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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1671563 - 06/29/03 03:43 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Their antenae are nothing but nerv endings. You expect me to believe that when you tear off a leg, they feel nothing? Its really dumb to say they cant feel, that roach I just smashed 30% of ran away in pain and fear.


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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1671638 - 06/29/03 04:28 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I know ants can feel pain the same way I know snakes feel pain. They writhe in pain when stuck with a needle. The expression might not be visible to you, but I dont think you're looking very hard : P


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
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Registered: 12/11/02
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Loc: Ontario
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: Gixxer_boy]
    #1671721 - 06/29/03 05:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

:frown: i know what you mean...hah i always feel bad for killing bugs and stuff too 


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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Invisiblebandaid
clever title

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: soylent_green]
    #1671945 - 06/29/03 07:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Whats the point of being a vegetarian?. Please someone tell me I really really want to know! :wink: I hope a vegan answers this plz oh plz!



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OfflineGixxer_boy
Rice Burner

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 149
Loc: Mass
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: bandaid]
    #1671949 - 06/29/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I stopped eating meat for about a year because I did not think it was right to kill fully conscious mammals in great masses to feed people. It's pretty simple I guess. Oh, by the way, while I was the last few new posts an ant crawled between my toes, which made me flinch and crush it.

"Their antenae are nothing but nerv endings. You expect me to believe that when you tear off a leg, they feel nothing? Its really dumb to say they cant feel, that roach I just smashed 30% of ran away in pain and fear. "

Ants have no nerve endings in there exoskeleton. They have 2 brains, eye-like organs, and eardrums. There antenae are the only way to can feel things. They have no sense of pain. That a creature could run off with 30% of its body destroyed and continue to function is proof enough that it doesn't have any sense of pain. Species that do feel pain go into shock when receiving such painful injuries.


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"Why do women have breasts?"
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"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin


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Invisiblebandaid
clever title

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: Gixxer_boy]
    #1671958 - 06/29/03 07:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I really miss the simplicity, could be that Im just dumb, but could you explain why its wrong to kill animals for food? and why its ok to kill not-so-conscious beings?.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: bandaid]
    #1672072 - 06/29/03 09:01 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I have been a vegiterian for 8 years and its just wrong to kill an animal for food. There is plenty of other sources for the human species why else are our teeth not sharp like other preditors meat eaters.
Not forgetting the unkown amounts of chemicles and other stuff that is fed and injected in to the animals. Which is polluting the food chain anyway.

Then there is viruses and other shit that is crossing over the species barrier. Natures way of telling us somthing ?

Insects though especialy ants act on the hive mentality which are all linked though a chemicle like mini internet. Which means they are all extensions of the queen which makes them just drones. Its almost like natures robots.







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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Invisiblebandaid
clever title

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: EvilGir]
    #1672094 - 06/29/03 09:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ya I keep hearing "its just wrong" but Id like if one of you could explain it.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 18 years, 22 days
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: bandaid]
    #1672146 - 06/29/03 09:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm vegetarian because I believe it is a healthier way to live. I would raise my own animals and eat them if I had land and time because I like meat. But I don't like what the industrialized process does to the animals, and I believe that the industrialized meat and other animal products are full of things which really aren't that healthy to eat (hormones, bacteria, preservatives, etc). .

That said, I don't get why people believe it is wrong to kill animals, but are quite happy to eat vegetables. Don't plants have consciousness? If you attach an EEG meter to a plant's leaves, and burn it once, you'll get a big pulse through the meter. After that even lighting a match next to it without burning it is enough to get a response. There's some kind of basic aversion to pain, which in itself boils down to an aversion to disruption of the nervous system.

IMO by living we are harming other creatures, and causing an end to other life, on a constant basis. We can either accept this and move on, or stay locked in a dark room (don't want to risk burning those moths!) and starve to death.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1672169 - 06/29/03 09:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)


"I really miss the simplicity, could be that Im just dumb, but could you explain why its wrong to kill animals for food? and why its ok to kill not-so-conscious beings?."

i dont think the act of killing a animal is bad, but being completely disconnected from the process, and letting a faceless industry deconstruct industry-raised animals for you on a mass scale is kind of gross. and anyways, red meat is totally unhealthy, as is any over-consuption of mammal meat.


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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 3,071
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: bandaid]
    #1672175 - 06/29/03 09:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ants are beautiful. They wordlessly gather around pieces of food and carry it off. How many animals work together like that?!

I found a bunch of PETA websites, and This website (which I decided is the best source I visited sadly enough) in my favor, and none in favor of the idea that insects are incapable of feeling pain :P Germany even seems to have a law protecting ants like dogs and cats. You have to get permits to move the ant pile into the woodlands :P


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 966
Loc: The City
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1672236 - 06/29/03 10:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Its very easy to violate something's (or someone's) rights if they can't communicate their displeasure of it to you in a way that you understand.

