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OfflineEconomist
in training
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Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6339971 - 12/06/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Even if every single man, woman, and child in the nation of Mexico up and moved to the US, that would result in a 50% increase in the population, not a doubling.

It's also highly unlikely.

Even if they took the rest of Central America with them, that's still only about 200 million people compared to the 300 million living in the US.

The population of South America is around 370 million, so in order for the population of the US to double within 1 year, more than 1 out of ever 2 people living in South and Central America would have to move to the United States. This clearly isn't going to happen.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
    #6339980 - 12/06/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Heh, that was sweet. :cool:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
    #6340018 - 12/06/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I was unaware that immigrants only came from central America and South America. What about China, India, the Mid East, Eastern Europe, Africa and every other place on the planet that is poor? I am sure there would be many "charity" groups out there willing to pay their fare.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

Edited by Hank, FTW (12/06/06 10:28 AM)

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OfflineEconomist
in training
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Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6345179 - 12/07/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Go to the department of homeland security's website and look at the illegal immigration figures from China and India (people get antsy when I post links to the Homeland Security website on this board, can't say I blame them), the totals for both nations are just above 200,000 people.

Meaning that the legal immigration rate, assuming we let everyone in, would have to balloon to over 1000x the current illegal rate for the US population to double due to immigration from either of those nations.

As for Eastern Europe, the same math as South America applies, there are a sum total of fewer than 100 million people living in Eastern Europe, so almost 1 out of every two people living in Eastern Europe and Latin America (central and south) COMBINED would have to move to the US in order to double the population.

I'm sorry, but the likelihood of the US population doubling in 1 year due to unlimited immigration seems INCREDIBLY small given the total population of regions with likely high immigration rates (Latin America, Eastern Europe) and the low immigration rates from countries that could overwhelm the US (India, China).

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Economist]
    #6347566 - 12/08/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The reason the immigration rates are low from those countries could be due to the fact that they ARE NOT LET IN!


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflineEconomist
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Registered: 10/11/05
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Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6348527 - 12/08/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, no offense, but did you even read my post? Those are the numbers of illegal immigrants from China and India, not the number allowed in under the current quota system...

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InvisibleConservationist
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 435
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: DieCommie]
    #6349412 - 12/08/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

All I'm doing is pointing out that multiculturalism and immigration-based societies do not work.

That's historical fact.

If that upsets you, move to another universe where it isn't true. In the meantime, I prefer reality.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Conservationist]
    #6349877 - 12/09/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Conservationist said:
All I'm doing is pointing out that multiculturalism and immigration-based societies do not work.




Have you ever been to the U.S.? I don't see how you can make this statement, seeing the success that the U.S. has had with multiculturalism, and immigration.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
    #6350557 - 12/09/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The success of the US is far more a result of assimilation, which was the norm for immigrants until rather recently. There was no requirement that notices be printed in any language other than English and the expectation was that immigrants were to embrace America and leave their old ways behind. Pretty much all that remained were cuisine and a few religious festivals. This is not the case for the current influx of Hispanics.

I'm not attempting to make any value judgements here, that's for another post. I'm merely trying to point out that the success of the US is not an example of the positive effects of multi-culturalism as it was not practiced here until recently, having it's roots in the Civil Rights movement of the 60s.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
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Loc: Flag
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6350604 - 12/09/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Many of the large cities have distinct ethnic areas. Making America one of the few nations that embrace different cultures rather than try to remove their ethnic "flavor" from our country.

Every State you visit in America has its own sub-culture. The "American culture" is more and more becoming a "Capitalistic culture" as more and more countries embrace a free market and a global economy.

People who come to America (or any nation) "under the radar" so to speak. Are not contributing to our nation, they are sponging off of it. It is more beneficial (for America) for these people to become legal citizens of our country rather than steal our wealth and send it back to their home countries.

Should we give them temporary legal status through a workers permit......sure. At least that way they will still pay state and federal income tax like the rest of us.

The benefit to an employer in hiring illegal aliens is that they don't have to pay any kind of tax or insurance on them. An immigrant with a workers permit will have to give the government the name of the person/company they are working for.......therefore taking away the employers benefit of hiring an illegal.

May as well hire a local if your gonna have to pay tax on them.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
    #6350657 - 12/09/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I grew up in NYC in the 60s. Although there were certainly ethnic neighborhoods they existed as subsets within the greater notion of "America" and the people in them were expected to adapt to the "American Way of LIfe" not import their culture to impose on America and force other Americans to adapt to them. That is the multiculturalist position, that Americans need to accept the foibles of and accomodate the immigrants. I just read recently about this Saudi asshole in Colorado who kept a woman prisoner and beat her and used her as a sex slave and withheld her pay and passport. He whined at his sentencing that those were the customs of his country, as if we should give a fuck. We have customs too. One of them is that if you think you're going to do that shit here you will be "customarily" incarcerated for many years.


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OfflinePsilly Billy
Deranger
Male

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 76
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14064303 - 03/04/11 01:19 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I grew up in NYC in the 60s.  Although there were certainly ethnic neighborhoods they existed as subsets within the greater notion of "America" and the people in them were expected to adapt to the "American Way of LIfe"  not import their culture to impose on America and force other Americans to adapt to them. 



