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OfflineMithril
Among Other Things

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 160
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Did Ancient philosophers trip out?
    #1334487 - 02/25/03 12:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

While sitting in class, daydreaming about imaginative speculative fancy, I began wondering if these ancient philosphers had ever munched down upon the magickal fungi. I'm sure good'ol Socrates would have if he'd have the chance. Do mushrooms grow naturally in Greece? I know amanita muscaria was used in India 4000BC. Anyone have any info on this?


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Anonymous

Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1334557 - 02/25/03 01:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

of course they did... all the time...

that line in your sig... it was said by Karl Marx.


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OfflineMithril
Among Other Things

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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: ]
    #1334628 - 02/25/03 01:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Read the line more closely.....Think....and consider then, why it is my signature....


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Offlinemikey_
SURFING ON SINEWAVES
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Registered: 08/10/02
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1334687 - 02/25/03 01:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:wink:

but on the question i'm not sure really. something hallucinogenic will grow pretty much wherever philosophers are, and i'm sure it was an important part of some of their work.


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The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates


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Anonymous

Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1334697 - 02/25/03 01:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Probably not.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: mikey_]
    #1334715 - 02/25/03 01:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I would speculate that no, philosophers in general did not trip out. Many times I've read novels or philosophy and felt that I'd had the same revelations on mushrooms, and have therefore suspected that the author trips, but that's only because of my background of mycophilosophy

There are lots of ways to be smart without drugs or even altered states, and I think it's a silly assumption from trippers to assume that theirs is the only way. A friend of mine ignorant of the modern history of magic mushrooms was always like "I'm pretty sure Tolkein ate mushrooms." Because the Hobbit has that same adventure within adventure feeling of a mushroom trip, but at the time of the writing of the Hobbit there was nothing but maybe the odd whisper about magic fungi in esoteric ethnobotany circles.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1334838 - 02/25/03 02:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

J.R.R. Tolkien was a brilliant academic - a philologist, who could devise make-believe languages. He was fairly stodgey and proper, and a most unlikely candidate for psychedelic use. He was not a Huxley.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1334900 - 02/25/03 02:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

THere is a thesis, that Socrates was put to death (for corrupting youth, ostensibly) because he obtained the Sacred Kykeon of the Eleusinian Mystery Rites, and turned his students on, outside of the prescribed ritual. Revealing anything of these Mysteries, which required a lot of money and years of preparation to attend, was punishable by death.

The Kykeon was, according to Hofmann and Ruck, a barley beer to which a decoction of the ergot Claviceps Pasapali had been added. Unlike Claviceps Purpurea, which caused the horrible condition of ergotism (St. Anthony's Fire) - with psychosis, gangarene, convulsions, fever and death, this variety was simply psychedelic. Incidentally, when the black sclerotia of ergot fall to the Earth, they produce a tiny purple mushroom.

The philosopher Plato - Socrates' pupil - wrote of the Realm of Pure Ideas, and of the contents - archetypes. Carl Jung grasped this concept and modernized it, even retaining the term archetype, and the realm of the collective unconscious which is populated by the archetypes. Jungian theory applies rather well to the archetypal images, mythological themes and universalization of cosmic principles that the psychedelic experience teaches. If any of this is historically accurate, then the psychedelic experience from Eleusis, through Socrates and Plato, through the Neoplatonist Plotinus and the Christian Neoplatonist, Dionysus the Areopagite - has seriously influenced early Christian theology down to the present.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineCockyMandrill
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1334908 - 02/25/03 02:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I remember reading somewhere about Socrates, Plato, and many other philosophers from that region (methinks around greece) were users of the magic mushrooms.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1335046 - 02/25/03 03:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmmm interesting post. It's interesting stuff to think and talk about, and it may be true, but it's not impossible to conceptualize these things without drugs. If Jung could, then why couldn't others at other times?

I remember reading somewhere about Socrates, Plato, and many other philosophers from that region (methinks around greece) were users of the magic mushrooms.

This is what I mean.


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Offlineseraphim
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1335052 - 02/25/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yes, right on the money of what i was thinking. this came up today in my jung class, the essence of things, archetypes, plato, and the ancient rites. it's the kind of stuff that's probably unprovable, but has a connecting thread you can tease out in the thought patterns.


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trying to lose the monkey mind a little bit


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Anonymous

Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1335344 - 02/25/03 04:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

hah! i should pay more attention.  :blush:


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OfflineMushyMay
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Registered: 02/19/02
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1336153 - 02/25/03 09:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Drugs have been used throughout history, no one would doubt this. Did the ancients "trip out"? Who knows. I'd say that many of the great minds throughout the history of man have used drugs to enter altered states of consciousness. There are also many who probably never touched drugs. I guess it really depends on the discipline of the philosopher, the time he/she lived and geography.


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: seraphim]
    #1336386 - 02/26/03 01:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As a veteran of 8.5 years of Jungian analysis, under 3 Zurich-trained analysts (one of whom was analyzed by Jolanda Jacobi, who in turn had been analyzed by Freud, Adler and Jung!), I hope your prof includes one of Noll's books: 'The Aryan Christ,' or 'The Jung Cult.' I can attest to many allegations against present-day Jungianism, as both Noll and myself were rejected for analytical training because of the inherent prejudices in said cult.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineseraphim
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1337551 - 02/26/03 12:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

we aren't reading those texts. our prof repeatedly warns us about the dangers of imitating, of beliveing jung has all the answers, of that kind of thing. he likes jungs own quote "i am thanksful i am not a jungian."


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trying to lose the monkey mind a little bit


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1337602 - 02/26/03 12:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Do you guys think that if you could meet and talk with Plato, Aristotle and the likes that it would be a mind-blowing experience?

For example if i would visit ancient greece the nature philosophers there would no doubt regard me as extremely intellectual and knowledgeable by their standards. Sure 500bc they had some truly original ideas but most of what they knew is highschool stuff by todays standards. Or would they still be able to intellectually challenge a reasonably well read modern individual?

Archimedes and the likes was ofcource mathematical geniuses and could probably hold their own with anyone of our modern mathematicians.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1337638 - 02/26/03 12:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It would be a waste of time...  I don't understand Greek :tongue: 


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: MushyMay]
    #1337644 - 02/26/03 12:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That would be Latin :smile:


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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OfflineMithril
Among Other Things

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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1337758 - 02/26/03 01:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No, it would be greek.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Did Ancient philosophers trip out? [Re: Mithril]
    #1338133 - 02/26/03 04:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Greeks speaking Greek? That's crazy!


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