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Invisiblequiver
freedrug
Male

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: wilshire]
    #6309170 - 11/28/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i don't know... maybe i'd blame my poor fortune on those damn foreigners who are willing to work for less than i am (how dare they) and start demanding the government keep my employer from hiring them, ignoring the creation of jobs and wealth resulting elsewhere.  :shrug:




why not blame your employer for spitting in your face as a reward for your loyalty?


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InvisibleOJK
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6318005 - 11/29/06 05:24 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I don't understand why you think you deserve american citizenship but people born in mexico don't...

is being born inside of the USA some kind of achievement you deserve to be rewarded for?

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318034 - 11/29/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

> I don't understand why you think you deserve american citizenship but people born in mexico don't...

So you wouldn't mind if some random stranger comes over to your house for a few years to crash... and it wouldn't bother you to feed this person, and his family... It isn't really your house, so you don't really deserve to get to keep it all to yourself... it really belongs to the people of Earth.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318035 - 11/29/06 07:21 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Why should I not be granted English citizenship? Those born in England are no more deserving of it than I am.

While I'm at it, I want German, Swedish, Italian, Spanish, and French citizenship. Okay... just kidding about the French citizenship. But let's face it -- those born in Germany didn't achieve anything more to be rewarded for than I did. Nor did those Swedes or Italians or Spanish.



Phred


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318086 - 11/29/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't understand why you think you deserve american citizenship but people born in mexico don't...




He never said they didn't deserve citizenship.
Actually he implied the opposite.
He would rather see them as legal citizens instead of illegal immigrants.
When illegal immigrants mooch off the system....every one suffers, even the illegals eventually.

Citizenship should be given to any person wanting to come into this country. They should be given a SSN and allowed to go to work wherever they want.....as legal tax paying citizens.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleOJK
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Seuss]
    #6318167 - 11/29/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
So you wouldn't mind if some random stranger comes over to your house for a few years to crash... and it wouldn't bother you to feed this person, and his family... It isn't really your house, so you don't really deserve to get to keep it all to yourself... it really belongs to the people of Earth.




If it was my house, I would certainly mind - however, if it was a house that I shared with millions and millions of other people, who were also strangers, then no, I would not mind. I would think that I had no more right to be in the house than any other person, as I couldn't claim ownership of it.

The analogy of a country as a house is unhelpful, because a house is not generally shared with strangers, and a house is a physical good, which can be bought and sold. One acquires a house with capital. One does not acquire citizenship with capital. If a house was shared with strangers, as a country is, and I could not claim to own the house, as I can not claim to own a country, why would I mind the strangers I shared the house were? Why would I mind where they were from?

Likewise, it would bother me no more to feed one stranger over another. I have no greater problem feeding (which, I assume, you use an analogy for paying taxes) a stranger born in Scotland than I do a stranger born in Poland. (Currently, Scotland, my country of residence, is experiencing a massive influx of Polish immigrants.)

I would accept your argument if citizenship was earned, through some kind of test which everyone was eligible to sit. If I had to pass a test to live in the house, and I was only required to feed other people who had passed the test, then yes, having someone who had not passed such a test live in the house and eat food I provide would bother me. This, as far as I can see, is not the case with citizenship. Being born inside of a country's borders is not a test.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6318181 - 11/29/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I work with about 65 Hispanic people and they ALL have an illegal relative(s) spitting out babies and picking up checks and going to the hospital for free. One who works directly with me has a sister with some major medical problems and has had over $100,000 in medical care but shes an illegal and still the hospital keeps doing more and more for her. Plus the lady gets a check for taking care of her sisters retarded 14yo son.

What's even more fucked up is that there are currently ~50 million hard-working American citizens who can't afford medical insurance. They walk a tightrope every day and risk losing everything they've worked for to a single serious illness.

Meanwhile, illegals bypass their compatriots who've been waiting in line, sometimes for years, to legally immigrate. And once here, they get preferential access to medical services over uninsured Americans plus automatic citizenship and indefinite free medical care if they can manage to pop out one more tick on the human overpopulation counter while in this country.

And all this even as Americans have fewer children themselves for lack of resources to pay for their upbringing.

That sucks.  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6318184 - 11/29/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

one must accept the fact that it is our responsibiliy that the child is in the country in the first place. We let them in, intentionally or not. We accept the burden that is not maintaining a secure border.

