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 Kerr
Who else would I be
Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
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 Lacking spiritual direction 
#4305375 - 06/16/05 08:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey everyone, I'm in trouble. It seems that I am heading nowhere in terms of my spirituality at this moment in time. Here is a little bit of my background first.
I am 22, single, living with a roommate. I have been interested in entheogens and altered states for the past 3 or 4 years. I have had a few experiences with mushrooms, S. divinorum, cannabis and other various psychoactives. I want to be able to use these experiences for spiritual/religious purposes but don't seem to have a framework to incorporate them.
I'm not sure if I believe in God in the Christian sense, I am leaning more towards the side that everything is energy, and everything is one and that we are god. I want to believe it but I have had no experience with it. How does one incorporate a religion/spirituality into their lives when they haven't had such until now.
I'm not really sure what Religion to choose, if that is the right word for it. They all have things that I can agree with and things that I disagree with.
Basically I want to know and feel that I am furthering my spiritual path and going somewhere with this all.
What are everyones thoughts, how do you incorporate the psychedelic experience into your religion. Or maybe you don't have a religion, how do you incorporate what you have learned into everyday life. Instead of a religion do some of you have rituals that you perform to further your path. Thanks in advance 
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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
 
Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4305418 - 06/16/05 08:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dreamt.. :P
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Disclaimer!?
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4305423 - 06/16/05 08:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just live your life, don't try to escape into some hyperdimension or something. Spirituality is right there in front of you, in your everyday life. It's not in levitation and yoda talk. Go fishing
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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4305477 - 06/16/05 08:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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First, I think it's very positive that you are doing some searching for a deeper understanding about life.
I think one of the major roadblocks you may be experiencing is that you are specifically looking for exact answers and what to believe. Try letting go of that desire and just letting your outlook form. You'll probably find that when you're trying to believe something, you really don't believe in it on an emotional level.
I think it's also good to point out the role entheogens can have in spiritual development and exploration. Many times the perception is that drugs reveal knowledge and lead to "enlightenment". This can end up happening as a result of entheogens, but it is not the entheogens which are "showing" you these revelations, but rather they inspire YOU to make the revelations.
I try to look at religion from a certain perspective. As human civilizations developed, there were people who explored mysticism and new modes of what we call spiritual thought. Religion is a result of human being?s attempt to understand itself, not so much that there is a ?true? religion which the right one. Again, it should be the same thing as with entheogens, it?s not the religion which is showing you these revelations, but it is YOU who is taking in what others have to say and understanding it for yourself.
Also learn to appreciate the search for spiritual development and don?t worry about reaching ?enlightenment? or other religious clich?s. I have found that when I have had mystical experiences, I?ve started to realize that such romanticized ?mystical? ideas are trying to communicate the experience to those who haven?t had them, but ultimately they are no more mystical or spiritual as doing mundane things, even taking a shit. Think of it this way, if spirituality is about having an appreciation for life & existence, that encompasses all of your experiences, even the ones which do not seem to have any significance.
That?s not to say that those ?mystical? experiences aren?t special, as they can certainly be so awe inspiring as to truly change your outlook on life. Rather, just try and appreciate the experiences for the experiences themselves rather than trying to frame it within a religious or spiritual mind frame. Just appreciate the fact that it?s possible for such experiences to be possible.
I hope that was helpful, and let me know how things develop for you. Don?t be afraid to ask questions and consider new ideas. That?s just my advice though.
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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.
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Kerr
Who else would I be
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Twirling]
#4305551 - 06/16/05 08:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the great advice everyone
I have another question now. So when I go into a trip what type of mindset should I have. I understand that a happy, healthy, carefree mindset is proper, but what I mean is in relation to having some type of intent.
I know that I should just go with the flow, but I'm thinking that shamans must have ultimately had some type of goal to reach. Whether it be for healing, predicting the future, communion with gods or what have you.
What should my intent then be, should I then meditate to some drumming, holding in my meditation the search for something higher, something more? Is that the first step?
I realize that I should just relax and it all with eventually happen, but the problem is I want it to happen now. By it I mean some sign to point me in the right direction, a speck of truth to leak out and give me food for the hunt. The hunt for knowledge, I am frustrated, I want to learn something new everyday, not just things on the outside, but things on my inside. I want to feel my progression and know that I am getting somewhere, grrrrr!.
