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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants
    #2086567 - 11/09/03 03:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This is old, but nonetheless I will post it.

http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/24617/view

There have been stories recently of Mexico's president asking
America to be more "lenient" with illegal immigrants(can't find
any links right now, I am going by memory).

What the hell is this country coming to when we legitimize
people who have entered America illegally?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2086596 - 11/09/03 03:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's pretty fucking sad.

Round them up, throw them out.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086839 - 11/09/03 06:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know about the "round them up, throw them out" part, but I agree they shouldn't be allowed to get driver's licenses.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086878 - 11/09/03 06:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I don't know about the "round them up, throw them out" part, but I agree they shouldn't be allowed to get driver's licenses.



I don't want people here who's very first act is a crime. I don't want the drain on our economy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086891 - 11/09/03 06:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't want to drain the economy either. I'm just not so sure that keeping them here is as much of a drain on the economy as driving them out would be. About the whole "first act here being a crime" thing, I'm sure as a drug user that you know by now that there is a difference between legality and morality. If someone's first act here was sparking up a joint, I'd have no problem with that.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTao
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086909 - 11/09/03 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah! round'em up and gun'em down, yee-ha!  I was born here, they weren't, that means i have divine right to reap the benefits of a place i did nothing to help bring about!! :shake:

btw, obviously giving them driver's licences is a bit excessive, but this anti-illegal immigrant scapegoating is so close-minded its disgusting. 


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086918 - 11/09/03 07:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Why should illegal immigrants not be able to get driver's license's? They're going to be in this country and driving with or without a license. Why not make the roads safer by atl east educating them on our laws on driving?

luvdemshrooms, you should live in mexico city and see how you feel. Have any kids? If you do, there's quite a high chance that they'll be kidnapped and sold into child pornography. Some days, the city is so polluted that school is canceled because it's so much of a health risk for the kids to be outside. These peoples lives are crap, I offer them complete sympathy.

Might I ask, luvdemshrooms, how it is that they drain our economy?

And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit. My friend's mother has a visa(an immigrant from New Zealand) and a driver's license, but because she isn't a citizen she cannot vote.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2086935 - 11/09/03 07:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MisterKite said:
And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit. My friend's mother has a visa(an immigrant from New Zealand) and a driver's license, but because she isn't a citizen she cannot vote.



You are wrong, you CAN vote in California even if you are an illegal alien. Have you ever heard of 'motor voter?' ANYONE can register to vote, there is no check on the citizenship of those who register. Did you know that it is against the law for public officials to ask you to show proof of citizenship in California for voting purposes? Did you know it is illegal for public officials (or poll workers) to even ask you for proof of identity before you vote? ANYONE can go up to a polling place and identify themselves as someone else who is a registered voter and vote.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (11/09/03 07:23 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086940 - 11/09/03 07:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You've read enough of my posts to know I think everything should be legal as long as it doesn't harm another.

Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can. Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: Tao]
    #2086942 - 11/09/03 07:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I said nothing about shooting anyone. Yes I was born here but as with just about everyone else, my family came here from another country. They came here legally.

I scapegoated no-one.

That was one of your weakest posts I've seen.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086944 - 11/09/03 07:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can.



Damn illegals! I was gonna apply to the "selling fruit by the side of the freeway" job, but some damn illegal immigrants took it! Damn them! Damn them to hell!

Quote:

Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can.




Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't heard of any getting transplant organs, and considering that it's hard enough for people who are legally here to get them, I can't imagine they'd be very high on the list.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2086953 - 11/09/03 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Why should illegal immigrants not be able to get driver's license's?



Yes, much better to reward people for breaking the law.


Quote:

luvdemshrooms, you should live in mexico city and see how you feel.



Not my problem.


Quote:

These peoples lives are crap, I offer them complete sympathy.




I'll offer them a ride to the border.


Quote:

Might I ask, luvdemshrooms, how it is that they drain our economy?



