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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
"Letting go" & Booze...
    #1577919 - 05/26/03 09:51 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Everyone,
So lately there's all this talk about "letting go"/"be your true self"/"just be" etc...
zo, when you're inerbiated, and it's easy to "let go"... how come some people go out and do horrible things in this state of "letting go" ? Is our "true self" not as nice as we might like to believe ?
I realize there's a diff between a meditative "letting go" and being intoxicated, but I'd like to know everyone elses opinion... :crazy: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: "Letting go" & Booze... [Re: lucid]
    #1578112 - 05/26/03 12:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

how come some people go out and do horrible things in this state of "letting go" ? Is our "true self" not as nice as we might like to believe ?
 




Alcohol quickly rots judgement. Our normal "red flag system" for avoiding danger fails us, to a degree depending on our level of intoxication. Drunk people let go of their fears of everything from public ridicule to physical injury.

Letting go of fears can be a liberating experience, but using alcohol to do this poses several serious problems, IMO:

1. The person probably doesn't realize they are 'letting go' of fears. It isn't a conscious decision to let go, it's just an impulse unhindered by the presence of judgement. There's little or no discretion or self-control involved. In other words, the person isn't letting go of fears because their wisdom tells them it is important for self growth; they're just being a drunkass. And if one does happen to see how the shedding of fear was a liberating, empowering experience, they aren't likely to remember this insight when they wake up.

2. It would be a shame if alcohol was the only method they found to be successful in letting go of fears. If it were they would have to be drunk for all their moments of greatness.  :smirk:

3. One's true self is nowhere to be found when they are drunk. Anyone who's done any drinking knows that people become different people when they are under the influence.

I think being your true self pretty much has to be in your 'ground state.'  Alcohol doesn't help you conquer your fears; it only helps you forget them for a while. 


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #1578119 - 05/26/03 12:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Brilliant !
so it appears that "letting go" implies that the presence of judgement and wisdom not be relenquished...
So one is not truely letting go to the point of chaos, but rather in a controled sense. Ironic, "letting go" but yet being in control in some sense. Perhaps it's the limitation of language and reasoning that makes this subtlety a difficult idea to comprehend.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
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Re: [Re: lucid]
    #1578203 - 05/26/03 01:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

so it appears that "letting go" implies that the presence of judgement and wisdom not be relenquished...
So one is not truely letting go to the point of chaos, but rather in a controled sense. Ironic, "letting go" but yet being in control in some sense.




I think control is integral to letting go. If we're specifically talking about letting go of fears, judgement is necessary for identifying both the specific fear, and its repercussions on one's life. Wisdom is necessary for the faith it takes to break the fear (by doing the very thing one fears doing.)

Quote:

Perhaps it's the limitation of language and reasoning that makes this subtlety a difficult idea to comprehend. 




Heheh. Every discussion in S&P has those limitations. :grin:
 


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #1578224 - 05/26/03 01:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Is our "true self" not as nice as we might like to believe ?"

i dont think that when someone gets drunk they become their "true selves".

in fact, it is quite the opposite. I think if someone wants to "let go" (whatever that means....i guess you mean detaching oneself from social pressures?) it should be as conscious as possible.........but with no effort.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: "Letting go" & Booze... [Re: lucid]
    #1578233 - 05/26/03 01:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

for the love of god please don't "let go" people! hold it in!
won't somebody please think of the "children"!
we have rules around here!




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OfflineSole_Worthy
Stranger

Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
Loc: over here
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: "Letting go" & Booze... [Re: lucid]
    #1578576 - 05/26/03 03:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Let go and flow with the feeling...

Whateva feeling it is youll flow with it. If your feeling angry then flowing with that wouldnt be so cool.

Spose youd have to let go of emotions too...



--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1580480 - 05/27/03 03:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)


alkahol impairs you, it doesn't show your true self while drunk, it shows a dumbass who doesn't care. I hate that feeling.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: [Re: Murex]
    #1581169 - 05/27/03 12:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Alcohol can impair you, but so can mushrooms.

Any drug can be a wonderful thing, and alcohol is no exception. While the effects of alcohol can be frightening and stupifying, there is no need to be a condescending holier-than-thou dick towards those who enjoy using it. Many people, particularly in the SP&P forum seem to think alcohol is totally evil, and its users are lower caste, unenlightened swine. Many wonderful and insightful pieces of art and literature were created under the influence of alcohol, often it can make an akward social situation loose and jovial. It can truly be a marvellous drug.

On that note, when I'm not drunk, there's nothing I despise more than having to interact with drunk people. I can generally sense it before they even speak, it's like they're posessed with a violent retardation.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineTeknoJunkie
Pioneer

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 38
Loc: The Mountains
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: [Re: Phluck]
    #1581862 - 05/27/03 05:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote Sole Worthy: "Whateva feeling it is youll flow with it. If your feeling angry then flowing with that wouldnt be so cool.
Spose youd have to let go of emotions too..."


I feel that expressing your emotions, whatever they are, _can_ help put you in an objective perspective. A long time ago, when I was angry at certain circumstances and the world in general, I'd go to the salvation army and buy some inexpensive plates. Then I would go home and drink some wine and go into my linoleum floored kitchen and proceed to break all of the plates I had purchased. At the time, it was one of best things I could have done for myself. Afterward, sweeping up all of the pieces as adrenaline coursed through me and started to die down, I would feel my release. And I would come to many positive realizations about whatever it was that made me upset.

Alcohol, like any other drug, can be used for certain purposes to help you discover more of and about yourself.


--------------------
:oogle:  :pacman: :tripping:


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