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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
#6332065 - 12/04/06 03:20 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
He isn't against immigration. He is against illegal immigrants who are here sponging off our society.
This brings up a good point? When did "illegal aliens" turn into "illegal immigrants"? In my book, an immigrant is legal by definition while an alien is illegal by definition. It is a lot smaller of a step from illegal immigrant to legal immigrant than it is from illegal alien to legal immigrant.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Seuss]
#6333139 - 12/04/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess you havent heard the newest one.
"undocumented citizen"
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Seuss]
#6333148 - 12/04/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I heard some lady on Lou Dobbs say something along the lines of, "Stop calling them illegal aliens, they're not from another planet or something. They're human beings." I literally laughed for about ten minutes.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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I saw that, that woman could not make any decent arguments, so she was spouting nonsense. They always scream racist when they are out of arguments.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
#6333837 - 12/04/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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What do we do about all of the Diseases that they carry into the USA.The ones that where gone ,that are comeing back now.
-------------------- Fair is Fair
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Brainiac]
#6333843 - 12/04/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Immigration and Disease: It's Enough to Make You Sick Written by Robert Klein Engler Friday, November 21, 2003
Uncontrolled and illegal immigration to the United States causes many problems for the nation. Just the tax revenues spent on welfare programs, education, health care, and housing for illegal immigrants is enough to make one question our immigration policies. Now, we can add another problem and cost associated with illegal immigration: illegal immigrants can make you sick.
According to an article at newsobserver.com and other news sources, a deadly Pennsylvania hepatitis outbreak has spread panic among many residents of the area. ''More than 500 people got sick and three have died from this hepatitis outbreak.'' Charles Sheehan, writing for the Associated Press, claims that ''The nation's biggest known outbreak of hepatitis A is causing such a panic that people are lining up by the thousands for antibody shots and no longer eating out.''
Health investigators are looking into whether contaminated produce--perhaps scallions from Mexico--may have caused the outbreak at the Chi Chi's restaurant in the Beaver Valley Mall, about 25 miles northwest of Pittsburgh. ''We're very concerned. It's very serious and we've sent a team of people out there to assist,'' said CDC spokesman David Daigle.
According to yet another article on station WPIX Pittsburgh's web site, ''In light of the hepatitis A outbreak from a Center Township restaurant, Chi-Chi's has pulled green onions from its menu nationwide as a precaution. As far as the investigation into the Chi-Chi's outbreak, the virus has been identified as the 'Mexican Strain.' '' Health officials reported, ''Workers may have contaminated food by failure to follow basic hygiene in cleaning hands after using the bathroom.''
The U. S. is not alone in its fight against illegal immigration and disease. Illegal Chinese immigrants to Europe are bringing to that continent malaria. Even Thailand has problems with diseases brought in with immigrants from Burma. The biological clock is ticking and a world health crisis is looming. Because the U. S. suffers more immigration than any country in the world, our health problems are growing faster. Certainly, the potential for biological disaster has come to the notice of terrorists and Al Qaeda.
Although the out break of Hepatitis A in Pennsylvania is the largest in U. S. history, it is just the tip of the iceberg in so far as disease and immigration is concerned. Frosty Wooldridge in his many articles reports that, ''Thousands carry head lice, leprosy, tuberculosis, and hepatitis A, B, and C into the U. S. Tuberculosis, five years ago, was almost nonexistent in the USA. A school in Sebewaing, Michigan, reported 30 children and four teachers had tested positive for tuberculosis infections.''
Wooldridge goes on to add, ''In the past four years, 16,000 cases of multi drug resistant (MDR) TB, which was formerly endemic ONLY to Mexico, crossed over the borders inside the bodies of illegal aliens. These adults and their children have spread out across the country to work in fast foods and harvesting. Another outbreak occurred in Austin, Minnesota, where eight police officers tested positive for tuberculosis.'' A similar outbreak reportedly occurred in Portland, Maine where 28 tested positive for tuberculosis.
And the list gets even longer: ''Leprosy totaled 900 cases in the USA in the past 40 years. In the past three years, according to a report from the New York Times in February, 2003, leprosy has infected over 7,000 people in the United States. It was brought in by illegal immigrants from India, Brazil, Mexico, and the Caribbean. Leprosy spreads by infected illegal aliens working in fast food, dish washing and hotels."
Then there is Chagas Disease. This disease ''is brought directly from Mexico and Latin America where it has infected over 18,000,000 people. One can contract it by eating uncooked food contaminated with infected feces of the Vinchuca Bug. It crosses over the border in the bodies of an average of 2,200 illegal aliens daily.''