Welfare, food stamps, medical care, daycare and I'm sure there's plenty more.


Quote:

And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit.



You don't have a clue. Most states do not allow checks of ID and citizenship at the polls. Wake the fuck up.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086959 - 11/09/03 07:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Damn illegals! I was gonna apply to the "selling fruit by the side of the freeway" job, but some damn illegal immigrants took it! Damn them! Damn them to hell!



Weak. There are enough illegals doing jobs other than that that unemployeed Americans could do.


Quote:

Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't heard of any getting transplant organs, and considering that it's hard enough for people who are legally here to get them, I can't imagine they'd be very high on the list.



Don't read much?

February 21, 2003

Tough questions about Jessica's transplants

No one can deny that the plight of Jesica Santillan, the sick teenager who mistakenly received organs at Duke University from a donor with a different blood type, is a sad one.

But we cannot ignore the tough public policy questions in Jesica's case that the sob-story writers at The New York Times prefer to paper over:

-- When resources are scarce, as the supply of voluntarily donated organs notoriously are, why shouldn't U.S. citizens get top priority?

-- According to national figures, 16 patients die in the U.S. each day while waiting for a potentially life-saving transplant operation. How many American patients currently on the national organ waiting list were denied access to healthy hearts and lungs as a result of Santillan's two transplant surgeries? Who will tell their stories?

-- Finally, if Jesica recovers from the second heart-lung transplant, will any federal immigration authority have the guts to enforce the law and send her and her family back home to Mexico?

According to Times reporter Denise Grady, "Ms. Santillan's family moved from Mexico to North Carolina three years ago in hopes that she could be treated at Duke for restrictive cardiomyopathy, which caused an enlarged, weakened heart and damaged lungs."

But as other media outlets have more accurately and honestly detailed, Santillan's family didn't just "move" here. They came here illegally by paying a coyote $5,000 to smuggle Santillan and her mother across the border for the express purpose of obtaining medical care and circumventing long wait times in Mexico.

A North Carolina businessman, Mack Mahoney, founded a private charity to raise funds for Santillan's transplants. But the charity cannot replace the organs that were used in Santillan's surgeries. Those hearts and lungs are not fungible.

In all likelihood, taxpayers will be on the hook for Santillan's post-operative care one way or another. Transplant patients must take immunosuppressant medications for the life of the transplanted organs, for example. Typical costs of post-transplant drugs may be as much as $2,500 per month in the first year alone. And as we all know, Santillan's botched operation was far from typical. Her illegal immigrant parents will probably sue Duke University, adding further to this case's surgery-related costs.

The United Network for Organ Sharing, the non-profit group that coordinates the nation's transplant system, has established a policy that no more than 5 percent of the organs transplanted at any hospital are allowed to go to illegal immigrants or foreign nationals. But when medical facilities have tried to deny organ transplants to illegal aliens, they have been met with a political and media uproar. Last summer, for example, the Cleveland Clinic was pressured by a local Hispanic city councilman into admitting an illegal immigrant from Guatemala for a liver transplant after initially turning her away.

The costs of illegal alien health care are crippling hospitals across the country. In North Carolina, where Santillan's family has settled, a Medicaid emergency services program averages 221 new cases every month involving immigrants, many of them illegal, at a cost of about $32 million. As The Washington Times reported recently, dozens of hospitals in the 28 counties along the U.S.-Mexico border in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California have either closed their doors or face bankruptcy because of losses caused by uncompensated care given to illegal immigrants.

Scripps Memorial Hospital in San Diego was forced to close after losing more than $5 million a year in unreimbursed medical care, much of it for illegal immigrants, Times reporter Jerry Seper noted. The Southeast Medical Center in Douglas, Ariz., is on the verge of bankruptcy because of uncompensated care to undocumented aliens; the Cochise County, Ariz., Health Department spends as much as 30 percent of its annual $9 million budget on undocumented aliens; and the University Medical Center in Tucson will spend up to $10 million this year providing uncompensated alien health care.