Thanks for listening everyone
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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser
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 kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4305591 - 06/16/05 08:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"I'm not really sure what Religion to choose, if that is the right word for it. They all have things that I can agree with and things that I disagree with"
listen to all of them, and at the same don't choose any of them.
"I want to be able to use these experiences for spiritual/religious purposes but don't seem to have a framework to incorporate them."
i think you do! I'm no more better equipped than you are, all you have to do is just be aware of your reactions. have your ideas and thoughts about how you view reality and your world changed over time? if you stop to notice how your thoughts have evolved, then you'll answer your own question. the fact that you want to further evolve is also a good indicator.
"how do you incorporate the psychedelic experience into your religion. Or maybe you don't have a religion, how do you incorporate what you have learned into everyday life. Instead of a religion do some of you have rituals that you perform to further your path."
it depends on your surrounding for one. Last weekend I did acid for the first time (300 microgram tab!!!) and it was at a forest (bush) party in which some really good psytrance Dj's were playing. It was still a spritual experience because I learned to let go of my own self judgement and other thoughts and just move and dance as my body wanted. I then came out of the party feeling really good (and a clear head! ). You keep that experience with you and can grow from it.
The thing is that I can tell you of my experiences, but thats not really enough. I may just realize something one day that you may have known for quite a long time, and vice-versa. As long as you keep seeking and learning, your path will evolve in its own way.
pretty cool eh?  
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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RyanKerr:
OldWoodSpecter just laid out some excellant advice...follow it. As for your second question. Entheogens can be pointers to A path which is multifold, but they are not THE path...some of the scenery maybe...but definitely not the path. Look to your core values, morals, and beliefs for that info. If you want to have a good trip just go into a safe and pleasant setting...listen to music...enjoy the company of a friend or the forest....but your your spiritual path itself does not lie there.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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spudamore
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4305803 - 06/16/05 10:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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just because you think you are not heading where you want to in your spiritual terms doesn't mean that you aren't living it right now, there are no right or wrongs paths, the only path is the one that you are living.
every choice, decision, action is apart of your life's path if you don't like it choose better choice, decisions and actions that is going to help you "grow spiritually" and where you would like to go in life.
there is no real need to be egar you are learning and living what you are meant to be at this point in time, just sit back and let life unfold.
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
Edited by spudamore (06/16/05 11:04 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,364
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: spudamore]
#4306022 - 06/16/05 10:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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lots of good talk.
I'm impressed!
really.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4306896 - 06/17/05 08:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi Ryan, The use of entheogens, has had a profound effect on my spiritual development. Although it is only one of many paths. I used them for many many years with limited effect. That is not to say they weren't valuable on a spiritual level. It helped alot in certain ways. But it was not until I used them more consciously and in a Shamanic framework (whatever that means to you) that they had a very transformational effect. Terrance McKenna explores the idea of the Committed Dose or Heroic Dose in some of his work. The first time I did this I experienced some major changes in my ability to effect change in my personal life. I was fortunate enough to meet someone who had been fully down that path and could act as a guide and support for me. But this all is just my experience and may be meaningless for you. But as you expressed an interest I wanted to share this.
Over time my ideas of life have evolved. I no longer believe in God per se. I do believe in unlimited energy and my own conclusions from my experience are that the free uninhibited flow of that energy manifests itself as pure Love. Other manifestations of that same energy when blocked or stagnant, could be what some call the dark side of nature. Just simple speculations from some one who doesn't know anything for sure.
But that's just it. You can trust your own exploration, because you have just as much chance to find something true as anyone else. In fact one of the great steps in spiritual evolution that I have found is the day you decide to work out your own salvation, trust in yourself first and foremost. Use what ever others offer and take only what you need and feel free to construct you own beliefs, knowing it's a crap shoot.
I think you will do well whatever you choose. Whatever happens, it will be exactly what you need at the moment for your growth. Weather you see that or not.  
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kerr
Who else would I be
Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Icelander]
#4306965 - 06/17/05 09:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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From the bottom of my heart thank you all for your genuine responses and great advice. I just need to relax and sit back and watch it unfold. Thanks for steering me back onto the road
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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307030 - 06/17/05 09:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why don't you choose not too follow one religion and instead take the parts of many religions that feel right to you.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Kerr
Who else would I be
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: barfightlard]
#4307129 - 06/17/05 10:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bellylard said:
Why don't you choose not too follow one religion and instead take the parts of many religions that feel right to you.
