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Offlinesolidox
sir

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Romania
Last seen: 2 years, 3 days
how wrong is killing?
    #1521533 - 05/05/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was wandering if killing somebody else really is that wrong. Because all the arguments that make murder the worst thing you can do, seem "un-natural" to me. How can it not be "GOD's will"? How can you "disrupt the karma"? We are "hunter-gatherers" by nature, so how can we not kill? Killing other animals is that different? Philosophically speaking, of course. Or, killing another man by accident makes it more god's will, or less karma disruptive? Or are these arguments BS meant for keeping people from killing each other like psychos?

The same goes for suicide. Are we ALL really supposed to die of old age, or struck by lightning, or other weather conditions, so we can say this is "god's will"? Is it that wrong to choose your own death?


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: solidox]
    #1521612 - 05/05/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think this question is one of the reasons why Buddha said "life is suffering." All life-forms on our planet, with the exception of some algae, live on other life-forms, or at least depend on dead stuff that was alive before. It's no use trying to avoid killing, because the continuation of life depends on it. This may sound like a depressing nightmare if you think about it the wrong way, but it doesn't have to be. The solution is to let go of all attachments to individual life-forms, while still trying to keep as much as possible of the biosphere alive. That includes humans of course, and in particular the human that you control yourself.


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OfflineOracle Of Delphi
I, Phantom
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Registered: 06/23/02
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: solidox]
    #1521620 - 05/05/03 01:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The answer is B.


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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1521633 - 05/05/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Killing can be justified, though usually when one human kills another, it is not.

Killing for survival is a given. Life does feed on life. But killing for pleasure, for game, for convenience or personal gain is wrong. Who defines that rule? It's simply universal law, not defined by any entity necessarily. Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, and towards which direction we should be growing. Towards love, light, compassion, and understanding, which does not include killing somebody becasue they owe you a lot of money, or because they boned your girlfriend :smile:



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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1521655 - 05/05/03 01:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Who defines that rule? It's simply universal law, not defined by any entity necessarily. Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, and towards which direction we should be growing.

it simply amazes me that governments can blatanly disregard a universal law, and we as humans accept it as morally justified. if its ok for them, then, why not for us?


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1521688 - 05/05/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

wait, what universal law are we talking about, and how do governments blatantly disregard it?


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OfflineAlobar
A Bucket of Lard

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 322
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1521696 - 05/05/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps it is because governmental, corporate, and religious institutions shun honesty, favoring control and power, which are only upheld by continuous lying and deception. You can lie to God but not to the Devil? All forms of control are funded by the Devil, the Controller, whereas any spirit who is free and unencumbered (and thus able to differentiate between right and wrong) is favored in God's light (call it God or what you will). Killing as the product of the institution is only furthering the Devil's cause, whereas honesty and compassion are qualities of Godliness. What side is morality on? I suppose it would be our side, and it is up to us to either wield our sense of morality in a favorable light, or succumb to the reptilian satisfaction of decadence and murder.
Or something like that.


Edited by Alobar (05/06/03 10:32 AM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1521739 - 05/05/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

LoOnEr, are you thinking about capital punishment or wartime killing, or both?
I can understand killing of humans in self-defense if you are under attack, but only if it is the last possible resort in order to avoid certain massacre.

But I can never understand capital punishment. It has nothing to do with self-defense. I live in a country where we don't put murderers to death, and I don't think we're much worse off than the countries where they do.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1521863 - 05/05/03 02:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

LoOnEr, are you thinking about capital punishment or wartime killing, or both?

both

I can understand killing of humans in self-defense if you are under attack, but only if it is the last possible resort in order to avoid certain massacre.

each side believes it's self-defense. so, who is the killer and who is the defender?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522066 - 05/05/03 04:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

each side believes it's self-defense. so, who is the killer and who is the defender?




Assuming that both are killers, I suppose you mean "who is the attacker and who is the defender". And the answer to that is often not obvious. But it's a fact of life that if you don't defend your own existance against those who wish to extinguish it, you will perish. So the life that prevails will consist of those who put up defenses against predators, and that includes violent defenses sometimes.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1522178 - 05/05/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

But it's a fact of life that if you don't defend your own existance against those who wish to extinguish it, you will perish.

that is the argument that gov'ts use to justify war. but, BOTH sides say the same thing...whether they are the attackers (ex. US invasion of iraq) or the defenders (ex. france defending against germany). even germany told its people that ww2 was for self defense. so if its all for self-defense, what would happen if we stopped "defending" ourselves?


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522183 - 05/05/03 05:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You are postulating the impossible.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522186 - 05/05/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How is he postulating the impossible?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: bert]
    #1522200 - 05/05/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When inverted what he is saying is "what if we all stopped attacking one another?"

The answer is obvious but it is only hypothetical.

Crime would vanish but since that has never happened I think we can safely assume it won't.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522220 - 05/05/03 05:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's no more impossible than claiming the existence of God. Anyways, I think he's going somewhere with this. At least I hope he's got the next step planned out.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522225 - 05/05/03 05:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

it won't with that outlook.

reason may be the only thing to save humanity.

When inverted what he is saying is "what if we all stopped attacking one another?"

if we can see the error in our thinking, why not try to correct it? the hard part is the realization...after that, follow what you believe.


Edited by Anonymous (05/05/03 05:20 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522443 - 05/05/03 06:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I see inconsistency here.

Now what were you saying about defending and attacking others?


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522489 - 05/05/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

and here.

sorry loOnEr! haha...

it'd be nice if there was no violence, but until EVERY SINGLE LIVING PERSON is above the use of force, it will be with us.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522491 - 05/05/03 06:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

lol

such an advocate for the "be nice" policy, yet you make personnal attacks when you can't formulate an argument...digging into OTD for help are you?

oh and for the record... i fight for sport...2 individuals consenting to fight, its called MMA or NHB..here is a link if your interested... www.sherdog.com, since you like to bring old stuff up, i NEVER look for street fights and i would RUN if i had the chance, nevermind the ones i stopped between people before they have started.

respect for you just went down the drain...have a nice day.


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Anonymous

Re: how wrong is killing? [Re: ]
    #1522500 - 05/05/03 06:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i already spoke about this here..

let me remind you i was attacked while i was in a car, a drunk man tried to punch the window out and tear me from car....

"i had a human life in my hands before, i could have killed him if i wanted too? that feeling is one of the greatest i've ever had."

did i kill anyone? i was acting on self-defense. i was attacked, the fight went on for about 20 minutes, until i was able to choke him and get him off of me. after it was over, whether it was the adrenaline or the feeling of POWER, it WAS the greatest feeling i've ever had. this has nothing to do with my beliefs.



link to that thread..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum11&Number=1486442&Forum=Forum11&Words=anarchy&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1month&Main=1485214&Search=true#Post1486442




Edited by Anonymous (05/05/03 06:49 PM)


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