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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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letting go of "letting go"...
    #2135179 - 11/25/03 04:21 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

This is a rant...
sorry but I'm really tired of this "let go" New-Age tripe...
It's so cliche. If u let go, which is what happens
just before sleep, your thoughts will become very
dream like and will float around from one image, shape,
sound, feeling to another, sometimes delving intensly
into one. There is no peace or hapiness in letting go...
Nightmares r a good example of this. You've completely
let go (in fact u have to in order to go to sleep) and
the brain starts generating images, feelings etc in
the form of a dream, and some of these can be terrifying.
Letting go doesn't lead to some "Awakened" "Blissful" state
- that's just hookey crap that people regurgitate so
that they can write and sell books and make lots of money
off of the miserable masses...
sorry to sound so depressing, but this is truely how I feel.
Evolution has designed us living things to constantly be
wanting more... 
here's a no-brainer, if being blissful and content is
our natural state then we'd all still be sitting in caves
and chillin, cause there'd be no need to develop all these
things.

We're constantly motivated to do stuff cause we're miserable.
there...
now u may flame me  :smirk:     
ok, so I'm obviously exagerating for dramatic effect, but
I do truely believe that "Bliss is our true nature" and
"all we have to do is let go" are misleading, unverifiable
and not the panecea they're purported to be.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: lucid]
    #2135236 - 11/25/03 04:43 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

The only time I talk about letting go is when somebody has done a lot of acid, shrooms, etc and has the choice... bad trip or let go and see where the ride takes you.

When meditating, I tell people to simply sit... not to worry about things that pop into their mind... just sit. This isn't the same as letting go... if you let go, your mind wanders... simply sitting is kind of the opposite of letting go in a round-about sort of way.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineZenGecko
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: Seuss]
    #2136810 - 11/26/03 05:49 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

i'd argue that in a dream you dont really let go, there is still a "you" an "i". Or atleast you persist even in the dream, in a comparable mental state to the one that your generally in while awake. When i dream, i feel like me, there is just alot of weird shit going on, but i'm still the same ol Dave, whether i'm aware i'm dreaming or not. i've had two moments where i accidently with out trying let go, and really that is the trick i think, trying to let go is ultimately self defeating probably, it just happens when your ready for it to happen, but even in those moments i never felt like i let go fully, but damn even when i did partially the feeling that rushed over me is like nothing i have ever experienced or even thought was possible to experience. IF you havent had an experience like that i'm sorry, your missing out, i could tell you what it was like for me but you still wouldn't truely be able to appreciate the feeling. It was bliss, it was complete and utter contentment, and zero fear. It fundamentally altered who i am, and literally changed my perception of the everyday world. "here" feels competely different then it used to, everything even literally looks different, its more surreal but yet if feels more real then i ever remembering it feeling. It was like dying, or being born, either, both i dont know, but if you haven't experienced it you can't begin to understand what its truely like, and i can personally vouch for the fact, that it was "letting go" atleast partially that got me there. If you truely let go in dreams you'd know it, you'd be scared shitless just before falling asleep everynight, there is nothing more disconcerting then feeling yourself, your "id" "ego" whatever, slipping away when your not ready for it, and its ulitmately the fear of that that prevents you from letting go, atleast till your ready, or atleast fully.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2136892 - 11/26/03 07:41 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Letting go could be seen as running away from your problems. Instead of dealing with them, you just ignore them. In the past, when I've had a world of shit I should have been focusing on, I would choose to go lie in a field somewhere and force myself to forget it all.

I have formed a certain loathing for the whole "let go, maaan, no worries!" attitude. It's something Im definately trying to distance myself from.


However, I don't know about you, but every now and then I feel a very pure surge of wild energy... usually brought on by a certain visual or audio stimuli, where everything I've been concerning myself with suddenly fades away for a brief moment and I experience something very beautiful, I would even say divine.

But it's nothing I would want to try to consciously practice or harness. They are wild moments... they are meant to come and go as they please.



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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: Grav]
    #2136925 - 11/26/03 08:35 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

i dont see letting go as running away, atleast not the kind of letting go i'm talking about. it sounds corny but really my ultimate goal is to reach enlightenment, or this thing that people call enlightenment, i dont know, but i do know that right now the only thing stopping me is, me. My own fear is what preventing me from getting past this wall i keep running into while meditating. Its the fear of loosing myself, letting go of my ego, and all my desires, but since that is such an unknown state of being i fear it, i want it, i feel like i need it, and i can't help but try for it at this moment, but i still fear it, even though i believe that if i could just get there it would be well worth it. As far as those moments you were talking about, i dont know if they are the same as what i'm talking about. They might be, but to a lessor degree, or maybe hell i dont know they could have been way more profound, but they didn't happen to me so i cant really know. One thing i am relatively sure of though is, that there are degrees of enlightenment.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: lucid]
    #2136962 - 11/26/03 08:57 AM (13 years, 12 days ago)

so that's your perspective right?? how are you going to say what motivates me??

