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Is psychosis a spiritual illness
    #16796418 -

How do you guys view psychosis. Simple biology, or something more along the lines of possession, or something more unorthodox? Do you think people have a choice or at least some power over the workings of their mind? Or do you think if you are going to go psychotic, it was programmed into your genes at birth?


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Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16796497 -

It can be. My episodes of psychosis were very, very spiritual and I actually gained a lot from them in terms of understanding the mind, understanding my ideas, other people's ideas, the extent to which our programming influences our conciousness, the fragility of the egoic mind and how it's a house of cards, insight into undesireable states such as anxiety and paranoia, frames of reference in terms of conciousness, the importance of gods/deities for some people, the fact that the physical body has a limit, the mind-body relationship...the list goes on. I actually came out of my psychoses with a stronger mind than before it, and a greater understanding of heaps of stuff.

That being said though, I saw people who's psychoses were just complete ego-centric nonsense (simply grandiose bs), some who had a really bad time and were literally almost scared of shadows and their mind's projections, others who gained little to nothing and were ashamed of their "illness", some who tried ignoring it and lied to themselves that nothing was different/wrong, some who got so maniacal/depressed they took it out on themselves via slamming themselves into walls repetitively or cut themselves severely, etc.

I attribute the difference to 1. my intelligence and 2. my spirituality and 3. my experience in altered states of awareness (drugs/meditation). My experiences allowed me to easily go with the flow of the altered state (psychosis), my spirituality enabled me to understand the really "high" parts of psychosis (it was so much fun - conciousness is "untethered" and just by thinking of spiritual things/reading them it was possible to go on a "journey" to feel the states described) and my intelligence brought both aspects together and enabled me to not freak out and to make sense of the whole thing.

For me at least, my psychosis were circumstantial. Heavy drug use, insomnia, stress, and certain social factors in my life triggered the episodes, and when that happened I made them as deep as possible, for the fun of it. So in that sense I did have control of it, I could have tried resisting it instead of deepening the state. I have no idea if psychosis is determined by genetics.

In other words I enjoyed the psychosis and integrated it well. My case manager tells me its very rare to see someone like me.

Hope this helps :smile:


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Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:

Edited by lolwut (09/06/12 02:37 AM)

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16796596 -

I think psychosis and possession do seem similar and its an interesting comparison... (I wonder if there is anything about it)

I mean we did grow (and are still growing) out of a Christian value system so you do kinda wonder where all the possessed people went... Maybe psychosis is what we call it nowadays...

They do seem to share similar attributes, maybe the most important being that it happens to intelligent human beings who you would have thought would have no problem getting by in this world... Feelings of guilt, or that there is something morally wrong with your self or soul is maybe another

So assuming they are similar, I would say that biological factors without doubt predispose you, but that it is not at heart a biological sickness, or a spiritual one, but a cultural one.


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dripping with fantasy

Edited by quinn (09/06/12 03:38 AM)

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour] * 2
    #16796649 -

Psychotics and spiritual persons both believe in things not there.

Very similar.


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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16796977 -

The Book gives an ambiguous response; 1/ we can 'clean' our minds but then become host 'lower' spirits; 2/ We can't be rid of possession until an 'authority' dispels it.

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #16797265 -

possession is just one of the misdiagnoses of one of the effects of resonant mental states.

That a disorder exists causing problematic mental state shifting is commonly accepted and it is assumed that it is of chemical nature and observed to respond to chemical treatment.

not all (problematic) shifts of mental state involve voices or the sense of self being taken over, but it is easy to see how the possession idea has taken root in our cultures from even a few reports; also the experience (of losing control to some other agency) is far less rare than supposed, and it is possible that everyone has this apprehension - i.e. it is a feature of personality in the context of mental state shifting (dreams, tripping, etc).

psychosis, is a general term for chronic problematic mental state shifting patterns and it may or may not involve the experience of possession.

the chemistry to precipitate this can be due to brain damage; but also without a chemical signature, structural damage in the brain can also prevent reliable memory formation and supplant memory recollection with bizarre artifacts (to a higher degree than we are accustomed to - i.e. our reconstructive memories fail badly in accuracy one time in 10(let us say) but this could shift to 1 time in 5 with disastrous outcome).

