human interaction ongoing and desirable. Or, maybe it is the extroverted individuals who promote this concept more, as to them it is their truth, and since they speak out more than introverted types, it is heard more often. Actually, that's probably closer...

So, to say that some people are "here" in the physical while others reside in the mental or spiritual, we first need to know what "here" really is. On a purely animal level, "here" appears to be a state with full attention on sensory input and processing, a sort of 'instinctual' state.

Ever notice how our primary level of awareness goes into our visual processing? Why are 'visible' lightwaves more 'real' (on a relative level) or atleast more 'worth engaging attention in', than soundwaves or brainwaves (thoughtforms).

Really, I think that relative to the individual, the terms of external and internal are illusory. It's all the same awareness, just abstracted into classifiably different 'categories'. So, some people prefer watching and enagaging in the cause/effect 'reality' of the 'external physical' while others prefer the less rigid 'internal mental' states.

I'm sure it's obvious from this post that I'm more of an introvert myself, but that doesn't mean I do not live 'in the moment' or that I do not conituously put awareness on my sensory input. Throw a ball at me, I'll catch it, whether or not I'm watching a cow in a pasture or flying through dimensions of thoughtforms :smile:

The truth is that there is no 'truth', and so it's personal opinion. Reside wherever you prefer, sustain your life (if you want :smile:), and try not to limit the freedom of choice for others.

just my thoughts :cool:


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: deff]
    #3778198 - 02/14/05 12:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
Well, it's a difficult topic really.

See, humans have generalized their conditions of experience into "real life" and "imaginary" almost as a collectively unconscious safety feature, to keep human interaction ongoing and desirable.




What you said about unconscious safety feature is what i was wanting to explore and get other perspectives on because it is a difficult topic.

You were discussing healthy aspects of it that weren't really the aspects I was getting at. I realize introverts are just as engaged but in a passive way.

I'm talking about people who just have moved out of being engaged as a protective devise. Protection from what? What are the threats? Are they real or imagined? What are coping devises other then withdrawal and removal of the spirit self? hat makes some weak and withdrawal easily and some very strong in spirit presence most of the time. (no one is all of the time)

I want to explore the whys and hows of all that and if it seems healthy or has any purpose or is it just a waste of a human life when one is in perpetual retreat somewhere else because they are protecting themselves from something "here"?

Thanks for helping me hone in the focus here. The nature of the introvert and extrovert left aside.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3778237 - 02/14/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The other thing I wanted to hear other perspectives on is the issue of the mundane which is tied into this.

Why is it for some, routine, doing the same thing at the same times everyday day after day is where some people find their strength? others become very weakened in that and call it the mundane. Why is that? What is the difference between those two types of people?

Pull the one out of their routine and they freak out and with drawl. Stick the other in "mundane routine" and they freak out and with draw.

What's going on with that?


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3778260 - 02/14/05 12:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, guess I misinterpreted the question a little.

I don't really know what to say to your actual question besides;

Some people are more aware than others.

Awareness can be cultivated through meditation and self reflection, not to mention physical things like sports and watching things move really fast :smile:

The more aware one is, the more 'engaged' they are in whatever perception they are engaging (whether introvert or extrovert).

Now why are some people naturally more aware? Probably has a lot to do with early childhood development and conditioning, as well as every single past experience in their life. Certain things may make someone withdraw out of fear (for example, being mugged might cause a fear of strangers) or out of boredom.

Boredom itself though is interesting, because what is it? You can almost touch it, but it isn't real. Is it the lack of motivation and excitment, or something different. Maybe when one accumulates enough experience with one particular section of the spectrum, they become disengaged as there is little left to 'figure out' or distract them.

Good question though :craven:


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: deff]
    #3778289 - 02/14/05 12:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

To your second question about mudanity:

I think it has a lot to do with pattern recognition and memory. The greater one's ability to draw instances from the past (stored in memory) and apply it to the present, the greater they understand things. It works with overlapping perceptual moments, where pattern recognition seeks to build a bridge through time, and gives rise to everything we know as humans - thoughts, actions, ect..

