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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Is killing wrong?
    #1443677 - 04/09/03 06:02 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

To kill or not to kill, that is the question.

Do you think it is wrong to kill humans?

If yes, then how come it's ok to mass murder animals?

"Because we need food"

If you need food get off you lazy arse, go to the woods and start hunting.

"But we have no woods where i live"

Yeah, you think? There was probably a tree where you sitting right now with a tasty fazan sitting on it.

My point is, THAT i's natural, that's survival of the fittest.

Cruelty to animals the way they do it at slaughter houses is just as wrong as pointing a gun at your head and sparying walls with your brain.



Part 2.

Would it be wrong to kill according to Crowleys law?

I like the way he phrased it:
"Man has the right to live by his own law-

to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.

Man has the right to eat what he will:

to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.

Man has the right to think what he will:

to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.

Man has the right to love as he will:-

take your fill and will of love as ye will,
when, where, and with whom ye will."

Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
"

And finally

I'm wondering would it be wrong to kill "some" humans and make myself immortal?

For all i know that would be equvivalent to eating at mcdonalds for a year. At least in my understanding.


--------------------


Edited by cleaner (04/09/03 06:05 PM)


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OfflineCherk
Fashionable
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Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 45,731
Loc: International
Last seen: 6 months, 6 days
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1443698 - 04/09/03 06:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Humans are the only animals that kill for pleasure.


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Cherk]
    #1443708 - 04/09/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That's not pleasure, that's feeding their hungry egos


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1444322 - 04/09/03 09:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think it's right to kill a human. Even in war. Even in self defense.

I also don't eat meat.


--------------------
Namaste.


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Offlineshaggy101
Male

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Cherk]
    #1444452 - 04/09/03 10:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That is not right at all...I have seen many animals kill for many reasons other than food and survival, domesticated and wild.hell i have even seen mass murdering animals.
humans have a extremely complex mind.. I dont know, in one way that could mean that we could develope a killing for a non-instictual reason~ developed from outside forces and the complex constant inner dialogue..which from the presecurs would be alien to non human life..yet there are many highly intelligent animals that to some extent would have the same.

The other possibility is that indeed most human murders our a highly evolved-yet not understood-instinct,
without going in to too much detail: main factors bieng social interactions( alpha male female..ect.. ) sexual interactions, self image, and dealing with the cursed gift of the mind..concluding to a highly evolved semi-intelligent instinct, like a dualistic crash of intelligence and instinct..maybe triism? the logical mind meets the emotional spririt,/ is filterd thru the physical self and concludes in ego..how about infinism?..

Is it ok to kill a human being? there are many ways to look at that..what does ok mean anyway? that it is rational? that it is not fundamentaly against the way that serves us..the way we call good?
isnt it simply a subjective question to each individual and scenario? was that some kinda answer? can I use another question mark?.........hmmm I guess so.

It is never right for me to kill.
right being me, I , the question/the answer.


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Offlineshaggy101
Male

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1444460 - 04/09/03 10:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

is your anti killing philosophy the main reason you dont eat meat?


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: shaggy101]
    #1444469 - 04/09/03 10:13 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

it is wrong to kill white people... not the rest though, they're all fair game.


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Offlineshaggy101
Male

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1444481 - 04/09/03 10:15 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)


Quote:

And finally

I'm wondering would it be wrong to kill "some" humans and make myself immortal?






while I cant say if its right or wrong, I can say the ends will not justify the means, and with that broken mindset you would never truelly achieve :laugh:


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1444487 - 04/09/03 10:16 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing wrong with killing someone, just the chemical process in your brain that follows, throwing one into a deep state of depression, unless you're fucking mad. If we could take away a couple chemical processes it would be ok.


--------------------



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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1444725 - 04/09/03 11:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

then we could march people into blenders when they didnt do their job!

i dont think its ever right to kill anyone. it might not be "wrong" in some instances, but i dont ever see it as "right" or even justifiable. sometimes shit happens and people are crazy and you have to realize that you are going to die in 10 seconds by some crazed asshole, or you can live and try to learn.

i think the only time when we should even have to worry about that is when our direct life is in danger, someone coming up to you going to kill you, some nasty diseased humans that want to eat your flesh or rob you or some shit. if that were to happen, im sure you wouldnt be in a ooo lets get some flowers state either way, and your natural instinct to surivive would kick in.