Autism in infants indicates that structural abnormality can produce behavior and responses that may seem psychotic, and if it is mild enough, the socialization of this type of person can be very encumbered, such that they are diagnosed with schizophrenia or other popular labels at a very early age. The chemical treatment channels the case into the same slot.

Families that suffer members with these ailments have every right to turn to  religious support since there is not much coming from any other social structure, and since our understanding is loose to put it mildly.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16797448 -

I'm not sure what a spiritual illness is?

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: birdland]
    #16797741 -

A Christian Scientist might say that all illnesses have a foundation in the spiritual.

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: birdland]
    #16798488 -

birdland said:
I'm not sure what a spiritual illness is?


I think that people would argue that it is one for which spiritual remedies work.
i.e. hide or remove the symptoms
and that is as insane as saying
that a man is psychotic, if antipsychotic drugs remove his symptoms, when the symptoms are complaining that he is being unjustly treated by the government, as we all probably are.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16798926 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Psychotics and spiritual persons both believe in things not there.

Very similar.


Don't we all believe in things that are not there in one way or another sooner or later? :shrug:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: lolwut]
    #16798973 -

lolwut said:
It can be. My episodes of psychosis were very, very spiritual and I actually gained a lot from them in terms of understanding the mind, understanding my ideas, other people's ideas, the extent to which our programming influences our conciousness, the fragility of the egoic mind and how it's a house of cards, insight into undesireable states such as anxiety and paranoia, frames of reference in terms of conciousness, the importance of gods/deities for some people, the fact that the physical body has a limit, the mind-body relationship...the list goes on. I actually came out of my psychoses with a stronger mind than before it, and a greater understanding of heaps of stuff.

That being said though, I saw people who's psychoses were just complete ego-centric nonsense (simply grandiose bs), some who had a really bad time and were literally almost scared of shadows and their mind's projections, others who gained little to nothing and were ashamed of their "illness", some who tried ignoring it and lied to themselves that nothing was different/wrong, some who got so maniacal/depressed they took it out on themselves via slamming themselves into walls repetitively or cut themselves severely, etc.

I attribute the difference to 1. my intelligence and 2. my spirituality and 3. my experience in altered states of awareness (drugs/meditation). My experiences allowed me to easily go with the flow of the altered state (psychosis), my spirituality enabled me to understand the really "high" parts of psychosis (it was so much fun - conciousness is "untethered" and just by thinking of spiritual things/reading them it was possible to go on a "journey" to feel the states described) and my intelligence brought both aspects together and enabled me to not freak out and to make sense of the whole thing.

For me at least, my psychosis were circumstantial. Heavy drug use, insomnia, stress, and certain social factors in my life triggered the episodes, and when that happened I made them as deep as possible, for the fun of it. So in that sense I did have control of it, I could have tried resisting it instead of deepening the state. I have no idea if psychosis is determined by genetics.

In other words I enjoyed the psychosis and integrated it well. My case manager tells me its very rare to see someone like me.

Hope this helps :smile:


This resonates with me a lot, except for:

Quote:
In other words I enjoyed the psychosis and integrated it well. My case manager tells me its very rare to see someone like me.

Hope this helps :



--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #16799062 -

dustinthewind13 said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Psychotics and spiritual persons both believe in things not there.

Very similar.


Don't we all believe in things that are not there in one way or another sooner or later? :shrug:



I see very little difference anymore between the so called psychotic and the so called rational normal person.  And the more I see the more I don't like what I see.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Icelander]
    #16799252 -

I remember you once said that you believe psychosis might be the extreme of neurosis. I think in this case the distress would be the main difference, as I've seen really happy people telling themselves similar delusional defensive mechanism to maintain their happiness, as "opposed" to when I was doing the same to get rid of the sadness. Hell, I still do at times, but when I snapped out of my most intense period of psychosis I've learned something from it, among other things. Basically I try and keep my speculation to myself more and more, but I can't help myself from not being skeptical about my imagination at times (what I believe was spiritual about it). However, I think this part is human nature in general though. Nonetheless, there was something special about my condition at the time of my psychosis that makes me believe its not entirely a normal state to a negative extreme, but instead something seperate, since it felt like it was triggered spontaneously and ended the same, while in the meantime a certain theme and ambient was always present. I think abnormal neural activation and functioning is present, but unfortunately I have no proof at the moment, so I should remain skeptical. :courtjester:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16799381 -

I have been down this path myself.
It is what I refer to as my awakening/death, rebirth experience.