New York medical providers have performed dozens of organ-transplant operations -- and even sex-change operations -- to illegal aliens. The costs of such "charity" care typically are shifted to insured patients, resulting in higher health insurance premiums.

In a world of scarce resources, compassion must have limits. We cannot afford to be a medical welcome mat to the world.

Link


Do a little research into the organ waiting list and who's on it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086970 - 11/09/03 07:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How did I know it was going to be from that source? Try finding a more credible source next time. Just because a few illegals happen to get lucky doesn't make it the case most of the time.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086975 - 11/09/03 07:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
How did I know it was going to be from that source? Try finding a more credible source next time. Just because a few illegals happen to get lucky doesn't make it the case most of the time.



What the fuck difference does the source make when all you need to do is a Google and easily verify it? You can do a google? Or is the best you can do is to criticize a legitimate source?

Did you not see the reference to the 5% mentioned in the article?
Edit: I went back and highlighted it since it seems you missed it the first time.

Now... be a man and admit you were wrong. It won't kill you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086986 - 11/09/03 07:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Wow--5%! OMG, they're taking the country from us! Sorry, but I don't find 5% to be that scary. I was once in Denmark with a broken arm, and they X-rayed it and redid the cast(which was starting to fall apart) for free. I didn't bother them, and a measly 5% of organ transplants goint to illegal immigrants doesn't bother me all that much. Sorry.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086993 - 11/09/03 07:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, and if it was someone close to you who missed out on a organ so a criminal could have it? Or don't you care about those who are citizens and die while waiting for an organ?

And how about the 7billion plus we spend educating the scumbags?

And as for your arm... did someone die as a result of you being treated? And what about the costs for aftercare? I want citizens getting the organs, not criminals.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087011 - 11/09/03 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just love how you dehumanize these people. They're somehow "scumbags" for wanting a better life for themselves and their children. You don't have to want them to stay, but have a heart, for God's sakes! They're human beings, whose only crime is to try to escape the harsh conditions of their own country for a better life over here.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087017 - 11/09/03 08:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

luvdemshrooms-You say:

"Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can. Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can. "

But what makes someone an illegal? Doing something illegal!!! In the U.S.A. smoking cannabis and consuming hallucongenic mushrooms is a crime. Thus you are an illegal, and you're taking a job. As for the medical care and transplant organs, that is such a low percentage. The effect on you is miniscule. The effect on the illegal immigrants is gargantuan. Why not attempt to be a good person and feel sympahty for people who aren't as fortunate as you?

You say:

"Not my problem."

Wow. I'm just shocked at how selfish and inconsiderate you are. Luvdemshrooms, I hope that you never find yourself in the situation that these people are in, but I feel if you do you will learn a basic human trait and moral: COMPASSION.

Just wondering, luvdemshrooms, are you religious?


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2087024 - 11/09/03 08:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

They aren't scumbags for being wanting a better life, they are scumbags for coming here illegally.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087035 - 11/09/03 08:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But what makes someone an illegal? Doing something illegal!!! In the U.S.A. smoking cannabis and consuming hallucongenic mushrooms is a crime. Thus you are an illegal, and you're taking a job.



Foolish. Smoking a joint does not somehow magically transform me into an illegal alien.


Quote:

As for the medical care and transplant organs, that is such a low percentage.



One is too many. Did you even read the article? Do you have the ability to comprehend what you read?


Quote:

Why not attempt to be a good person and feel sympahty for people who aren't as fortunate as you?



Stupid assumption. I do far more than you'd imagine.


Quote:

Wow. I'm just shocked at how selfish and inconsiderate you are.



Wow. I'm just shocked by what a moronic statement that is.


Quote:

Just wondering, luvdemshrooms, are you religious?



