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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
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Cigarette's Illegal?
    #1482221 - 04/22/03 01:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hey, just bored here reading about the smoking ban in NYC and was wondering peoples thoughts on this. I'm torn, because I really do despise cigarettes and think they're a terrible drug, but on the other hand, I bitch about the illegality of pot. Should they be illegal? I mean, they do (unlike Marijuana) kill tens of thousands of people every year, right? Get back to me on this.

P.S. Someone PM me and tell me what the hell these mushies that now show up under my name when I post are? Please? I'm afraid......


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineneuro
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Registered: 08/11/99
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482432 - 04/22/03 02:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

the mushrooms are a rating from other users about you.


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482451 - 04/22/03 03:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

According to the standards by which the DEA judges other drugs tobacco should be illegal. We can thank the tobacco lobbiests for keeping it legal.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1482469 - 04/22/03 03:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"We can thank the tobacco lobbiests for keeping it legal."

There has never been an organized attempt by anyone with any political power whatsoever to make cigarettes illegal. Tobacco is legal because it's been around a very long time and a very large segment of our population smokes. It has little to do with "big tobacco" lobbyists.


Edited by OOOO (04/22/03 03:19 PM)


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482473 - 04/22/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This law is unjust.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482475 - 04/22/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

People should be able to do what they want.



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Mp3 of the month: Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1482481 - 04/22/03 03:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yep ^


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: OOOO]
    #1482498 - 04/22/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Bullshit. There have been a few politicians that have spoken out about it. I am way too lazy at this point in the day to do some searching. It has realized for a good while that tobacoo should be classified as a schedule I drug.

Well hell, I'll throw one in.

http://ali.apple.com/ali_media/Users/132/files/others/TobBill.pdf

There have been more to be sure.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1482517 - 04/22/03 03:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

According to that link, tobacco is now illegal in the United States, and has been since the '80's? Am I missing something?


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482532 - 04/22/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Should they be illegal? 




and create a larger black market...  :mad:

It should be an individuals choice if they want to inhale carcinogens into their body just as it should be an individuals choice to consume psilocybin containing mushrooms or smoke cannabis. 


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: OOOO]
    #1482535 - 04/22/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Apparently. :smirk:

If you think that tobacco lobbyists have had nothing to do with keeping tobacco legal then you are sadly mistaken. I'm not going to debate this issue with you though, hardly worth the time or effort.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineyelimS
bohem

Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482605 - 04/22/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, I don't think it's so wrong to bitch about pot being illegal while encouraging smoke bans. Even if pot is legal, you don't have to toke up in front of non-smokers. That's bad to their health, and laws against that, I've no problem with. I quite like to avoid cigarette smoke, and if someone complains about me smoking J's, I'd put it out.


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1482630 - 04/22/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That link is from an Apple (the computer company) website. I'm not sure what it's doing there, but I could find no mention of the bill anywhere else, nor any other tobacco criminalization bills. I don't think that it's at all credible.

(Also note that it's talking about a bill introduced in 1986, and then signed by President G. W. Bush., who took office in 1989).


Edited by OOOO (04/22/03 10:01 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,014
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1482975 - 04/22/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Smoking in public places should be something smokers are smart enough not to do on their own. Since (sadly) many are too stupid to be courteous, it should be banned in ALL public places. People can smoke if they want, I shouldn't have to if I choose not to.

Also, people who throw butts out their window, onto the ground, or who empty their car ashtrays onto the ground should be severely beaten and then shot.

Perhaps a one dollar (or maybe five) per butt deposit fee would put an end to assholes flinging butts around.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/22/03 05:29 PM)


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1483434 - 04/22/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Smoking in public places should be something smokers are smart enough not to do on their own. Since (sadly) many are too stupid to be courteous, it should be banned in ALL public places. People can smoke if they want, I shouldn't have to if I choose not to.

Also, people who throw butts out their window, onto the ground, or who empty their car ashtrays onto the ground should be severely beaten and then shot.

Perhaps a one dollar (or maybe five) per butt deposit fee would put an end to assholes flinging butts around.




hahahahaaahahaha.

Libertarian my ass. Fascist is more like it.

I can understand banning smoking in restaurants, but banning it in bars is fucking ridiculous. If you don't like it, don't patronize that establishment. You have a choice in the matter. By banning smoking, you're simply taking away somebody else's choice. There will be other business owners who have their own non-smoking policies and you can patronize them if you like. Having the government impose a ban on every single business can't be justified on any grounds.

I love it when people who bitch at liberals for supporting "big government" turn around and support draconian, quasi-fascist measures for something THEY want to see happen.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1483439 - 04/22/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Banning it in restraunts is wrong too. If you don't like smoke go to places that don't allow it. If enough people do that then more restraunts will not allow smoking. Asking for the government to make yet another business regulation is just stupid when a free market can do the job.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1483443 - 04/22/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yes.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1483473 - 04/22/03 08:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't say I support banning it in restaurants, simply that I could understand possible justifications for it. In all cases I agree it should be up to the business owner.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Cigarette's Illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1483573 - 04/22/03 08:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

it should be banned in ALL public places.




Really? So, are you suggesting that if I own an establishment, a restaurant or bar maybe a car dealer, etc., that I should forbid people from smoking? Hummm, in essence then aren't I becoming a de facto government agent since I am made to enforce laws? What about my rights to my private property? Ooooo, I have an idea! Why not let the people decide if they want to come to my establishment. If I allow smoking then so be it. You have a choice; do you want to come to my place if I allow smoking or would you prefer to go to an establishment that prohibits smoking?

Freedom of choice, it could be such a wonderful thing.


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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