Maybe when one is more adept at pattern recognition, the same task repeated over and over becomes so well known and recognized, that it is seen as mundane. Notice how a mouse will run on a wheel over and over while humans would find a little time on a treadmill boring? (despite health reasons for doing it, it is intellectually boring)

But why do people attach repetition and understanding to boredom and mundanity? I think this itself is a mental attachment that leads to suffering in the end. One can know and understand every detail of a task and perform it endlessly for hours, and yet if they have the strength of mind - they can endure it (whether through a meditative mindstate or through entertaining thoughts while they do it).

The best advice I can give to 'cure' boredom is meditation. One realizes not to fear nothingness and silence, and realizes how addicted to the conditioned values of productivity they were.

Oh, and this ties to another thought I was having - that all existence is the result of god distracting itself from perpetual stillness out of boredom. Maybe duality is perceptually abstracted from the void as a way of god entertaining itself through infinity.

who knows though :smile:


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: deff]
    #3778318 - 02/14/05 12:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Again, you helped me to bring the focus in. What you said about early childhood conditioning is where I want to get others perspectives also.

I think the conditioning of some that pushes spirit out for survival coping in child hood conditions only serves to take away from fully engaging in adult life when the conditions are removed. How does an adult even become aware of this let alone change their conditioning.

Boredom is interesting (ties into the mundane stuff) because we act as if the environment or external stimulus is not there, but it is really we who are not there in spirit?

Whats going on with that?

I want to hear as many perspectives as I can on all of this if they are out there.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3778553 - 02/14/05 02:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Survival coping in childhood might be continued survival coping in adulthood even if one thinks one has "gotten things under control."

We live in a wacky world getting crazier and changing more all of the time, so why wouldn't people get stressed out and feel the need to "fight or flight".

Boredom, mundanity, repetition, rut, is more about escaping that big bad world and all it's meanies and into a comfort zone. Or it could be just plain 'ol laziness and ain't life a shit sandwicth.

In any event, if that comfort zone is small and constricted, the person lives for 80 years in that same small town in that little pink single wide trailer house along the noisy main drag.

As for widening one's comfort zone, it is key to one's growth. Changing current reality into a better future reality requires taking risks, forcing oneself to become more extroverted if introverted, etc.
Travel is a great thing to expand one's comfort zone if that travel is of the low end or backpacking variety. If you are dragging three suitcases, that doesn't count.

Awareness increasing and fast paced sports such as skiing enable us to expand our comfort zone in a pleasant and stimulating way.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3778993 - 02/14/05 05:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That was funny Lunar! Just so blatantly looking at it all with the humor in the reality of it.

You had some insightful suggestions for people looking to overcome fear of the meanies or to pull themselves out of comfort zone ruts. I started this query out wondering what gets people into certain forms of spirit withdrawl from life and how it works.

The problem I kept coming up with is the duality nature of it all that you and def pointed out here;


Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

Boredom, mundanity, repetition, rut, is more about escaping that big bad world and all it's meanies and into a comfort zone.  Or it could be just plain 'ol laziness and ain't life a shit sandwich.






Quote:

[def said:

Maybe duality is perceptually abstracted from the void as a way of god entertaining itself through infinity.






Why is ones cereal every morning at 7:00 comfort and security keeping them sane and strong where that would be a mundane nightmare for another weakening their spirit to engage fully in another day?

I want to understand the difference.

def,
what you said about memory repetition is something I can play with. What does that suggest about one who can live in mundane repetition for years with vigor, not experiencing it as even being mundane and the other who is ready to slit their wrists after a week of the same old?

I want to understand the mechanisms of how people get sucked into being disengaged from living in spirit, be it in this reality or another and I wonder where they are when not in spirit here or elsewhere?

I also want to understand how to punch through the mundane and pull more spirit in when things get mundane. How do some people live in it and thrive and others live in it and are weak, barely a pulse getting them through.