Not that it matters but I'm an atheist.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087053 - 11/09/03 08:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I never said it makes you an illegal alien, but it does make you a criminal, which is what you have against illegal aliens. You are an illegal citizen. Do you see my logic here, luvdemshrooms? You are so against illegal aliens because what they do is illegal. If they were born in the U.S. but took jobs away how would it be any different?


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087058 - 11/09/03 08:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

But what makes someone an illegal? Doing something illegal!!! In the U.S.A. smoking cannabis and consuming hallucongenic mushrooms is a crime. Thus you are an illegal, and you're taking a job.



Foolish. Smoking a joint does not somehow magically transform me into an illegal alien.



No, but it does make you a criminal.

Quote:

Quote:

As for the medical care and transplant organs, that is such a low percentage.



One is too many. Did you even read the article? Do you have the ability to comprehend what you read?



Ya, and...?

Quote:

Quote:

Why not attempt to be a good person and feel sympahty for people who aren't as fortunate as you?



Stupid assumption. I do far more than you'd imagine.



While at the same time insulting them?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087068 - 11/09/03 08:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I never said it makes you an illegal alien, but it does make you a criminal, which is what you have against illegal aliens.



Read a bit closer. I also have a problem with the cost both in jobe and financial. I have no problem with legal immigrants.


Quote:

You are an illegal citizen.



An illegal citizen would be one who commited fraud to become a citizen.
I didn't. I was born here.


Weaker than the last.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2087078 - 11/09/03 08:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

No, but it does make you a criminal.



No, it makes me a lawbreaker / social protester.


Quote:

Ya, and...?



Ya, and if one citizen misses out, that's one too many. The costs to society outweigh the benefits. Ship the scumbags home.


Quote:

While at the same time insulting them?



Nope. I only insult fools. If I'm helping someone I don't consider them to be a fool.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087084 - 11/09/03 08:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

luvdemshrooms, you take it so literally simply to digress from a once valid argument. By illegal citizen, I mean a citizen who has committed a crime and is thus living freely illegally.

Answer me this: What's the difference between an illegal immigrant getting a job or a legal citizen getting a job? The person who has the most diligence and commitment is the one who will be hired, so really this is just supporting our capitalist economic system. If the illegal immigrant is willign to work harder, great for them, now maybe their family won't have to starve to death while they mourn all the abundant tragedies that infest their lives like a maggot in a corpse.

You don't even care to acknowledge the factor of how incredibly shitty these people's lives are in this argument.

If you do so much to help out other peopel and be compassionate, how is this one issue going to burden you? It should make you feel great to support these idols of freedom, of hope.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087094 - 11/09/03 08:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Try this on for size. I can't recall but it's either Washington, Oregon, or Cali, but one of those states, illegal immigrants get in-state tuition at state universities.

WTF?

I don't get that shit. Those people aren't US citizens, and aren't citizens of the state, but get to pay instate tuition. I'm at least a US citizen, but if I wanted to go to a state college, I'd get assraped for tuition.


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2087107 - 11/09/03 08:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That sounds like some affirmative action bullshit, which I highly disagree with.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087114 - 11/09/03 08:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What's the difference between an illegal immigrant getting a job or a legal citizen getting a job?



One is here legally, one is not. Is this really so difficult?


Quote:

The person who has the most diligence and commitment is the one who will be hired, so really this is just supporting our capitalist economic system.



No, all too often it's the one with the proper ethnic background. And given the choice between paying someone here legally the minimum wage, or an illegal substandard wages, who'll often get hired? Hey.... let's exploit the illegals and keep our costs down!


Quote:

If the illegal immigrant is willign to work harder, great for them, now maybe their family won't have to starve to death while the mourn all the abundant tragedies that infest their lives like a maggot in a corpse that you don't even care to acknowledge in this argument.



Not my problem. You help them if you'd like. I'll keep writing my reps and demanding they get shipped out.


Quote:

If you do so much to help out other peopel and be compassionate, how is this one issue going to burden you?



