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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants
    #2086567 - 11/09/03 03:02 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

This is old, but nonetheless I will post it.

http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/24617/view

There have been stories recently of Mexico's president asking
America to be more "lenient" with illegal immigrants(can't find
any links right now, I am going by memory).

What the hell is this country coming to when we legitimize
people who have entered America illegally?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2086596 - 11/09/03 03:24 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

It's pretty fucking sad.

Round them up, throw them out.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086839 - 11/09/03 06:20 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

I don't know about the "round them up, throw them out" part, but I agree they shouldn't be allowed to get driver's licenses.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086878 - 11/09/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I don't know about the "round them up, throw them out" part, but I agree they shouldn't be allowed to get driver's licenses.



I don't want people here who's very first act is a crime. I don't want the drain on our economy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086891 - 11/09/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

I don't want to drain the economy either. I'm just not so sure that keeping them here is as much of a drain on the economy as driving them out would be. About the whole "first act here being a crime" thing, I'm sure as a drug user that you know by now that there is a difference between legality and morality. If someone's first act here was sparking up a joint, I'd have no problem with that.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086909 - 11/09/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Yeah! round'em up and gun'em down, yee-ha!  I was born here, they weren't, that means i have divine right to reap the benefits of a place i did nothing to help bring about!! :shake:

btw, obviously giving them driver's licences is a bit excessive, but this anti-illegal immigrant scapegoating is so close-minded its disgusting. 


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086918 - 11/09/03 07:03 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Why should illegal immigrants not be able to get driver's license's? They're going to be in this country and driving with or without a license. Why not make the roads safer by atl east educating them on our laws on driving?

luvdemshrooms, you should live in mexico city and see how you feel. Have any kids? If you do, there's quite a high chance that they'll be kidnapped and sold into child pornography. Some days, the city is so polluted that school is canceled because it's so much of a health risk for the kids to be outside. These peoples lives are crap, I offer them complete sympathy.

Might I ask, luvdemshrooms, how it is that they drain our economy?

And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit. My friend's mother has a visa(an immigrant from New Zealand) and a driver's license, but because she isn't a citizen she cannot vote.


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2086935 - 11/09/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

MisterKite said:
And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit. My friend's mother has a visa(an immigrant from New Zealand) and a driver's license, but because she isn't a citizen she cannot vote.



You are wrong, you CAN vote in California even if you are an illegal alien. Have you ever heard of 'motor voter?' ANYONE can register to vote, there is no check on the citizenship of those who register. Did you know that it is against the law for public officials to ask you to show proof of citizenship in California for voting purposes? Did you know it is illegal for public officials (or poll workers) to even ask you for proof of identity before you vote? ANYONE can go up to a polling place and identify themselves as someone else who is a registered voter and vote.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (11/09/03 07:23 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086940 - 11/09/03 07:16 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

You've read enough of my posts to know I think everything should be legal as long as it doesn't harm another.

Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can. Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: Tao]
    #2086942 - 11/09/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

I said nothing about shooting anyone. Yes I was born here but as with just about everyone else, my family came here from another country. They came here legally.

I scapegoated no-one.

That was one of your weakest posts I've seen.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086944 - 11/09/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can.



Damn illegals! I was gonna apply to the "selling fruit by the side of the freeway" job, but some damn illegal immigrants took it! Damn them! Damn them to hell!

Quote:

Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can.




Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't heard of any getting transplant organs, and considering that it's hard enough for people who are legally here to get them, I can't imagine they'd be very high on the list.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: MisterKite]
    #2086953 - 11/09/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Why should illegal immigrants not be able to get driver's license's?



Yes, much better to reward people for breaking the law.


Quote:

luvdemshrooms, you should live in mexico city and see how you feel.



Not my problem.


Quote:

These peoples lives are crap, I offer them complete sympathy.




I'll offer them a ride to the border.


Quote:

Might I ask, luvdemshrooms, how it is that they drain our economy?



Welfare, food stamps, medical care, daycare and I'm sure there's plenty more.


Quote:

And for anyone who says that if you have a driver's license you can vote, that is such bullshit.



You don't have a clue. Most states do not allow checks of ID and citizenship at the polls. Wake the fuck up.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086959 - 11/09/03 07:29 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Damn illegals! I was gonna apply to the "selling fruit by the side of the freeway" job, but some damn illegal immigrants took it! Damn them! Damn them to hell!



Weak. There are enough illegals doing jobs other than that that unemployeed Americans could do.


Quote:

Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't heard of any getting transplant organs, and considering that it's hard enough for people who are legally here to get them, I can't imagine they'd be very high on the list.



Don't read much?

February 21, 2003

Tough questions about Jessica's transplants

No one can deny that the plight of Jesica Santillan, the sick teenager who mistakenly received organs at Duke University from a donor with a different blood type, is a sad one.

But we cannot ignore the tough public policy questions in Jesica's case that the sob-story writers at The New York Times prefer to paper over:

-- When resources are scarce, as the supply of voluntarily donated organs notoriously are, why shouldn't U.S. citizens get top priority?

-- According to national figures, 16 patients die in the U.S. each day while waiting for a potentially life-saving transplant operation. How many American patients currently on the national organ waiting list were denied access to healthy hearts and lungs as a result of Santillan's two transplant surgeries? Who will tell their stories?

-- Finally, if Jesica recovers from the second heart-lung transplant, will any federal immigration authority have the guts to enforce the law and send her and her family back home to Mexico?

