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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
materialism=psychosis
    #1657779 - 06/24/03 04:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

at least i think so anyways, all the stuanch materialists/empricists seem to suffer from some complete mental psychosis type consciousness.

robot-minds with insufficient mega-drives.

its like, they cant comprhend the existance of anything non-material, which seems, to me....to negate the whole idea of the unknown, which dominates our lives. they try to force logic in an illogical situation.

but, i guess it does have its positive points, it is a usefull tool in many a situation, but as a comprehensive philosophy....it is non-functional.

i find this to be the same with most philosophies, and thusly declare war on any of you who submits to dogma.

dogmatic automatic problematic whack static fanatics


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Invisiblebuckwheat
Cynically Insane

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657791 - 06/24/03 05:04 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

materialism isnt the cause for theyr robot minds more like an effect of the programing thats running the robot minds


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: buckwheat]
    #1657793 - 06/24/03 05:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

nahhh, its volountary robotism. you look too deep, the answers are in the shallow water.

the human world is only as complex as you want it to be. If all the human race adopted intense, dogmatic materialism, the universe would be as they dictated.

thats how things work.


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657794 - 06/24/03 05:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You do know "assasin" is spelt "assassin", right?  :grin:
It comes from Middle Latin- assassinus, which comes from the Arabic hashshashin, plural of hashshash, (hashish-user), originating from hashish.

Sorry... Connecting the dots in language can be so interesting. 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: Adamist]
    #1657796 - 06/24/03 05:10 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I hide the S because it stands for "secret"

but really, I care not for your esoteric syntax.

but if that is on the real, then that is some cool breezieness.



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Anonymous

Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657798 - 06/24/03 05:10 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

-deleted-


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: ]
    #1657800 - 06/24/03 05:15 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

no, thats social materialism. im talking about matter and electrons and shit.

fuck nice clothes. I like swigging whiskey with dope fiends.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
Cynically Insane

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
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Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657805 - 06/24/03 05:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

ha you noticed that i do look too deep sometimes.i guess its bad for listening to other ppl on a social level. but its good for other things


Edited by mindcandy (06/24/03 05:25 AM)


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657812 - 06/24/03 05:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Please define "material".

Does it include energy?
Does it include the patterns that matter and energy make?
Does it include the information that such patterns contain?

I don't think anyone denies that these things exist.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1657819 - 06/24/03 05:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i never said anything alluded to such an idea.

im not the mood to outline the schema of empiricist thought, so you're gonna have to construct one for yourself, and then apply my statement to whatever you think up.

then you will be able to prepare a proper response.


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Anonymous

Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1657836 - 06/24/03 05:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

-deleted-


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OfflineCockyMandrill
addict

Registered: 01/31/03
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Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: ]
    #1658239 - 06/24/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"Please define "material""

Material is anything made up of matter.

I am really against materialism. The only thing I really care about thats material is my books and my computer, both of which I use to learn so its not just to be cool like rims on a car or nice clothes.

Did you notice that the many european countries are some of the only cultures who never used pschedelic drugs in there culture (not on any big scale at least) and those countries are also the ones that killed all the indians and enslaved so many people just for more material?

Materialism makes me sick, its basically people looking externally for happiness and not paying attention to whats inside, what matters. You'll never reach any end searching externally for happiness and being content, you'll always want more, more more more, and at the end maybe you'll realize the lifelong search was in vain.


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Anonymous

Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1658277 - 06/24/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

-deleted-


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1658322 - 06/24/03 01:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Did you notice that the many european countries are some of the only cultures who never used pschedelic drugs in there culture (not on any big scale at least) and those countries are also the ones that killed all the indians and enslaved so many people just for more material?

Arabs and Africans practiced slavery before the Europeans started importing slaves to America.

American Indians slaughtered each other long before the Europeans arrived; the Europeans just had more people and better weapons.

The Aztecs used pyschedelics and were absolutely blood-thirsty and cruel.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCockyMandrill
addict

Registered: 01/31/03
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Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: Swami]
    #1658351 - 06/24/03 01:31 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Just because the aztecs had sacrifices doesnt mean that they were bloodthirsty and cruel, they were starved and slaughtered by the spanish for there gold.

"So did America. America kicked the native indians ass and had slaves. And slavery and materialism and war happened in most cultures. "
Where did Americans come from?

I was just saying that it seems that cultures with more pschedlic rituals and usage seem to have a correlation of less materialism. I don't think thats the only cause for war, one of the other biggest causes of war and violence is religion.