Maybe its just like Lunar said.......this place IS crazy and moving to understand it will only make you more crazy as it is. :crazy2:

Thanks for bouncing it around me with guys! :cool:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (02/14/05 05:06 PM)


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3779144 - 02/14/05 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"What does that suggest about one who can live in mundane repetition for years with vigor, not experiencing it as even being mundane and the other who is ready to slit their wrists after a week of the same old? "

Not to generalize, but I was say as intellectual abilities increase, one is more easily disengaged. Look at the mouse running on the wheel. Intelllect however does not mean superiority, as humans condition themselves to want such a variety of experience that they become bored or depressed even with levels of varience much surpassing other primates and animals.

And so, with intellect, one should also cultivate no-mind (meditation), as a way of aligning the 'average' in the center (the middle way). This builds the virtue of patience and appreciations of lack of form, and so one can repeat the same task while remaining perfectly content to just exist :smile:

To get through the mundane, realize that it is only your perception that is mundane. The source of experience is infinite and far from mundane.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: deff]
    #3779280 - 02/14/05 05:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ha ha, your last sentence was interesting. If one sees something as being mundane its because it has become dull and flat and known. Now we are getting somewhere as you said it's just the perception filter itself that has become dull flat and known.

So you wrapped it but by saying that a different point source puts on a new filter bringing out new qualities of depth and color within what use to seem or appear to be mundane.

I can see that. So lets now apply this to the rat on the wheel contently running nowhere day after day versus the one saying this is boring get me out of this tired ride to no where already.

You said the later is probably more in the intellect which requires more stimulation and wants something new and fresh, yet, you are also saying that the intellect itself is what is in need of renewal and refreshment from taking on a new perspective.

Could it be that the content rat is in a continual state of renewal keeping it fresh OR just to simple minded to not notice? Is the intellectual withdrawing from the mundane not keeping up renewal or to complex minded to be content?

heres' the dichotomy I can't get beyond in this case. There are upsides and downsides to each. Until I can get beyond the duality of this . The rats winning to me. The upside of the other is that actual external changes are made but again, where do they get you any differently in the end?

It all comes down to just playing with filters right where you are with whatever you have doesn't it? Ahh there, well I passed the duality on that one now. Though now I want to experiment with rats and find out if the are naturally in renewal of fliter changes or if they are just to simple minded to require them or IF a simple mind is one that naturally renews them.

I still want to know the mechanisms of the other questions I had.

My head is going to explode with answers connecting it all tonight  I just know it.

Thanks for the bounce off and stir of the mind pot def! :cool:


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3780422 - 02/14/05 10:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

*stirs mind pot some more*

Man has something animals don't, consciousness, or more precisely the capacity for symbolic thought. This allows us to be more aware, and this awareness must be applied somewhere. As humans, we can choose to reapply it to the now, to add to our natural awareness that animals also share. This is the epitomy of the psychedelic experience, our awareness focusing in on the now.

Our awareness has access to that which is more conventional, further down in the heirarchy. We make tools by which we can store knowledge and increase our capacity for symbolic thought which, when sufficiently developped, raises our awareness even more and gives us access to higher, more fundamental plains. Then we can make greater tools and, more enlightened, we're consciously motivated to keep growing, so our awareness expands at an increasing rate.

The rat is in the now, like we all can be. But where it is merely contented, we with our greater awareness can attain eccstacy, nirvana, etc. We can go about routine activities not with a neutral air like animals but with great joy. So people can do seemingly mundane things because their awareness is focused solely on the act, in the now, and tapps in to the universal reserve of infinite energy(/joy). It isn't "boring" if you have nothing to compare it to, no future/past comparisons.

The more we learn to take control of our own awareness, of what perceptual filters we view the world through, the more our filter becomes open and joyful (the two are inextricably linked).

Is it better to remain rooted in the now of the physical plain, or off in your mind's eye? Well that's the whole point--it's not about where you are, it's about how you're there. Are you deep in thought to escape, or to attain answers to important questions? Is your presence there hurting you (in a masochistic kind of way), or aiding you? Awareness allows you to see deeply, while motivation/intend controls how you interpret this input (properly understanding the input helps the aim of your intent).