According to Times reporter Denise Grady, "Ms. Santillan's family moved from Mexico to North Carolina three years ago in hopes that she could be treated at Duke for restrictive cardiomyopathy, which caused an enlarged, weakened heart and damaged lungs."

But as other media outlets have more accurately and honestly detailed, Santillan's family didn't just "move" here. They came here illegally by paying a coyote $5,000 to smuggle Santillan and her mother across the border for the express purpose of obtaining medical care and circumventing long wait times in Mexico.

A North Carolina businessman, Mack Mahoney, founded a private charity to raise funds for Santillan's transplants. But the charity cannot replace the organs that were used in Santillan's surgeries. Those hearts and lungs are not fungible.

In all likelihood, taxpayers will be on the hook for Santillan's post-operative care one way or another. Transplant patients must take immunosuppressant medications for the life of the transplanted organs, for example. Typical costs of post-transplant drugs may be as much as $2,500 per month in the first year alone. And as we all know, Santillan's botched operation was far from typical. Her illegal immigrant parents will probably sue Duke University, adding further to this case's surgery-related costs.

The United Network for Organ Sharing, the non-profit group that coordinates the nation's transplant system, has established a policy that no more than 5 percent of the organs transplanted at any hospital are allowed to go to illegal immigrants or foreign nationals. But when medical facilities have tried to deny organ transplants to illegal aliens, they have been met with a political and media uproar. Last summer, for example, the Cleveland Clinic was pressured by a local Hispanic city councilman into admitting an illegal immigrant from Guatemala for a liver transplant after initially turning her away.

The costs of illegal alien health care are crippling hospitals across the country. In North Carolina, where Santillan's family has settled, a Medicaid emergency services program averages 221 new cases every month involving immigrants, many of them illegal, at a cost of about $32 million. As The Washington Times reported recently, dozens of hospitals in the 28 counties along the U.S.-Mexico border in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California have either closed their doors or face bankruptcy because of losses caused by uncompensated care given to illegal immigrants.

Scripps Memorial Hospital in San Diego was forced to close after losing more than $5 million a year in unreimbursed medical care, much of it for illegal immigrants, Times reporter Jerry Seper noted. The Southeast Medical Center in Douglas, Ariz., is on the verge of bankruptcy because of uncompensated care to undocumented aliens; the Cochise County, Ariz., Health Department spends as much as 30 percent of its annual $9 million budget on undocumented aliens; and the University Medical Center in Tucson will spend up to $10 million this year providing uncompensated alien health care.

New York medical providers have performed dozens of organ-transplant operations -- and even sex-change operations -- to illegal aliens. The costs of such "charity" care typically are shifted to insured patients, resulting in higher health insurance premiums.

In a world of scarce resources, compassion must have limits. We cannot afford to be a medical welcome mat to the world.

Link


Do a little research into the organ waiting list and who's on it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086970 - 11/09/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

How did I know it was going to be from that source? Try finding a more credible source next time. Just because a few illegals happen to get lucky doesn't make it the case most of the time.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086975 - 11/09/03 07:38 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
How did I know it was going to be from that source? Try finding a more credible source next time. Just because a few illegals happen to get lucky doesn't make it the case most of the time.



What the fuck difference does the source make when all you need to do is a Google and easily verify it? You can do a google? Or is the best you can do is to criticize a legitimate source?

Did you not see the reference to the 5% mentioned in the article?
Edit: I went back and highlighted it since it seems you missed it the first time.

Now... be a man and admit you were wrong. It won't kill you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2086986 - 11/09/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Wow--5%! OMG, they're taking the country from us! Sorry, but I don't find 5% to be that scary. I was once in Denmark with a broken arm, and they X-rayed it and redid the cast(which was starting to fall apart) for free. I didn't bother them, and a measly 5% of organ transplants goint to illegal immigrants doesn't bother me all that much. Sorry.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2086993 - 11/09/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Yeah, and if it was someone close to you who missed out on a organ so a criminal could have it? Or don't you care about those who are citizens and die while waiting for an organ?

And how about the 7billion plus we spend educating the scumbags?

And as for your arm... did someone die as a result of you being treated? And what about the costs for aftercare? I want citizens getting the organs, not criminals.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087011 - 11/09/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

I just love how you dehumanize these people. They're somehow "scumbags" for wanting a better life for themselves and their children. You don't have to want them to stay, but have a heart, for God's sakes! They're human beings, whose only crime is to try to escape the harsh conditions of their own country for a better life over here.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2087017 - 11/09/03 08:12 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

luvdemshrooms-You say:

"Someone smoking a joint harms no-one. An illegal taking a job can. Illegals getting free medical care and transplant organs can. "

But what makes someone an illegal? Doing something illegal!!! In the U.S.A. smoking cannabis and consuming hallucongenic mushrooms is a crime. Thus you are an illegal, and you're taking a job. As for the medical care and transplant organs, that is such a low percentage. The effect on you is miniscule. The effect on the illegal immigrants is gargantuan. Why not attempt to be a good person and feel sympahty for people who aren't as fortunate as you?

You say:

"Not my problem."

Wow. I'm just shocked at how selfish and inconsiderate you are. Luvdemshrooms, I hope that you never find yourself in the situation that these people are in, but I feel if you do you will learn a basic human trait and moral: COMPASSION.

Just wondering, luvdemshrooms, are you religious?


--------------------
"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Drivers licenses for illegal immigrants [Re: silversoul7]
    #2087024 - 11/09/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

They aren't scumbags for being wanting a better life, they are scumbags for coming here illegally.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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