Disease transmission by immigration is not limited to just the states that border Mexico. As far north as Kentucky and Illinois, problems of disease and immigrants are to be found. A Kentucky state legislator blamed illegal Hispanic immigrants for spreading disease in Kentucky and draining the shelves of local food charities. Illegal immigrants whom Kentucky State Representative Fred Nesler described as ''mostly your Mexicans'' have caused problems in his Western Kentucky district. He said, ''Whenever they come into a community, those people bring quite a bit of disease with them.''
In northern Virginia, state health authorities announced that ''tuberculosis continues to rise'' and that ''immigration is fueling the spread.'' According to the Washington Post, this strain of TB is the drug resistant strain (Washington Post, March 18, 2002). The state Health Department released figures showing an increase of nearly 5 percent in TB cases in the state between 2000 and 2001, and 57 percent of the increase occurred in northern Virginia itself.
As the Washington Post explained, ''Health officials say the rise of TB ... is largely a consequence of the migration of people from parts of the world where the disease is common. It is thought that two-thirds of the cases of TB brought into the United States originated in just three countries: Mexico, the Philippines, and Vietnam.''
A study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform in the St. Louis Business Journal (August 20, 2003) reports that Missouri spends about $21.4 million a year and Illinois spends $484 million a year to educate school-aged illegal immigrants. The report goes on to state that, ''The money spent in Illinois is enough to supply healthcare to every person under the poverty line for two years or to supply financial aid to the nearly 34,000 college students denied it.''' Clearly, illegal immigration is lowering the standard of living of all American citizens.
Writing in the National Review, James R. Edwards cites the dramatic increase in diseases immigrants bring to the United States. He states, ''TB is especially prevalent in Mexicans....Mexican immigrants have an infection rate of 35.5 cases per 100,000, far above the native-born rate.'' Edwards then goes on to ask, ''Does America have the resolve to safeguard public health first, even at the risk of being politically incorrect? Do American taxpayers willingly accept the additional burden of the costs mass immigration places on the nation's healthcare system?''
The answer to Edwards' question is, ''No.'' It is obvious there is no desire or resolve to safeguard public health in either political party. Nor do the politicians want to do anything about illegal immigration, especially illegal immigration from Mexico. What is lacking here is a long term vision of what is good for the U. S. Instead, everyone is looking at short term political or economic gains.
A solution to the problems of illegal immigration probably will hurt some people in the short run. That is the pain that precedes a cure. Some families may be broken up and some decent, hardworking people sent back to a country that has no jobs for them. Nevertheless, in the long run, policies that deport illegal immigrants will benefit the U. S. These policies may even force Mexico, among other nations, to get their house in order. But because there is short term pain for a long term benefit, politicians will stay away from doing anything to solve the immigration mess and its attending public health problems. The problem of illegal immigration and disease will just grow worse. It's enough to make you sick!
Robert Klein Engler lives in Chicago, and teaches at Roosevelt University. His book, A WINTER OF WORDS, about the ethnic cleansing at Daley College, is available from amazon.com.
-------------------- Fair is Fair
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quiver
freedrug
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Brainiac]
#6334607 - 12/04/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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we were at the chemist/drugstore yesterday picking up some worming pills for our fams and the chemist was telling us that we have tuberculosis again,she was saying we were rid of the disease since the 40's but not now and thats from LEGAL immigration let alone illegal aliens
its the same with personal hygiene and illness
we are forever buying headlice lotion and one year,one of my kids caught a skin virus call foot and mouth from their school. our chemist said shes heard of a few people getting that too
then she told us that one of the local school principles was so fed up with headlice at his school he bought a shitload of headlice lotion out of his own pocket and did the whole school himself
forget them taking jobs for the moment,its the diseases theyre bringing in i'm worried about,these people use school as childcare so they can operate their little shops while their kids are sick,'screw their kids' must be their mantra
then theres the five thousand bodybags our government has ordered for the impending bird flu outbreak we're just waiting to get...
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6335030 - 12/05/06 12:46 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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So is it your argument that the US should just open its borders and let any person come to this country?
Are you saying that the US would be better off if your "policy" of unlimited illegal immigrants were enacted?
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
#6335050 - 12/05/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: So is it your argument that the US should just open its borders and let any person come to this country?
Are you saying that the US would be better off if your "policy" of unlimited illegal immigrants were enacted?
Well, I can't say for certain until such time as the policy is enacted, but yes.
From all the well-researched peer-reviewed evidence available, it seems that an unflux of immigrants helps the economy and doesn't actually reduce employment or wages. The fact that wages and employment as a % of the workforce have both grown from 2001 to 2006, the same period where illegal immigration increased, also provides evidence in support of this viewpoint.
I understand how seductive the reasoning behind policies to limit immigration is, but the numbers just don't support it.