It's easy to run off to dream land for poor reasons because that slows or even reverses your progress. People cling to the conventional, to what they have, and they fear change that risks taking away their conventionality. Normally people should always be becoming more fundamental in nature, more enlightened, but often they purposely slow down the process to slow the change, to keep clinging a bit longer to what they have.

When people distract themselves they must invest themselves in the distraction and legitimately be interested in something trivial, to occupy their awareness from changing. So the more they distract themselves the more conventionality they have to protect, the greater their motivation to distract themselves, the more they distract themselves, and so on. Eventually they're clinging to a world with hardly anything of importance. They claim it's because of the change ahead but it's not--rather, it's the very conventionality they seek to protect that's causing the problem. Conventionaliy is blockage in the flow of life.

Furthermore, when you invest yourself in something trivial, something simple, then you're able to apply yourself to it expertly and be "on top of it"--it's easy to do/know. It boosts your ego, but it's based on a lie. It reinforces the illusion of your ego, the foundation of your world, because it reaffirms that these (unimportant) things you fill your life with are important. In this way, sadly, many people progressively lower their awareness.

Those who are devoid of engagement are ignorant, and we should treat them with compassion. Were they to know better then they'd see that engaging yourself makes you happier, and they'd engange themselves more, plain and simple. But they don't yet realize they're able to change their filters, that the filters are contingent not on external circumstances but on their own internal choice.

Are egocentric, unengaged people hiding from something real? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that they choose to give conventionality meaning and existence in their world, but no in the greater scheme of things. If a person believes in conventionality to the point where the gap between illusion and reality is too great, and they can no longer fool their conscious minds into thinking that conventionality has sustenance, their conscious mind will recoil and, in its place, their subconscious will manifest. It must manifest in a medium they understand, an extremely conventional one, like perhaps Satan. Does Satan really exist? To them he does, symbolic of their own inner lies which plead to be exposed and hope for the death of their conventional worlds, but in the greater reality he doesn't (he exists relatively).


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3781027 - 02/14/05 11:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know, Jiggy.  :nonono:

I think it goes back to childhood.  I think some of us become trapped in the world that was created for us by our parents.  What we were told to believe, how we were treated, etc. 

Some of us escape.  We end up seeing the world, for some reason, differently than the way we saw the world in which we were raised. 

To cause me to see the world differently than I saw it as it appeared to be when I was a child, it took a huge upheaval in my life that changed everything.  Even though what happened was bad, and really shook me up, I was also awakened to the FACT that the world is not the way we see it.

I don't think everyone needs to experience what I experienced in order to shift their way of thinking, but for some of us, our thinking is somehow caused to be shifted.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3781127 - 02/15/05 12:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

ooooooooh yum, thanks for stirring the mental pot some more. You put a lot of thought into that reply and I enjoyed reading through it.

It seems this group has the easiest time taking on the topic of the mundane. It was good.

It was also interesting how you worded the part about the conscious recoiling into the subconscious where the source of the fear they recoiled from manifests itself even more strongly. That was a great visual and very insightful. Helped to demonstrate why things like demons and meanies seem even more real and powerful to some people. That was a take I've never heard put that way before.

Thanks for your contribution to ways of looking at these dynamics.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3781141 - 02/15/05 12:02 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What are you calling "engaged with life"? I feel that when I am fully withdrawn into myself...maybe figuring out a programming problem, or pondering some bullshit I read on this board, that I am as fully engaged as when I am in the woods hunting, or on a camping trip with my family...or at a rock concert. I am a hard core introvert, but I feel fully engaged and entranced with my life. I feel much less engaged when I am forced to interact with others in my daily normal life. My family and the stuff I read on this board are notable exceptions.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3781211 - 02/15/05 12:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Some people, just need to take off their Waiting Glasses...