I have thought about this before, I have had interests in Zoroastrian, Sufism, Shamanism, Wicca and Pagan followings. I have read Tao and Buddhist literature as well some on the Rastafarian faith. So I guess that maybe I should just make up my own religion lets call it Ryanism. What do you all think?
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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307146 - 06/17/05 10:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sounds perfect!
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307331 - 06/17/05 11:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Me thinks thou art verrry spiritual already. 
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307334 - 06/17/05 11:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is a mistake, in my opinion, to go shopping for a religion or a belief system. Religions are cohesive entities of beliefs and rituals that serve to encapsulate and protect a precious inner Truth. Truth is a word that I equate with the word Reality [Truth=Reality] - what is True is what is Real (Ultimately Real).
The spiritual quest piggy-backs off the human developmental stage of adolescence. The single question that characterizes adolescence according to developmentalists like Erik Erikson is "Who am I?" Also, this very same question is called 'Nan Yaar'in Hindu Advaita philosophy - Advaita [Non-Dualism] IS descriptive of your own statement about identity with GOD, so it is not just an arbitrary topic that I'm putting out there. I'm also not suggesting that you follow the path of Jnana Yoga (Yoga of Knowledge) which is what Advaita teaches (most profoundly through the person of Sri Ramana Maharishi http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/ramana.html). What I AM suggesting is that the first step in realizing who one is spiritually is to begin with an honest amount of 'self-inquiry [Vichara Atma].
Ask yourself who you are. How were you raised? What are your family's ethics? What religious myths are already present and accounted for in your unconscious since childhood? These are, whether you like them or not, the seeds and roots of a genuine spirituality. Hey, I knew kids who joined the 3HO Kundalini Yogis, wore turbins and called themselves Maharishi so-and-so. Didn't work. I know a guy in Miami who has tatooed Tibetan Buddhist words on his body, has obtained and wears the robes of a Lama, and who is both delusional and fraudulent. It is very possible to absorb aspects of Truth from other faiths (I certainly have), but the bottom line is always grounded in the Truth, the Reality of 'Who am I?' It is foundational.
If one attempts to define a belief system on what appeals to you intellectually, without there being any basis or foundation in your physical-socio-cultural self, then one is 'building castles in the air.' As we used to say as psychotherapists, the difference between Neurotics and Psychotics (mildly vs. profoundly disturbed people) is: Neurotics build castles in the air, but Psychotics live in them
Lastly, genuine religious experience - even when "occasioned" (in the words of Huston Smith) by Entheogens, will inform you directly. You will come away from an experience which when transformed down to intellectual and emotional aspects will become apparent to you which religion will welcome your experience and you too because genuine religious experience transforms the experiencer. One then lives out that experience. Wait and see.
Peace.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Kerr
Who else would I be
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Thanks for the new replies everyone. With all your insight I think I am starting to see some type of reassurance in myself that I will find what I am looking for.
Thanks for the link on Jnana Yoga Markos, but unfortunately the link was broken. But I googled it and found some good sites, I am reading them right now.
I have also been listening to alot of Terence McKenna today, the man is a genius, he blows me away and not to mention I love hearing his voice. In an audio clip from True Hallucinations, he talked about a " forward escape", he said it was the only way out, there was no going back. Just like being in the womb, you are feed and supplied oxygen without even knowing it, you are floating around in complete bliss he said. Then all of a sudden you find yourself in the birth canal being squished to hell.
Terence says that is where we as a human race are right now. Soon enough we are going to making a monumental push out our birth canal we cal reality. Just think that is we were capable of modulating reality.
When I heard this I was kind of shocked, not because it seemed so far fetched, but in the fact that I had written something so similar that it mad my head spin. I have had a small creative writing project on the go for the past two year or so. It is a fictional journal with real fact based on the life and travels of a young man who befriends a shaman. In the start of my book I introduce the setting as that of a world that had undergone a complete conscious shift.
My theory was that a combined conscious effort was able to actually changed reality itself. I donno just a crazy theory, got some inspiration from Jerry Garcia on that one. When I go to my parents place next I will grab my books and such and post the introduction
Quote:
Neurotics build castles in the air, but Psychotics live in them
I like that
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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser
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Arp
roving mycophagist
Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307577 - 06/17/05 01:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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True Hallucinations is a good book! Im reading Food of the Gods
right now and it's realy good to. Invisible Landscapes was to techy
for me but had alot of interesting information aswell.