"We're constantly motivated to do stuff cause we're miserable."

really? I can name many tiems when I'm not miserable. sometimes I am of course, but a lot of the times I'm not. you can be miserable if you want to. you can also do the opposite. it's really judgement values. it's what keeps the mind racing. this judgement of values, aka saying what IS correct and incorrect.

if you "let go" of this judgement, you will stop, as one person put it, "the internal dialogue" which will lead to a clearer mind. clarity is what's important, because without it, we cann't truley see what IS, only a portion. when you can really see what is, that's when you start to feel your "actual nature"

in order to do this you have to "let go"



--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineGrav
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: kaiowas]
    #2137754 - 11/26/03 02:22 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

ZenGecko, should all fears be smashed, or are some there for a reason?


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OfflinePedM
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: lucid]
    #2137988 - 11/26/03 03:27 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

>> I do truely believe that "Bliss is our true nature" and "all we have to do is let go" are misleading, unverifiable and not the panecea they're purported to be.

Absolutely, they are very misleading statements. The first statement is against the grain of most everything we've observed or have been taught, and the second is vauge and esoteric. Let go of what, exactly?

With regards to the statement: "Bliss is our true nature", I only have a few things to say. If our basic essence were not happy and peaceful, why would we experience suffering when we encounter the antithesis of these things: anger, chaos, and so forth? All of us can relate to the miserable feelings that arise when somebody becomes angry with us, or when we become angry with others. We become tense and confused, and we wish that the situation would end immediately. If our basic essence were bitterness and strife, we would delight in these things every time we heard some bad news, or witnessed a crime.


>> if being blissful and content is our natural state then we'd all still be sitting in caves and chillin, cause there'd be no need to develop all these things. We're constantly motivated to do stuff cause we're miserable.

We are miserable because we have been seperated from our nature of bliss. We engage in destructive behaviours because our ignorance leads us to believe that destructive behaviours will guide us back to our happiness. Lets look at the example of pride.

Most of us are raised to believe that we are the greatest beings to grace the surface of the earth. Our parents tell us that we are wonderful; our other relatives and their friends bathe us with praise and attention. Truly, for the first part of our lives, we're made to believe we are gods. Though, eventually we will encounter somebody who finds us distasteful, reprehensible. Before long, somebody is telling us that we're awful. It may be the first time we encounter insecurity.

Some may respond to that insecurity by recalling their positive attributes, exaggerating their good qualities back to themselves, and developing a sense of pride and self-importance. We may develop habits of charlantry, boastfulness. For a while, this makes us feel happy. But it is not a true happiness; it is pre-sabotaged and temporary.

Soon, we'll have set standards for ourselves that we cannot meet, and others in their wisdom will begin to expose this to us. We then fall backward into shame and insecurity, feeling miserable and unhappy withourselves. The cycle repeats again as we attempt to antidote the insecurity with greater pride.

We can find examples of this cycle in every aspect of our lives, underlying almost all of our behaviour. It is our ignorance which prevents us from recognizing such an ongoing phenomenon, and consequently it is our ignorance which brings us away from our basic state of blissful awareness.

Believe it or not, the means of escaping this cycle is actually to let go, fully and completely. But what are we letting go of?

Whenever we encounter a problem, the first thing that we sense is "me" or "I". There is a feeling of importance attached to the self which arises immediately upon adversity. We think "I should not have to experience troubles." Upon encountering a situation which requires us to change and adapt, we cling to the only permanent element in our universe: our self-sense. But all we accomplish with this reaction is to create a gap between our perceptions and actual mechanics of our problem.

Usually we think that to remove a problem we must fight against it or control it in some manner. This reinforces and entrenches our problem. If we cannot accept our problem, how can we change or solve it? When we stop blaming or becoming discouraged when we encounter a problem, we begin to look inward. It's here that we discover the actual substance of our problem. Once we're able to accept this insight, to stop blaming ourselves or others, there comes a certain levity of heart which is able to manage difficulty with ease.

If we learn to have patience with difficulty, we begin to develop a tremendous mind of empathy with others. When we learn to pacify our difficulty through acceptance, the problems of others solicit our understanding. We judge others and scold them because we are not able to have patience with our own shortcomings.

Our problems can be treated as objects which propell us toward happiness if we do not resist them or encounter them with frustration. By relaxing the emphasis on ourselves and our experience of difficulty, there comes a relaxation of heart which allows us to work with and learn from adversity. This way, be begin to understand others, and feel more comfortable relating to them.

If this technique can be gradually implemented to greater and greater scopes, we will find that letting go of ourselves absolutely and completely brings about a total cessation of suffering, and the reuinification of ourselves with our basic essence of great and uninhibited bliss.


--------------------


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineZenGecko
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: letting go of "letting go"... [Re: Ped]
    #2139096 - 11/27/03 01:05 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Some fears serve the practical purpose of keeping us away from danger, thus likely prolonging our life, but rational thought can also do that. I know if i walk in front of a speeding bus i'll likely die, i dont need the fear of getting hit by a speeding bus to prevent me from doing it. The fear of the unknown likely serves a similar purpose, but i would rather confront life directly face my fear, and get over it then be subject to it. I would rather die tomorrow truely unafraid then live 75 more years and be terrified at the prospect of my death, or have any kind of fear. As it is now i'm somewhere between those two states.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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