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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Can contradictory things be true?
    #1687880 - 07/05/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I believe they can be true, and in fact, are true, though I have no way of proving it(I can only see it through my sqigied third eye :mushroom2:).  My mushroom experiences have led me to believe that all things in the universe are one, and that one universe, that one truth that binds us all, contains all possibilities, all past, present, and future events.  This truth surpasses the laws of the universe and morality and thought, and cannot be accurately put into words.  The best word I can think of to describe it is "Om".  Am I making sense to anyone?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687894 - 07/05/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I read a one liner somewhere - probably someone's sig - about how the opposite of a profound truth can be another profound truth. of course, logically, contradictions are mutally exclusive of each other.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: Malachi]
    #1687899 - 07/05/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think you should provide an example of what exactly we're talkin' about here... Things can be contradictory on many levels, and in order to fully answer your question I think it need be stated what scale of contradictory we're dealing with ...


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: nubious]
    #1687925 - 07/05/03 01:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, for example, say I'm 6 feet tall and I'm also 100 feet tall. Logically, it doesn't make sense, but they are both true in that they are all within the realm of possibilities that make up the universe.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1687945 - 07/05/03 02:01 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

whispering winds at the top of the trees... you think its not possible... but sometimes you wonder :wink: .... the wind and the earth talking to you like the master control talks to its cells.

but the wind cant talk, it does not have a voice box. the earth cant talk, it is dirt and trees...humans............


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What?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1688056 - 07/05/03 03:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I've also had this thought, but I find it hard to come to grips with, because when I come down after a mushroom trip, I always return to the same body as the one I had before, and always to the universe where the terrain looks like Earth, not Mars, etc.

If all possibilities are equally real, then why can't I pick and choose any of them at anytime?

How about looking at the logic of creation like this:

The most simple truth is just pure unqualified existance, the famous "Void".

Everything else exists as possibilities, and the union of all these possibilities is the most complex truth. Some of these possibilities may contradict each other, but such possibilities can't be simultaneously brought into existance, so a choice must be made for every such case.

But a human being exists only on certain conditions that depends on choices that have already been made, for example that a certain sperm cell once combined with a certain egg, etc, so we're not free to make arbitrary choices and dream any fantasy into existance into the real world, since that would probably contradict earlier choices. We can only make new choices among the possibilities that have not yet been determined.


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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1688113 - 07/05/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I read some stuff by a smart guy once and he was talking about how at the highest level of understanding everything is a paradox, but if you let your logical, calculating, rational monkey-mind take over you'll see it all as contradictory and be a slave to stuff that doesn't make sense. So you have to accept paradox. I don't think this is quite what you're talking about but I thought I'd throw it in anyway.


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Offlinepsilyhunter
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1688205 - 07/05/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Can contradictory things be true?




Mu.


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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chart your own course... but only from here to there.


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: psilyhunter]
    #1688940 - 07/05/03 11:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Rather than being mutually exclusive, opposites are mutually dependent.


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Offlinenubious
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Registered: 10/20/02
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: Ped]
    #1688966 - 07/05/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Well, for example, say I'm 6 feet tall and I'm also 100 feet tall. Logically, it doesn't make sense, but they are both true in that they are all within the realm of possibilities that make up the universe.




I can't accept that as an answer... You're speaking on two different levels here... You may be 6 feet tall physically, and you may have pride as if you're 100 feet tall, but you can't actually be both. I think I see what you're getting at, but I'm still a little confused.

*bad example*

sorry if I just can't comprehend it.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineTavarua
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Registered: 07/02/03
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: nubious]
    #1689071 - 07/06/03 12:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously you've never been to the MYSTERY S POT!

:>


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Gotta love life cuz life be lovin me


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: nubious]
    #1689083 - 07/06/03 12:39 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The Universe is order.
The Universe is chaos.


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OfflineStatic
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Registered: 06/15/03
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1689094 - 07/06/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If yesterdays tomorrow is today, and tomorrow never comes, is today really here?


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Astronauts get all the tang they want.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1689296 - 07/06/03 02:44 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quantum mechanics say basicaly that.
I am reading The Dancing Wu Li Masters right now and although it is old (1975?) it is very interesting. I think you would enjoy it.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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Anonymous

Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1690528 - 07/06/03 05:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

My mushroom experiences have led me to believe that all things in the universe are one, and that one universe, that one truth that binds us all, contains all possibilities, all past, present, and future events.




Interestingly enough, quantum physics leads us to that as well.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: ]
    #1690722 - 07/06/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, but the world we know doesn't contain all the quantum possibilities, just the ones that are realized right now, plus some that are still in superpositioned states that will fall into one state or the other once they have been through enough interactions with the surrounding universe...


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1691736 - 07/07/03 02:02 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Assuming you mean they must be both true at the same time, there could be two opposing truths existing in different places, separated by space.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleTheDude
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Registered: 04/15/03
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: pattern]
    #1693621 - 07/07/03 05:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I just saw south park the movie (again) on tv last night. There is one line in it that I think could help, "Without Evil there wouldn't be Good, so it must be Good to be Evil sometimes".

A complete paradox but it makes sense. Well that's the best I can offer anyway....


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: TheDude]
    #1693670 - 07/07/03 05:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

A photon is a wave.?
A photon is a particle.?

black holes are a "PLACE(?)" in which time and space do not exist.

paradox schmaradox at the heart of a paradox is a change of phase....or in other words new rules begin effect eliminating the contradiction.So Yes "Seemilngly" contradictory events can simultaneously be true,but and underlying factor will always be discovered to conjoin the opposites.
WR:rasta:


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To old for this place


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Can contradictory things be true? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1693725 - 07/07/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If you look at life in terms of "ultimate reality"(The Essence) and "physical reality"(earth) then yes, things can be contradictory.

For instance, from the view point of "the all" or "the essence" or "God", killing is not wrong because nothing is "right" or "wrong", it just is.

Here on earth we've decided that killing is in fact "wrong", and for good reason.







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