Havnt read the Food book yet but I'd recommend it from what I have read!
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Arp
roving mycophagist
Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Arp]
#4307592 - 06/17/05 01:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Another nice book is "Breaking Open the Head" (http://www.breakingopenthehead.com has some excerpts).
At first I found it alittle cynical (he's a new york:er), but either he toned it down or I got used to it
Reading & listening to lectures can be very rewarding
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
It is very possible to absorb aspects of Truth from other faiths (I certainly have), but the bottom line is always grounded in the Truth, the Reality of 'Who am I?' It is foundational.
Which is perhaps why the archetype of Odin resonates within me much more than that of Jesus. 
 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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spudamore
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: Kerr]
#4307716 - 06/17/05 01:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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one last thing don't listen to any of us, or our advice. so you can choose to accept or reject this statement if you like. one does not need to be directed by others if you listen to yourself and what you feel, you will be on your path. never accept something that you have not experienced, read, or seems like the majority beleifs.
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: fireworks_god]
#4308486 - 06/17/05 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who is this Wotan? "He is the god of storm and frenzy, the unleasher of passions and the lust of battle; moreover he is a superlative magician and artist in illusion who is versed in all secrets of an occult nature." (3) "Wotan disappeared when his oaks fell and appeared again when the Christian God proved too weak to save Christendom from fratricidal slaughter." (4) "I venture the heretical suggestion that the unfathomable depths of Wotan's character explain more of National Socialism than" (5) all economic, political and psychological factors put together.
"[T]he gods are without doubt personifications of psychic forces..." (6) And when one is possessed by such a god there is not much one can do about it and in the case of Wotan we're talking about "a fundamental attribute of the German psyche." (7)
http://www.meta-religion.com/Psychiatry/Analytical_psychology/jungs_shadow.htm
They are not equivalent archetypes, the Odin-Wotan complex and Christ. The former belongs to a pantheon and one can see the 'bleeding' of attibutes from Thor (which is equivalent to Mars-Ares, Indra and other warrior gods). There are similarities with 'hanging on a [world] tree,' which is a NT reference to the cross of Christ, but the Odin-Wotan archetype doesn't serve the same purpose of Wholeness.
I have German roots, my name Mark (actually Marc, thus Marcus) derives from the Roman god Mars. The word martial derives from Mars (I used to be into Judo and Jujitsu). I was a 'hawk' before I was a 'dove' - Pagan vs. Christian, and I understand the archetype, but it doesn't embody the 'Central' archetype through which Wholeness is realized, and this is important to understand for one's personal development.
Peace.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Personally, I do not favor Jung's analysis of the Odin archetype at all, as I see it as being plauged with misunderstanding and inaccuracies on Jung's part. I have not extensively studied into Jung and what he has spoke of Odin, and I am not presently capable of refuting his analysis of the Odin archetype, but I strongly urge you to check out the book by Ralph Metzner (no less ), The Well Of Rememberance.
As soon as I straighten out my account at the library, I will pick up the book and directly quote from it.
I wasn't placing Odin as an equivalent archetype to that of Jesus, however, I personally find more similarities betwen myself and Odin than I do with Christ, as I understand them to be.
I see Odin as a shaman, as someone who sacrifices himself for a true understanding of reality, etc. etc. etc. I need to obtain that book again.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: fireworks_god]
#4310322 - 06/18/05 07:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes,please do, I would like to hear more.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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The_Walrus
Stranger
Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Cambridge, Britain
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: fireworks_god]
#4310324 - 06/18/05 07:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe hallucinogens that induce altered states of consciousness help one to come to terms with concepts such as mortality and appreciate the 'bigger picture'. It is all well and good to say that you are one individual out of billions that have lived on the earth, and that your lifespan is but an eyeblink compared to the age of the universe, and basically how huge the world and the universe really is, but to actually feel it, experience it and comprehend it is another question alltogether. It is pretty certain that everything you hold true and constant, for example the city of Cambridge where I have lived all my life, that in as little as a hundred years time this area could be changed beyond recognisability, it might be underwater if global warming goes ahead as the city is below water level, and that some time in the future the human race will either cease to exist or change beyond recognition.