As opposed to what? Just importing the people, and forcing them to adapt to American "Ways"?

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OfflineScreaming Eagle
American Patriot


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 54
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14064315 - 03/04/11 01:24 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I grew up in NYC in the 60s.  Although there were certainly ethnic neighborhoods they existed as subsets within the greater notion of "America" and the people in them were expected to adapt to the "American Way of LIfe"  not import their culture to impose on America and force other Americans to adapt to them.  That is the multiculturalist position, that Americans need to accept the foibles of and accomodate the immigrants.  I just read recently about this Saudi asshole in Colorado who kept a woman prisoner and beat her and used her as a sex slave and withheld her pay and passport.  He whined at his sentencing that those were the customs of his country, as if we should give a fuck.  We have customs too.  One of them is that if you think you're going to do that shit here you will be "customarily" incarcerated for many years.




DAMN STRAIGHT!  I couldn't agree more.  You're a smart guy, Zappa.  Don't let all these commies tell you otherwise.

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OfflinePsilly Billy
Deranger
Male

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 76
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: niteowl]
    #14064364 - 03/04/11 01:43 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think Odiumjunkie raises a valid point.  There is no inherent reason why those born in America are more deserving of these benefits than those born in Mexico.




What? How can you honestly say that a person who uses the system but never pays into the system is OK.

No one here ever said that being a citizen of the US was some great reward that should be kept only to Americans. What we are trying to say is........

"Come to our country and become a citizen. We want more tax paying citizens in our country. We don't want free loaders coming here and stealing our social/economic benefits."

Quote:

I think it should also be said that most of the problems attributed to illegal immigration would be essentially the same if there was a similar increase in population by other means.




If Americans have more children and raise our population....then these children will be a part of the system and will always pay into the system.

Illegal immigrants never pay into the system.

Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp.

No one wants to prevent Mexicans from becoming American citizens.

We want them to come here and pay taxes but they can make more money by being here illegally.



Everybody makes more money when there is an illegal workforce to be exploited. The illegals, the employers, the govt, the illegal's home govt, the retail outlets, the landlords, the prison system, everyone.
And it's all carefully orchestrated from the top levels of Government.
Including the myth that illegals are "stealing Tax Dollars". In point of fact, they are propping the economy up if anything.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Psilly Billy]
    #14064896 - 03/04/11 07:02 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Psilly Billy said:
Everybody makes more money when there is an illegal workforce to be exploited. The illegals, the employers, the govt, the illegal's home govt, the retail outlets, the landlords, the prison system, everyone.





what about the landscapers and construction workers that are in direct
competition with these illegals and the companies hiring illegals. how
does a residential contractor that hires US citizens or legal immigrants
make more when they have to compete with companies that employ illegals for
labor? how do I as a farmer make more when my competitors can bring a crop to
market under the price that I can because they choose to violate federal law
on hiring illegal aliens while I choose to obey the laws?

seems the only ones really making more are those that violate the laws

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OfflineLord Amok
Glorious Visage of Punchability
Male


Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 51
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14065005 - 03/04/11 07:53 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I grew up in NYC in the 60s.  Although there were certainly ethnic neighborhoods they existed as subsets within the greater notion of "America" and the people in them were expected to adapt to the "American Way of LIfe"  not import their culture to impose on America and force other Americans to adapt to them.  That is the multiculturalist position, that Americans need to accept the foibles of and accomodate the immigrants.  I just read recently about this Saudi asshole in Colorado who kept a woman prisoner and beat her and used her as a sex slave and withheld her pay and passport.  He whined at his sentencing that those were the customs of his country, as if we should give a fuck.  We have customs too.  One of them is that if you think you're going to do that shit here you will be "customarily" incarcerated for many years.




I don't think you understand what multiculturalism is.


--------------------
Viva las Vegas.

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OfflineZenarchist23
Stranger
Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 22
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Lord Amok]
    #14065438 - 03/04/11 09:58 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Lord Amok said:
I don't think he understand what multiculturalism is.




+1

Edited by Zenarchist23 (03/04/11 10:00 AM)

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 12 days
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: Zenarchist23]
    #14065527 - 03/04/11 10:25 AM (13 years, 18 days ago)

ni-hi  ga-nv-wo-i  hi-ne-gv  hi-a  ga-wo-ni-s-di  hi-a  a-ni-yv-wi-ya  hi-ne-gv  (ha-wi-(na)di-tlv  hi-ya  ga-do-hi.

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OfflineChelleLaBelle
Wicked Witch of the Midwest
Female


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 31
Loc: Missouri
Last seen: 13 years, 12 days
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: TheThinker]
    #14067659 - 03/04/11 06:27 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:
ni-hi  ga-nv-wo-i  hi-ne-gv  hi-a  ga-wo-ni-s-di  hi-a  a-ni-yv-wi-ya  hi-ne-gv  (ha-wi-(na)di-tlv  hi-ya  ga-do-hi.





u-wo-du-hi  :thumbup:

wa-do o-gi-na-li


--------------------
If this were a movie, would you be a character in it? Or just an extra?

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OfflinePsilly Billy
Deranger
Male

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 76
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Illegal Immigration [Re: ChelleLaBelle]
    #14068179 - 03/04/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 18 days ago)

Wow. What does that mean?

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