You mean besides the 7b plus that goes to educate the kids of these criminals? You mean besides the other costs such as medical care, food stamps and welfare? You mean besides the jobs they take?


Quote:

It should make you feel great to support these idols of freedom, of hope.



Right. What will make me feel great is seeing the planes and ships carrying them back to where-ever they came from.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087133 - 11/09/03 09:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nope. I only insult fools. If I'm helping someone I don't consider them to be a fool.



Whatever you say.  Somehow, I can't get this image out of my head of you working in a soup kitchen while yelling, "GET A FUCKING JOB YOU SCUMBAG FREELOADERS!" :lol:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2087140 - 11/09/03 09:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That would be funny.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087150 - 11/09/03 09:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That first quote was rhetorical, I answered it in my post. The differnce is one has commited a crime, one has not. The same differnce between you and someone who hasn't committed a crime. These people shouldn;t be discriminated against.

As for the 7b + that we spend on educating illegal immigrants, the credibility was lost once I saw that the source who says we spend that gross amount was extremely biased. If it's the Burea of Immigration Reform, of course they're going to say it's high. They don't even say how they got that number. Plus, it's like saying "We are spending X amount of money on children who are black, if we didn't educate them we could do blah blah blah." Educating illegal immigrants is really the only option we have. They aren't leaving any time soon.

They're here. Lets accomadate them, integrate them into oru society, offer them relief. And luvdemshrooms, find me a credible source so your argument will have some sustenance.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2087168 - 11/09/03 09:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

it's very simple. if you are an illegal immigrant you do not pay taxes. therefore, you have no place driving on our roads, going to our schools, being protected by our police and military, etc.


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: ]
    #2087177 - 11/09/03 09:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Now that is a valid point about going to our schools, and it definetly offers doubt to my views.

As for getting licenses, that effects our tax payments so minutely, I feel that there's no reason they shouldn't be educated on road safety.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087183 - 11/09/03 09:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

road construction and maintanance is paid for out of the pockets of taxpayers. it's not just about the cost of issuing a license.


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087205 - 11/09/03 09:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the credibility was lost once I saw that the source who says we spend that gross amount was extremely biased.



Based on data from the Census and easily verifiable from other sources than the BIR.


Quote:

And luvdemshrooms, find me a credible source so your argument will have some sustenance.



I gave you a source, if you're not staisfied by that, find one to refute it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087230 - 11/09/03 09:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yea mushmaster, i realize that, but not very many illegal immigrants are driving in the first place. To me, the percentage of illegal immigrants to citizens is drastic, and i live close to los angeles. I am willing to pay that half a cent or whatever it probably equates to, to maintain the extremely minimal damage their cars do to our roads.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087297 - 11/09/03 09:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yea mushmaster, i realize that, but not very many illegal immigrants are driving in the first place. To me, the percentage of illegal immigrants to citizens is drastic, and i live close to los angeles. I am willing to pay that half a cent or whatever it probably equates to, to maintain the extremely minimal damage their cars do to our roads.

maybe you are willing to provide free roads for illegal immigrants but others may not be. if you don't pay taxes, you don't drive on the roads. it doesn't matter if there is only one illegal immigrant in the country with a car... he or she should not be able to drive on our roads.

what exactly do you californians even mean by "illegal" immigrant anymore? they're allowed to vote in your elections, drive on your roads, attend your schools... it seems like the only thing they're not allowed to do is work and pay taxes.


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2087803 - 11/10/03 12:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I believe it is any country's right to determine who gets into their
borders and how many get in. Excessive migration of people can
cause all kinds of problems such as resource shortages and excessive
governmental expenditures.

After investigation, I believe that the American economy is better
off with Mexican workers(LEGAL ONES). They work hard and they do a
lot of shit jobs that born and bred Americans don't want to do. I
believe that we should accomodate these legal workers if it is
determined by experts to be beneficial to us.