just for the sake of putting some things together, ^ thats why i dont think its wrong to kill "lower" animals for food. i think we should eat fish though, maybe a few land animals but not really, were designed so i hear to eat and process the nutrients of seafood. we die if we dont get the necessary enzymes. my zero cents hence. the idea behind kosher foods though seems like a good principle imo.

just to say, when i have ever got in any fight. i dont really think about anything but that, i just think about the fight, i seriously must turn into the primal state. i wouldnt kill unless it was necessary though, and i know how fast i would react seeing a crazed killer or walking dead coming my way. i just wouldnt think twice about it. thats how we are still stuck in that cycle. humans themselves have now turned into wild animals, we are in the Industrial Technological "civilized" jungle. where twisted fiends seek trecherous ends to justify their mean s.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineMacey Howard
Formally MOE HOWARD
Female

Registered: 07/03/99
Posts: 14,165
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 20 days
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1444748 - 04/09/03 11:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

let me tell you what I was told when I was in desert storm.

In combat.. when you shoot or defend and the enemies die.. that is a killing.

When it is peace time and you go off and shoot someone.. that is a murder..

i still think that all deprivation of life is no good... that is the definition of killing. deprive of life.

anyways


--------------------
Hugs and Kisses!


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1444763 - 04/09/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think it is wrong to kill humans?

If yes, then how come it's ok to mass murder animals?


So do you really think that killing people is the same as killing animals?


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Anonymous

Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Macey Howard]
    #1445289 - 04/10/03 01:50 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Nice to see you in here Moe!  :laugh:


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OfflineMacey Howard
Formally MOE HOWARD
Female

Registered: 07/03/99
Posts: 14,165
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 20 days
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: ]
    #1445835 - 04/10/03 08:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

hello friend !


--------------------
Hugs and Kisses!


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Anonymous

Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1445839 - 04/10/03 08:35 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What's the difference between a human and an ant? An ant has just as much a right to live as you or I. Just because we seemingly have a greater effect on the world does not mean we're necessarily more important. It's a good habit to have a respect for all life, no matter how "insignificant" to us.


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Anonymous

Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Macey Howard]
    #1446053 - 04/10/03 11:18 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

My new title is Fiend......

Muhahahaha  :cool:


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InvisibleNariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: ]
    #1446078 - 04/10/03 11:34 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The other night on NBC Fear Factor they had a blender full of hundreds of meal worms and madasgascar cockroaches. They then blended them all up into a milk shake type deal and made the contestants drink it if they missed a basketball shot.

The worms and stuff were alive and everyone just acted like it was gross, not a bad thing.

Comlete disregard for those organisms


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineWaldarbeiter
can you eat it?

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 189
Loc: woods of lower bavaria
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1446080 - 04/10/03 11:35 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

My point is, THAT i's natural, that's survival of the fittest

I believe that the survival of the most  intelligent is powered by evolution.
If we go kill each other, our race will vanish from this planet...
However our self destruction forces our human memes to develop quicker...this may be the only thing that stops mankind from selfdestructon.
One of this memes is that we shouldn't kill each other....
blah blah... :cool:
 


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Macey Howard]
    #1446094 - 04/10/03 11:46 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That was a joke, BTW. The only instance where killing is justifiable is in times of war or in defense, I am 100% against death penalty(state sponsered murder) and all that bullshit.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 12 days
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1446318 - 04/10/03 01:26 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

It all depends. Right and wrong are in the eye of the beholder.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: shaggy101]
    #1449614 - 04/11/03 02:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

No. If I needed food, I would kill an animal and eat it.
I have more than enough food than I need, though, without killing any animals. I don't eat meat for a lot of different reasons, all of them having to do with the way that our animals are raised in this country. It's bad for the environment, it is bad for our health, and it is TORTURE for the animals.

Killing is wrong. And I disagree with Moe on there being a difference between killing and murder. That's just bull patties!

