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OfflineBhairabas
Stranger

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1736236 - 07/21/03 07:56 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I get all my Idea's from fortune cookie's

Edited by Bhairabas (07/21/03 07:58 PM)

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 15 years, 22 days
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1736594 - 07/21/03 10:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

atomikfunksoldier said:
Bhairabas: you should write a self-help book, because you have all the earmarks of a pseudo-guru




what makes him a quasi guru?

enlightenment = being able to always be nice to people ?


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,397
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
Re: idealists suck! [Re: Malachi]
    #1737449 - 07/22/03 05:04 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

enlightenment = being able to always be nice to people ?




Not just that, it is also being able to see all things beyond their superficiality.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1739803 - 07/22/03 09:32 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm. This is a weird one.

I consider myself an idealist - what you would probably clump into the "unrealistic" category. I have a very well defined and developed series of filters and processes that drive my behaviours, and I try my damndest every day of my life to live by them.

I will drive out of my way to buy gas from a store that doesn't sell tobacco. I will pay more for food grown organically or even more for food from a co-op. I would sooner live on the street than work for certain companies whom I deem sub-human, i.e. any company owned by Disney, Philip Morris, or Citibank. I have quit jobs and put myself in financial peril because I had disdain for the way a company did it's business and treated it's people and customers.

I'm not patting myself on the back for any of this - I'm simply pointing out what makes me an "idealist", by your definition. Do I believe that my behaviour is really going to change the world? No. Do I believe that most people have any clue what I'm doing? Nope. Would it matter if they did? Nah.

Why do I do it, then? Because I believe that if we truly want to make the world better, then we have to start with ourselves. How can we expect others to make sacrifices for the 'greater good', if we are unwilling to make those sacrifices ourselves? How can we ever hope to paint a picture of perfection if we do not daily, and with every breath we take, strive for that perfection ourselves.

Am I perfect because I have lofty ideals and try to live my life by them? Hell no. I'm as much of an ass and an idiot as pretty much every other schmuck you meet on the street. Do I consider myself better than those who don't live their lives by some sort of idealistic system. Yah - actually, I do. I'm doing something, goddammit, and everything that I do in my life, I attempt to do with full consciousness of my actions and their repurcussions for myself, those around me, and the world in general.

And I think if more of us idiots and morons spent a little more time doing just that, then we'd all be a hell of a lot better off. So if you think that I'm a "communist" for this, then god bless you, comrade.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1739907 - 07/22/03 10:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I have practiced both types of idealism, and both kinds pay off.

activist idealism pays off when you get shit done

unrealistic idealism pays off when you inspire others to get shit done.

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1740000 - 07/22/03 10:44 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

gern- "that I'm a "communist" for this, then god bless you, comrade."

you misinterpreted my statement, i dont think unrealistic idealists are communists, I think communists are unrealistic idealists, because theyre ideals cannot be realistically implemented without negative results that condradict theyre ideals.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1740361 - 07/23/03 02:27 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Ah - then I did, in fact, misunderstand you :smile:  My apologies.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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InvisibleLeonopoly
Stranger

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 24
Re: idealists suck! [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1920723 - 09/16/03 05:07 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

I guess I suck then.

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: Leonopoly]
    #1920755 - 09/16/03 06:00 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

I'd call myself a bit of both kinds of idealism. The problem with trying to change anything in the world is that too many people strive only to attain their personal carnal delights, and don't think about the fact that for instance Philip-Morris supports the KKK, that Coca-Cola destroyed the local softdrinks economy in Central America, and so on and so forth. Whenever I can, I try not to buy anything from any company that supports amoral practice.
By the way, do you have any idea how hard it is to, for instance, boycott U.S. products if you don't agree with their world domination politics? It's not like every package of every product says who owns the company and what they do with their money.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1920793 - 09/16/03 06:59 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

why ask this question? sure you may not agree with what ideas that others have but that's the great thing actually! why do other's people ideas make you sick? no matter how outlandish it may be, what's wrong with letting someone believe in what they believe? as long as they aren't hindering your freedom, then there's no harm, no foul. why judge someone else for their imperfections when you yourself aren't perfect? judge in this sense means to say what is right and what is wrong. after all, your version of right and wrong may differ from mine.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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OfflineClover
phenomenal woman
Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 99
Loc: Beyond the Veil
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: idealists suck! [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1932818 - 09/19/03 02:33 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

As humans, we catagorize to better understand that which we do not yet have a grasp upon. Not that it is always right or just to do so, it is something we do.
Now, questioning this becomes a horse of a different color. Is this acculturation or is it innate? That really is the question more than WHY we do it, is how we do it and what are the origins? If we better understand the reasons behind our beleifs we are more capable of understanding them on our own terms and not requiring the use of catagories (or even labels).


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."


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