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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3781257 - 02/15/05 12:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That was a good add on perpsective to the mundane part of this Skorp. Thanks! Tied in well with what someelse said about comparing the now moment to other moments, past or to come.

Hue, what you described is being fully engaged. This had nothing to do with introverted behavior. I was talking about people who are not enganged period, devoid of any spirit or enthusiasm for anything anywhere.


I suppose I was referring to what we call depression but to an extreme. It would be one who has just enough life force energy in them to keep breathing and going through the motions like a robot.

I was looking for more perspective and visuals of the energy dynamics of what puts one there in the first place. There are people in my life who fit these descriptive I want to understand better.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3782993 - 02/15/05 12:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You are apparently talking about people on life support. They are devoid of pleasure, other than watching Judge Judy or Dr. Phil. They live vicariously in other people's lives, because their own life is boring and mundane from their perspective.

How did they get that way? Look at their parents, their upbringing, their personal history. Some people were abused, emotionally or otherwise. Some were just plain ignored or neglected which can even be worse. Add stupidity, laziness, and dependency on the welfare check to the mix. It's easy to see why self esteem is low.


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Re: The Mundane and Becoming Enganged with Life? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3783193 - 02/15/05 01:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This is getting superficial. Whats on the surface is easy to see and label. I was curious about looking at it more deeply. What makes people so devoid of spirit that they move to suck the life out of others or as you said, sucking off the well fare system, people who suck the life force off others in general? people who want to suck form your life energy and resources because they have no life energy or resources of their own. What does this? How does it work and why does it happen?

Like looking at neglect in childhood. I can see that to be a probable cause. So is it that children need adults to pull their spirit in to engage them with life and bring spirit fully in and present? If not, what is happening with that person? I wish I could see what is happening behind the scenes.

I realize my original post didn't have much focus because I was tossing a lot of interconnected aspects around in my head.

This really needs to be broken up into many topics for better focus.

Maybe I should've started one that said,

Why Do Some People Literally Suck...........from the life of others?


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Re: Why Do People Literally Suck... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3787836 - 02/16/05 04:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

from the life form of others?

How's this for a superficial answer?

Because they have been taught to suck by having their own life form at an early age sucked up by parents, teachers, etc. They in turn graduate in adulthood to life form suckers in search of victims.

Does the mosquito or vampire bat question their sucking the life form out of others? Of course not. Does the mosquito or vampire bat need a victim, willing or otherwise, from which to suck life blood. Of course. Likewise, the human life form sucker doesn't even see their actions as deleterious. Likewise, the human life form sucker needs a victim, and in a very real sense takes "blood" in the form of life force that can not be replaced.

What I am saying is that the reason life form suckers exist is that is what they do by nature, and what satisfies them. The cycle continues from generation to generation until one of these little suckers breaks the pattern of suckdom.

Now, as to what makes someone's mind capable of this, just do a Google search on brainwashing, mind control, Patty Hearst syndrome, etc. If the victim is in the control of the victimizer, if the victim is trying to satisfy or at least survive the victimizer, lots of life form sucking can occur.

Why do people allow themselves to be controlled? Usually they don't associate their situation in that way. They are told it is their fault, they feel guilty, they are told they are stupid, they feel and become stupid even if they are of high IQ, etc.

Maybe some people just try to please others or are not initially strong enough and fall prey to the suckers. Other people by nature will fight being victimized, are able to handle the attacks better, escape the suckers by leaving the nest or even town as soon as they can. Still, these people may continue to suffer by not allowing other suckers to get too close. Worse, they may actually subconsciously choose the worst kind of sucker that matches their sucker parent, and not even "realize" it until the sixth physical beating.

Think about people you know. Invariably, you will know someone who is good looking, nice, and has a good job, who seems to date and have a relationship with some ugly, unemployed abusive sucker. They then break up with that person after the sixth physical beating or hundredth emotional controlling incident. This break up will occur ONLY at prompting by friends and family. The next person they date and have a relationship with just so happens to be very much like every other abusive sucker. As one poster said, they have become comfortable with being uncomfortable.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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