And when your the last person on earth I sure hope you aint looking for bigger rims while you should be out looking for someone to start a new civilization with.



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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 3 years, 26 days
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1658694 - 06/24/03 04:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CockyMandrill said:
Just because the aztecs had sacrifices doesnt mean that they were bloodthirsty and cruel.






lol!!! Its not blood thirst when you sacrifice people in the name of religion?



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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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OfflineCockyMandrill
addict

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Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1658722 - 06/24/03 04:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It was to their gods. Europeans sacrificed many more indians to steal a new continent so I don't see it being nearly as bad as that. America is more bloodthirsty than any indigenous cultures by far, as I'm sure our country has killed more than any other, and we say its in teh name of 'peace', now that is bullshit.


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OfflineGixxer_boy
Rice Burner

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 149
Loc: Mass
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1659891 - 06/25/03 12:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Your saying killing people for a materialistic personal gain is worse than killing for personal spiritual gain? Also, many more people were murdered by Germany and Russia. Forgot about the holocaust and all those purges?

paradis, I agree, a man should care about his ride and his clothing. this is hard to understand for alot of people, but I have a nasty suzuki gsxr600 (a really racy bike for those who don't know) that I just got painted house of color candy tangerine. I love how it looks, I love the looks it gets, but mostly I love the power and thrills it gives me. I also love wearing good clothing, because it helps in getting looks from women, no other reason really. Does this make me a psychotic materialist, or a social materialist as you said?


Atomik, earlier, you said you were not talking about social materialism but electrons and shit, and then you respond to a question about energy and such and you say you never allude to such an idea. If your just gonna snap at people for trying to understand what you are saying while seemingly contradicting yourself, maybe you should be more clear or just not bother talking, because it seems like no one understands what it is you are trying to say.

Btw paradis, what kinda car do you have and what color did you paint it?


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"Why do women have breasts?"
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"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: Gixxer_boy]
    #1660016 - 06/25/03 12:44 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

when I said that I said nothing alluded to such an idea, I was replying to rhizoid who said "I don't think anyone denies that these things exist"

and what I mean by materialism is, the belief that all that exists is material/matter. Ive debated with quite a few of these types, and every single time, I come away feeling like ive just been berated by a christian fundamentalist.

the type of materialism im reffering to is, the belief that only matter exists, and that matter dictates all behaviour, and every human experience is just a causal effect of matter interaction, you know...the whole, love is just chemical reaction type shit.

i mean, obviously love is related to the chemicals in your brain, but to say the sole cause of love, or compassion or anything is genetic and chemical, to me....is F.U.C.T.


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: materialism=psychosis [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1660103 - 06/25/03 01:23 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the thing.

Ken Wilber has this model of reality he calls the four quadrant model. There are four aspects to everything in reality: The individual exterior and interior, and the collective exterior and interior. Almost everyone tends to focus on only one of these four quadrants -- the materialists you are talking about focus on the exterior aspect of reality, which is the objective, measurable side of things.

Thus, when thinking about a thought, for example, they tend to focus on the material aspect of things -- the neurons which fire, the chemicals released, the synapses and so forth. Now these things are real. But equally real is the corresponding individual interior quadrant of that thought, which is the lived experience of that chemical process, the felt subjective thing. This quadrant, unlike the individual exterior, cannot be measured, it must rather be interpreted.

That is, if you want to know how I feel, you can't just give me a CAT scan; you have to ask me and count on me relaying the experience accurately. Interpretation is messy and unreliable sometimes so the scientific method has tended to reject its reality in favor of the more tangible exterior quadrant, and has as a result created a lifeless model of the world that lacks any depth and denies the lived experience that we all KNOW is real.

Any time someone says that love is "just" chemicals, this is what is known as reductionism -- you are collapsing the interior dimension into the exterior and claiming that this is the only thing that has any validity. Behaviorist psychology is one of the biggest offenders in this mess, and it has been tremendously influential in the way most of us think. Clearly both are correct, as you mentioned, but they are only partially correct. They do not present the entire picture, though we, in our binary stupidity, tend to take the first truth we see and call it the whole thing.

Some people prefer to focus on the interior quadrants and ignore the objective physical correlates, but this is equally reductionistic. Both sides of reality must be honored in order to take an integral view of the world or any phenomenon in it. In fact, integral vision requires us to look at all four quadrants, which include, again, both the individual and collective interiors and exteriors. (For humans, the collective interior is culture and the collective exterior is society.)

If you are interested in any of this I highly recommend Wilber's Sex Ecology Spirituality. He explains it much better than I could hope to...


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