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleLallafa
p_g monocle
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Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
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Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1449821 - 04/11/03 03:04 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

right/wrong??

we all know, deep down, in that pit, pulsating near the bottom of your empty spirit, that there is no such thing as right and wrong

i dont think killing people is cool
but if you are gonna kill someone, you might as well try and kill them all


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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Offlineshaggy101
Male

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1,816
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1454213 - 04/13/03 05:24 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Cool. Thats part of the reason I am a vegetarian and becoming a vegean, although I wont conform to the title :smirk:

My main reason is health..Holy shiznit the current food market fucks you up..as I see the tobacco boys get hit hard I cant help think welll  You know there is one industry that Kills more.
Heart Diasease kills more than anything in america( or close ) and is mostly due to the foods we consume..
I dont know think about the amounts of fats and processed sugar you eat daily and stuff.
I am not here to convince anyone, learn for yourselves :laugh:

Ps. Does anyone know what the hell I was talking about in that first post, I tend to mumble and rant online as much as I do outside :crazy:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1454796 - 04/13/03 04:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Right or wrong are subjective terms with no objective meaning. I believe in the food chain, and I believe that we have just as much right as any other animal to kill for food. If a shark were to eat a person, I wouldn't judge the shark, because it's just trying to eat. I believe that some of the practices of the meat industry are a bit cruel, but I don't believe that eating meat is, in and of itself, wrong. In fact, if I had to, I can honestly say that I would probably resort to cannibalism.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Murex]
    #1454845 - 04/13/03 05:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I have no problem killing someone who would kill me.
Obviously killing people randomly is wrong and you shouldn't even contemplate it.
But I'd rather be shooting than receiving. Once you get shot, you're done, all your future... erased. At least if you shot the person in self defense you have a future ahead of you. Love life, embrace it.

Cheers,
daba


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: daba]
    #1454938 - 04/13/03 06:00 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

........then in your eyes, you believe that you are right.

(Right and wrong are in the eye of the beholder)


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinedomite
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Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Murex]
    #1455642 - 04/13/03 11:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

you see, this thing you say about killing in war is okay...

You put yourself in that position by enlisting. Now, I am not going to shit on you for fighting for what you belive in. But, keep in mind, you are putting yourself in a position where you are killing men women and childeren, often, if not always, for someone else's Money. I personally would avoid killing, and take it far enough to say that i would rather die than kill, yet if I was being attaked, i would kill my assialent for my own safety. So in this respect, I am a hypocrite. Also, I eat meat. so I am a huge hypocrtie. But whatever, all philosophies have some hypocrisy, right?

peace.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 12 days
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: domite]
    #1455883 - 04/14/03 01:18 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I personally wouldn't kill innocent people. In wars, both sides believe that their side is right.

And eating meat doesn't make you a murderer.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (04/14/03 01:20 AM)


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OfflineJenherself
Just anotherchick

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Alberta, Canada in a box
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: Murex]
    #1464753 - 04/16/03 07:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What about euthanasia (assisted suicide)? I'm not talking about just helping your buddy out either, I'm talking about people on their death beds...and that kinda stuff...people who don't have a chance at survival or people who are mentally ill and can't lead a 'normal' life like the rest of us who can walk, talk, feed ourselves and wash ourselves...or what about abortion?

I believe in 'eye for an eye' if someone commits an act of murder against another human being I feel the death penalty should be enforced upon them.

Killing animals for food I agree with. Its part of the chain...yes its heartless and cruel, but I'm sorry it tastes good and keeps you healthy. Killing animals for they fur is wrong. Or for they're teeth or for they're blubber to make lipstick sickens me.

Although, there is a reason for murder and suicide in the world and its simple this...population control...as sick and as twisted as that may be, it is true.


--------------------
TO EACH THEIR OWN
****JENNY****


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1475574 - 04/20/03 04:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

If nobody dies then the world will become overpopulated faster


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinemr freedom
enthusiast
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 232
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Is killing wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1476691 - 04/20/03 05:03 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Killing humans is perfectly acceptable provided you are within a moral framework that makes it accpetable for YOU. Steve would be happy to be killed, gutted and if I'm not mistaken, served up with a nice salad; I would not be so inclined.

I think my life has value of significant measure and would defend it by killing another. I also eat meat and acknowledge that our methods of farming animals could be done better. I also hunt so that I know that I KILL to eat. This doesn't make me a hardass or a mean person. I do this because I respect that I kill to live; nothing more, nothing less.

If you wish to not defend yourself I have no problem with that. If you wish to not eat meat I have no problem with that either. This is YOUR moral system; not mine.

Of course if my son, daughter, neighbor or family has to go to war to protect the shores of this nation and by extension YOU. Then I FULLY expect you to take your own life on the spot. If you do not then you are acting contrary to your own moral principles to allow someone else to DIE so that YOU may live.


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