I don't kill insects for no reason, but if theres some wasps or something threatening my person, then I'll decimate their asses without hesitating.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1672254 - 06/29/03 10:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ok sorry I should have explained things better but I was slight tripping.  :wink:

A fully consciousness being should have equal rights to any human being. Becuase as a species we should be trying to transcend beyond our animal instincts for eating meat and causing suffering to that animal.

Quote:

That said, I don't get why people believe it is wrong to kill animals, but are quite happy to eat vegetables. Don't plants have  consciousness ? 




True but they don't have the same type of consciousness as a animal. Do vegetables scream at night when there friends are being cooked ? Thats like saying a microbe has the same type of consciousness as a human being.

Also why would we think killing a cow is ok for food but most of us would probably not be to impressed with Dolphin meat and why arnt cat or dogs processed as food in the western world.  I think we put diffrent standars on diffrent beings just cos a cow aint soft or cuddley we make it food.

In the end the path to Nirvana is by not eatin meat. :nonono: :wink:


     


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OfflineGixxer_boy
Rice Burner

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 149
Loc: Mass
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1672271 - 06/29/03 10:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I am speaking about biology. They're nervous systems are not advanced enough to feel pain. Now, what they actually feel, like fear, happiness, etc. I don't think anyone could understand.

As for not eating meat, I stopped but I just craved meat to much to keep it up. Maybe I'll be a vegetarian later on in life, but as it is now I have no way to have a healthy well balanced diet without meat. I think killing any type of animal is wrong, but people still do it. I'm not saying I kill every ant I see because they are annoying, but if I step on one I'm not gonna cry about it. I think hunting is gross and wrong. Theres already so much meat going around now, why kill innocent deers or whatever cause you enjoy killing things? I also think slaughter houses are disgusting and wrong, but don't see any way they could be stopped in the near future. I am against any killing, but I guess I believe in the food chain in some ways. I think the life of a mammal is worth more than all the bugs in world, while a humans life is worth more than a dogs or a horses, but that doesn't mean any lives should be overlooked.


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"Why do women have breasts?"
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"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 966
Loc: The City
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: EvilGir]
    #1672277 - 06/29/03 10:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

"I think we put diffrent standars on diffrent beings"

Exactly. Then why don't you consider the plant consciousness (whatever that is) as deserving of life as the animal consciousness? Like I said in a post earlier, its very easy to mistreat something that can't communicate its pain. Does that pain not exist because it can't be communicated? Not in your subjective reality, of course.

I think compassion is the key to the treatment of animals, not some uber-ideal like "The path to Nirvana is by not eating meat". I would never kill an animal just for the sack of the act, but I will eat meat in order to sustain my body. Animals eat the food that they are naturally inclined to eat, and I, am an animal. Ya dig? Peace.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: chunder]
    #1672344 - 06/29/03 10:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I think the life of a mammal is worth more than all the bugs in world, while a humans life is worth more than a dogs or a horses




But still how many people risk there lifes to save their pets ?



But with all our mordern technology there is now enough nutrition in vegetarian foods without the need to kill.  Also doesn't meat causes agression ect which cant be to good to transcend.

Oh well guess in the end its just personnel choice, I guess without free will where would we be ? Peace

I am now of to bed cos  its getting  late and its about 4am .  :smile:
   


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OfflineGixxer_boy
Rice Burner

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 149
Loc: Mass
Last seen: 18 years, 21 days
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: EvilGir]
    #1672405 - 06/29/03 11:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I know people who have spent thousands of dollars they didn't have to give there pets surgery. Some people will sacrifice there well-being for animals, some won't. As for the meat thing, yeah, I agree with you. I don't think anyone should eat meat, but I only do it because I would have to change not eat meat.


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"Why do women have breasts?"
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"So you can have something to look at when you're talking to them!" -Peter Griffin


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Invisiblebandaid
clever title

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: EvilGir]
    #1672411 - 06/29/03 11:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Arent their laws governing cruelty to the killings of animals in slaughter houses?. If they are killed instantly or killed with some type of gas that makes them euphoric it can be argued that they have a much better life, constant food and not having to die a more painfull death in the wild.

If you ask me Id prefer to be safely stuffed in a cage with constant euphoric drugs and given an easy death instead of having to worry about disease related deaths ect. I dont share the same "meaning" that most people do in life, I see meaning soley as the purpose to make you feel emotionaly good, only when you start to loose that you go back into the scientific meaning of things to tackle the next reason for your suffering, call me crazy thats just me.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: chunder]
    #1672795 - 06/30/03 02:14 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's much better to eat the bodies of dead animals than to just let them rot away, or to not allow animals to exist at all. I love animals, both in the wild, in a barnyard, and on my dinner plate.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Regret for killing household pests : ( [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1672896 - 06/30/03 03:44 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

jezu: True but they don't have the same type of consciousness as a animal. Do vegetables scream at night when there friends are being cooked ?

id like to see a list of how many insects have the ablity to scream.


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