C'mon. That's like saying that you must feed a burglar if he can manage to break into your house.  :rolleyes:

Edit: it's spelled burglar.  :tongue:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (11/29/06 09:18 AM)

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Diploid]
    #6318186 - 11/29/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I hate it when buglers break into my house.  I mean, it's bad enough that they break in, but then they have to wake me up with their damn bugling!  :lol:

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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318203 - 11/29/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Being born inside of a country's borders is not a test.

No, it isn't a test.
It is a privilege.

I get to live in my country (house) and contribute to it by paying taxes.
If someone is in my country (house) and is not helping with the upkeep......something needs to change......asap.

They need to help out more (pay taxes) or get out of my house!  :crankey:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318208 - 11/29/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't understand why you think you deserve american citizenship but people born in mexico don't...

is being born inside of the USA some kind of achievement you deserve to be rewarded for?




They should wait in line, like everyone else.


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Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleOJK
Stranger
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Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
    #6318210 - 11/29/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

So, are you in favour of deporting, or at least stripping citizenship from, american citizens who live on benefits?

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6318213 - 11/29/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

If it was my house, I would certainly mind - however, if it was a house that I shared with millions and millions of other people, who were also strangers, then no, I would not mind.

The analogy of a country as a house is unhelpful


I think it's a perfect analogy, but how about this one:

You share a communal swimming pool paid for and maintained by the dues you pay your condo association. Would you be willing to let the general public come swim in your communal pool? Probably not.

Just because none of us individually own the USA doesn't mean that it's not ours, for better or worse. We all have a stake in preventing the erosion of our standard of living.

I'm all for compassion, but it has to be given intelligently or the economic dilution that will result in the US will end up hurting poor third-world people in the long run more than tight immigration controls will now.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Diploid]
    #6318278 - 11/29/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Just because none of us individually own the USA doesn't mean that it's not ours, for better or worse. We all have a stake in preventing the erosion of our standard of living.




You just brought a tear to my eye.

I agree. The infestation of the Mexican onto our land is eroding our way of life and is a threat to our heratige.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6318296 - 11/29/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Why is that so hard for most people to understand? I am from Canada, and I understand what it is doing to your country.

Look at east L.A. it's a sign of things to come.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6318582 - 11/29/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Illegal immigration is excellent for business tho. You can't argue that.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Alex213]
    #6318687 - 11/29/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Illegal immigration is excellent for business tho. You can't argue that.

So were exploited children before labor laws. :shrug:

We should no more take unfair advantage of illegals by making them work for less than minimum wage than we should allow them in ahead of their friends back home seeking to immigrate legally.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: OJK]
    #6319535 - 11/29/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
So, are you in favour of deporting, or at least stripping citizenship from, american citizens who live on benefits?




Many (if not all) Americans "living off the system" at some point or another, paid money into the system.

Illegals never pay into the system.
They just take money out of the system.

Quote:

Diploid said:
We should no more take unfair advantage of illegals by making them work for less than minimum wage.........




A person paid $5 per hour "cash under the table" will bring home more money than someone getting the minimum wage and having to pay taxes on it

At $5 per hour cash for a forty hour week is $200.
That is $200 take home cash in your pocket at the end of the week.

The same forty hour week @ a minimum wage of $5.75 is $230 pre-tax........
$177 take home after a 23% yank from the government.

An American paying into the system would have to make $6.50 per hour to bring home $200.

The illegals are making more money (not less) than the average American by not having to pay into the system.

:doublefu:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
    #6319574 - 11/29/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think Odiumjunkie raises a valid point. There is no inherent reason why those born in America are more deserving of these benefits than those born in Mexico. I think it should also be said that most of the problems attributed to illegal immigration would be essentially the same if there was a similar increase in population by other means. If we were truly to fair about it, all national borders would be abolished. But we don't want fairness. We want privilege. And illegal immigration does indeed threaten America's privileges.


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Silversoul]
    #6319687 - 11/29/06 09:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think Odiumjunkie raises a valid point. There is no inherent reason why those born in America are more deserving of these benefits than those born in Mexico.




What? How can you honestly say that a person who uses the system but never pays into the system is OK.

No one here ever said that being a citizen of the US was some great reward that should be kept only to Americans. What we are trying to say is........

"Come to our country and become a citizen. We want more tax paying citizens in our country. We don't want free loaders coming here and stealing our social/economic benefits."

Quote:

I think it should also be said that most of the problems attributed to illegal immigration would be essentially the same if there was a similar increase in population by other means.




If Americans have more children and raise our population....then these children will be a part of the system and will always pay into the system.

Illegal immigrants never pay into the system.

Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp.

No one wants to prevent Mexicans from becoming American citizens.

We want them to come here and pay taxes but they can make more money by being here illegally.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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