It is true that we are made of trillions upon trillions of atoms of elements which were made via nuclear fusion in stars billions of years ago from hydrogen. Big concepts like that transcend the ordinary experiences we have every day and hallucinogens give one an idea that these everyday experiences what we constitute as reality or common sense is just one way in which to look at the world, that as far as the universe is concerned we are just insignificant and basically arrogant in the way we try to impose our assumptions about nature based on our limited experiences on the universe. I guess the way mushrooms help you to so called 'think outside of the box', look at things from different perspectives and frames of reference, and most of all the feelings of empathy are greatly enchanced. I believe all these are absolutely necessary for keeping a full spiritual perspective, enlightenment is not an ends, it is a journey, a state of mind. It doesn't matter how you structure your spirituality, be it through religion, philosophy, art, science or simply being, they are simply feeling different parts of the elephant, superficially they are different but underneath they are all trying to express and/or understand/make sense of the continuous experience that is life. Science tries to understand the external world, art deals with the internal world, religion and philosophy try to combine both, but ultimately they are all very good. It is just up to the individual really to make sense of things in their own way and 'follow their own path' I guess.
Me for example, I have no rituals, I just like to take time out from all the stresses and hassles of modern life, clear my mind and free it to from distraction so I can think and reflect on whatever comes to me really, don't really have to think either, being in perfect silence and calm itself gives one a sense of continuity, clarity and inner peace. I try to do this whenever I can really, I also like to read books to find out about the rest of the world and how it has come to be how it is and the different perspectives from which it can be interpreted, like religious texts such as the Hindu Scriptures, popular science books such as 'the elegant universe'. Reading is a very rewarding passtime really...
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'Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted' - Albert Einstein
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Lacking spiritual direction [Re: fireworks_god]
#4310473 - 06/18/05 09:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think that I will look for Metzner's book, thanks. I have never actually read the guy whose name appears on the classic The Psychedelic Experience
(he said he actually kept house when Leary and Alpert wrote it).
Anyway, no intention to tread on what seems meaningful to you. I appreciate anyone who questions authority - the authority of Jung takes particular chutzpa to question Remember that at the time, propagandists were using Teutonic mythology in such a way as to portray Hitler as Wotan, and Hitler himself was completely enamored of Wagnerian mythic operatic themes which colored his plan for world conquest. There was also a strong magical theme with the Nazi inner circle deriving from rune magic, the acquisition of 'The Spear of Destiny' and other anti-Christian elements. One might even say that Hitler's drug involvement with amphetamines constituted a shamanic path through psychosis because of his fear-drenched visionary experiences of the 'Ubermensch.' Cautionary statements about the archetype in question is balanced by other insensitive remarks that, while logical, strike many people as plain antisemitism.
I found a neat site that you might dig: http://www.louisville.edu/~rnstcl01/R-World-tree.html 
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Remember that at the time, propagandists were using Teutonic mythology in such a way as to portray Hitler as Wotan, and Hitler himself was completely enamored of Wagnerian mythic operatic themes which colored his plan for world conquest. There was also a strong magical theme with the Nazi inner circle deriving from rune magic, the acquisition of 'The Spear of Destiny' and other anti-Christian elements. One might even say that Hitler's drug involvement with amphetamines constituted a shamanic path through psychosis because of his fear-drenched visionary experiences of the 'Ubermensch.'
I understand this; however, my point is that, while these Nazi practices were influenced by Odin and the subsequent mythology related to him, I feel that their interpretation and utilization of this mythology regarding Odin were incorrect in revealing the true nature of the archetype complex Odin. Essentially, they did not understand and instead revealed a hideous montrosity of an archetype - perhaps they were pulling in the energy of Jotunheim and not of Vanir.... 
Perhaps it is even possible that Hitler was a manifestation of Loki, representing himself as Odin in such a trademark manner. 
I don't believe that Jung, based on the parts of his assessment of Odin that I have read, understood the Odin archetype for what it was and still is. I feel that Metzner does a far better job of explaining how this is than I ever could at this point, I'm just not experienced enough in this area to really know more than half of what I'm talking about. 
Quote:
Cautionary statements about the archetype in question is balanced by other insensitive remarks that, while logical, strike many people as plain antisemitism.
Regardless of how strucken many people might be that some of my remarks bare traces of antisemtism, I do not see any implied meanings that verify this.
Quote:
I found a neat site that you might dig: http://www.louisville.edu/~rnstcl01/R-World-tree.html
Tusen takk, I'll enjoy researching into this site.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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