Illegals are another story. Some of them come in, work, leave,
and cause no problems. Others bring drugs in, vote illegally,
partake in government programs(public education, welfare, health care,
etc...) all the while paying little or no taxes. Basically, there
is too much of a tendency for them to come in and do things that
are detrimental to real American citizens.

That's why we don't need any more of them. The ones that are here
should be tracked down and shipped back to their countries in my
opinion. The border should be beefed up dramatically. I support
the concept of the border patrol having a hell of a lot more
manpower and ability. To put it more simply, I think that the border
should be practically militarized.


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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2088090 - 11/10/03 01:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Luvdemshrooms said:
I said nothing about shooting anyone.




obviously i know you didnt.  its just that you come across as having a complete lack of compassion towards these people that it reminded me of texas rangers and their shoot-first-ask-questions-later policy towards mexicans. 

Quote:


Yes I was born here but as with just about everyone else, my family came here from another country. They came here legally.




well if you live here a certain amount of time you just become a citizen regardless if you came illegaly, and if youre ancestors were illegal, their children born here would be citizens.  its very likely that a hell of a lot of citizens here had ancestors who were illegal even though they themselves are citizens.  but the bottom line is that i just don't see how what other people, who happen to be related to you, did in the past, gives you this unassaible right to shit, and other people not.  i acknowledge that we unfortunately have to have some checks on illegal immigrants, but i dont understand how you can be so uncompassionate to people who happened to be born in such a shitty place while you were so goddamn lucky as to be born where you did.

Quote:


I scapegoated no-one.




you blame them for having this horrible effect on our economy.  welfare is what percentage of our taxes (percentage, not dollars)?  and what percentage of illegals actually receive welfare?  so then what does it come out to?  its gotta be something like <0.5% of my money, which isnt something to get so aggressive about.  shit ive thrown away pennies before. 

Quote:


That was one of your weakest posts I've seen.





:sad: no, please, dont say that.  :nonono: i am desperately seeking your approval.  :rolleyes: 


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2088512 - 11/10/03 05:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

After investigation, I believe that the American economy is better
off with Mexican workers(LEGAL ONES).



Legal being the key word.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: Tao]
    #2088521 - 11/10/03 05:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

its just that you come across as having a complete lack of compassion towards these people that it reminded me of texas rangers and their shoot-first-ask-questions-later policy towards mexicans.



I wish them no ill, I just want them sent home. If you don't see the difference between the two then what can I say. Weak.


Quote:

well if you live here a certain amount of time you just become a citizen regardless if you came illegaly



Only if the feds grant amnesty. Where did you get such a silly idea from?


Quote:

and if youre ancestors were illegal, their children born here would be citizens.



No shit Sherlock. That needs to be changed. Only the children of citizens should be granted automatic citizenship.


Quote:

but the bottom line is that i just don't see how what other people, who happen to be related to you, did in the past, gives you this unassaible right to shit, and other people not.



Like it or not, it's the law.


Quote:

i acknowledge that we unfortunately have to have some checks on illegal immigrants, but i dont understand how you can be so uncompassionate to people who happened to be born in such a shitty place while you were so goddamn lucky as to be born where you did.




Let's see if I can phrase this in a way you will understand. I don't give a fuck if you understand it or not.


Quote:

you blame them for having this horrible effect on our economy.



The facts bear out that they are a drain on our economy. Let unemployeed Americans have those jobs the illegals take.


Quote:

welfare is what percentage of our taxes (percentage, not dollars)? and what percentage of illegals actually receive welfare?



.01% is too much, one on welfare is too much.


Quote:

shit ive thrown away pennies before.



Who cares. So what.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTao
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2089158 - 11/10/03 01:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well luv, now it is I who thinks THAT was the worst response ive ever seen from you. you hardly responded to any of my points, used circulur logic (as in "its wrong because its illegal" do you think pot smokers and shroomers should be thrown in jail?) and just said you "didnt care" which i actually already know which i think is sad.


--------------------
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