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quiver
freedrug
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6335252 - 12/05/06 02:18 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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what youre saying is as long as immigrants enter our countries regardless of whether they work or collect welfare,the bottom line is the rich that own everything will always have someone else with a dollar they can take,they need it
screw us i know we need immigration to a point of skilled workers but when they start bringing their great grandmothers here because theyre 'lonely' the only people who win is the government and multinational companies
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Edited by quiver (12/05/06 02:33 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: quiver]
#6335303 - 12/05/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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> i know we need immigration to a point of skilled workers but when they start bringing their great grandmothers
I would claim the opposite. The harm comes when people become "illegal/legal guest workers" rather than immigrants. Immigration implies acceptance of a new country as home. As such, true immigrants (including their families) become part of the system rather than a parasite feeding from the system.
> I understand how seductive the reasoning behind policies to limit immigration is, but the numbers just don't support it.
I have no problem with immigration, but I have a huge problem with illegal aliens. The illegal aliens are parasites that take from everybody else and return nothing in exchange. (They use hospitals, schools, roads, welfare for free, pay no taxes what-so-ever, and then send all the cash they make under the table back to their own country, thus rubbing salt in the wound.) To me, these are the people that have no desire to build a new home, they simply want the benefits of a job. I am more than willing to help an immigrant become my neighbor, but I will fight to my last breath to stop the illegal aliens that simply want to take from all of us to better their life. I have no sympathy for greed.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Seuss]
#6335436 - 12/05/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6335460 - 12/05/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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In this fantasy world of yours.
Would a citizen of the US be able to "work a deal" with his employer for "cash under the table" and aoid paying any form of federal or state taxes. The employer therfore gets to drop any insurance on me. Everyone saving money in the long run and screwing our government in the process??????
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
#6335670 - 12/05/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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> Would a citizen of the US be able to "work a deal" with his employer for "cash under the table"
I hate to speak for Economist, but I assume his point is that by making it legal for everybody without limits to work (regardless of where they are from), then there would be no more "under the table" deals, thus the tax base would increase, etc, etc...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Seuss]
#6335877 - 12/05/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: I am more than willing to help an immigrant become my neighbor, but I will fight to my last breath to stop the illegal aliens that simply want to take from all of us to better their life. I have no sympathy for greed.
I don't disagree with you, but this sounds to me like a problem of welfare reform, and not a problem of immigration. In one of the studies I linked to on the previous page of this thread it explicitly states that citizens who don't seek employment are a much larger drain on our welfare and medicare rolls than illegal aliens.
I don't think we should keep people out on the off chance that they're showing up to take government benefits without paying into the system. (and, again, one of the studies I linked on the previous page states that this is indeed an off chance, the vast majority of immigrants want to build a life here)
I do think we should reform the welfare system such that anyone, regardless of where they are born, cannot take out of the system if they don't ever plan to pay back into it.
Also,
Seuss, you can speak for me whenever you want, your comments are upstanding, plus you were spot on with what I would have said. +5 shrooms for you (not that you need more ratings!)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6335953 - 12/05/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
In one of the studies I linked to on the previous page of this thread it explicitly states that citizens who don't seek employment are a much larger drain on our welfare and medicare rolls than illegal aliens.
Again, I don't mind taking care of my own problems (the citizens that don't seek employment), but I don't see why I have to take care of other countries problems (illegal aliens) as well. I don't mind legal immigration, it is illegal aliens that I have a problem with. If immigrtion quotas were to go away, so would my complaints about illegal aliens.
Quote:
but this sounds to me like a problem of welfare reform
Probably a bit of both. Welfare is another issue I have problems with, but I don't want to derail this thread.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6339865 - 12/06/06 09:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Economist said:
Quote:
niteowl said: So is it your argument that the US should just open its borders and let any person come to this country?
Are you saying that the US would be better off if your "policy" of unlimited illegal immigrants were enacted?
Well, I can't say for certain until such time as the policy is enacted, but yes.
From all the well-researched peer-reviewed evidence available, it seems that an unflux of immigrants helps the economy and doesn't actually reduce employment or wages. The fact that wages and employment as a % of the workforce have both grown from 2001 to 2006, the same period where illegal immigration increased, also provides evidence in support of this viewpoint.
I understand how seductive the reasoning behind policies to limit immigration is, but the numbers just don't support it.
Yeah, have 1 billion people come to America, that would be good for your country.
I am concerned about people with the views you have, because if things go your way, it's only a matter of time before my country is raped, after yours falls.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Economist
in training
Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
#6339880 - 12/06/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hank, FTW said: I am concerned about people with the views you have, because if things go your way, it's only a matter of time before my country is raped, after yours falls.
That's funny, because I'm concerned about people who don't base their views on actual research.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
#6339940 - 12/06/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Come on, if there was unlimited immigration, and people could just enter the country and not have to leave, what do you think would happen? I would be willing to bet everything I have that your population would double with in a year.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
#6339953 - 12/06/06 10:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm sure doing so would work wonders for this country's stability.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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