In transpersonal psychology (The branch of psychology that deals with unordinary states of consciousness.) it is called ‘spiritual crisis.’

For me, it was triggered by a sufficient depth of honest self-inquiry and reflection which resulted in a complete collapse of my paradigm and eventually my identity….

During this purposeful madness, everything seemed to be rich in meaning and metaphor, signs abound…

Each lead me further and further into darkness… Further and further into that chaos that was to soon devour and ultimately change my personality and strip me of the comforts of the ideological blankets and lenses so many attempt to cloak and assuage the terror of their own abysmal ignorance with.
It is for this reason I lot the religious alongside the atheistic.
You are all naked squabbling over the color of your cloaks and how they look through your chosen perceptual lenses…  Casually and collectively avoiding the abyss yawning at your feet and swallowing everything beyond your peripherals… Dancing your dream dance of denial…

The idea of psychosis seems entirely hinged on experiencing and experiences of that which is outside the cultural consensus of reality and its sanctioned modes of thought, behavior and praxis…

Saint, Madman, Devil… All phenomenon dependent on the syntax we use to birth them and the ideological constructs into which we place them…


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #16799405 -

The atheist reaches for his belief that there is no god like a woman reaches for her panties. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Icelander]
    #16799593 -

:ahahaha: 

Tis true and a good analogy imo...

Every (american) girl I have been with has mentioned to me something along the lines of a nice pair of panties instilling a sense of comfort and confidence.... Which undoubtedly is tied into their culturally engrained gender role and idea of what a women is and what is beautiful, womanly and sexy... Illusion maintenance.


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #16799635 -

that's it


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16799819 -

I think psychosis is both part simple biology and part 'glitch' for lack of a better word, of the mind.  It's a state of mind where for some reason the settings have gotten all changed around and one is flung into a hypervigilant state where they are more susceptible to believing their negative (or sometimes positive) thoughts to be true.  The results of this mindset can often end in delusions and psychosis.

As for whether one can have any control over it, I think some people can while others can't.  I think the people who can control it have a certain kind of self awareness that the people who can't don't.  Like a poster above me said, they learned a lot through their experience with psychosis, as did I through mine.  If someone doesn't tend to constantly take new information in and try to view it as objectively as possible, without the constraints of the ego, then I think if they were get psychosis, they would end up going deeper into their psychoses and be harder to treat than people who do tend to do those things.

I should also add that I'm sure there are some, maybe even many, cases of psychosis/paranoid delusions that are just too strong for anybody to think themselves out of.  Sometimes people just snap.  I think personally, having the realization that what's not right is not my surroundings, but in fact my own mindset, at an early time is probably what helped me the most.  I think the more time that goes on without the awareness that something is wrong, the less likely that someone will be able to break the spell they are under without help from medication and a stay in the psych ward.

I hope that made sense, I'm pretty baked right now and my thoughts were hard to put into words.

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Icelander]
    #16799910 -

Icelander said:
The atheist reaches for his belief that there is no god like a woman reaches for her panties. :satansmoking:



But Satan never existed.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: Is psychosis a spiritual illness [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16800016 -

Psychosis = perceived mental change on behalf of the psychotic individual, ideally in a form that leads to personal growth but oftentimes is muddled with self-created obstacles. It is a "taking of the reins" in personal development instead of leaving everything to genetic auto-pilot. IMHO.

Problems arise when the individual attempts to project motifs of the developing psyche onto external sources (symbols) and then integrate that symbol into a hierarchical series of associations potentially retarding further "positive development" due to a falsely structured imago-motif system that is resistant to change. Thank you, C. Jung.

Here, is a scientific graph I have produced for viewers of relative truth:



A psychon is a unit of psychosis. As you can see, the individual in the above chart is at 26 years old relatively similar to a comparative "normal" person despite large fluctuations in relative psychon buildup, only slightly closer to the "X16" than "Zig" level.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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