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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

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Our Ancient Past
    #1496663 - 04/26/03 09:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Dynasties... All these ancient peoples were just fucking amazing. Look at the magnificant buildings and art work they built without artificial intelligence (computers, etc). The Greeks knew the world was round and even estimated it's circumfrence, and they were very close. There were real philosphers like Socrates and Aristotle with real wisdom willing to sacrifice their life to teach people.

What the fuck happened?

All the teaching of the Romans and Greeks were destroyed. People began thinking the earth was flat. We invented engines that turn our skies black. We have people like Dr. Phil spewing cliches just for the money.

It makes me sad. I hope that when we die we can go back and forth in time, so I can see these great empires at their finest... something different than the artificial, cold world we have now.


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496668 - 04/26/03 09:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It just seems like that from Oklahoma.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496679 - 04/26/03 09:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"The good old days" are often the product of a bad memory. In ancient Rome, 2/3 of the population were slaves. In ancient Greece, women were kept at home at all times, and had no rights. In ancient Egypt, lying was punishable by death.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: silversoul7]
    #1496697 - 04/26/03 10:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

eh... you have a few good points.

LOL homosexuality and pedophilia also ran rampant in ancient greek and roman track and feild houses.

But wouldn't it be great to see a battle in the colloseum(sp)?


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496731 - 04/26/03 10:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

People began thinking the earth was flat.

Did they all? I doubt it.

We have people like Dr. Phil spewing cliches just for the money.

Yeah right as if this is anything new.

I hope that when we die we can go back and forth in time, so I can see these great empires at their finest... something different than the artificial, cold world we have now.

Bring me back some black plague while your at it. But watch out for the immense hordes of murderous bandits who regularly scour the countryside raping mothers in front of their children and stealing the pathetic crops people struggle to produce out of their sandy rocky soil. Other experiences worth having while you travel back in time:

Sleep in the same room with farting, shitting cattle
Walk down a city street in the dead of the night with no light to scare away the robbers
catch rabies
Get a little cut on your leg and die from it

As for pollution and environmental destruction... Europe used to have lions, Greece used to be covered in huge ancient oak forests, native americans slaughtered giant ground sloths to extinction. Seems to me nothing happened, nothing changed. Socrates never wrote anything down, how do we know anything about him? He may as well be a fictional character.

What's with putting other cultures on pedestals? There has never been and never will be a perfect bunch of people. Everybody's human, so get over it and enjoy what we got, 'cause as far as I can tell nobody's had it better. Well, maybe hunter gatherers if they had an abundant food supply running around their camp easily killed.






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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Dogomush]
    #1496736 - 04/26/03 10:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just saying it would be cool.

geez.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496741 - 04/26/03 10:26 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just saying it would suck and you should avoid sweeping simplifications of our history. We're the best ever, FIN


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Dogomush]
    #1496751 - 04/26/03 10:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Dynasties... All these ancient peoples were just fucking amazing.

egyptians.. which egyptians? Greeks... Romans... these nations have been around for thousands and thousands of years. Their respective golden ages lasted for hundreds of years, then fell away, then re-emerged.. how can you zip through 4000 years of egyptian history with a statement like "the egyptians were real smart."


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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496762 - 04/26/03 10:34 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I agree completely with your statement. I have conversations with an old high school buddy, along these lines, two or three times a month because it relates to so many problems in our day and age. We have boiled the context of the problem down to what we call "the dumbing down of America". This problem is also illustrated in an Old Testament story, The Golden Calf.
Whatever your "religious" beliefs, the story (and our breakthrough theory :smile: ) illustrates several key elements relating to how society adapts, in mass, to social mores and cues which are many times sub conscience, applied in an environment of ignorance. (I stop now to profess my definition of ignorance is not stupidity but rather the absence of information. Stupidity is to continue a belief or action in lieu of overwhelming information to the contrary of a belief or action/activity.) We don't believe that there is a conspiracy directly connected to this "movement" but rather that a lot of people are getting rich on the trend (and elected). No side of politics is responsible but both take advantage.
The phenomenon revolves around a tendency for humans to see the ends without concern for means. The "ends" are the Golden Calf, which in this society has become money, power and influence. Money isn't evil, but the obsession of it, is. There are other Golden Calves as well of course but the tool money is to possess these obsessions seems to be the point of confluence for such phenomenon.
We refer to it as "the dumbing" of America because (not least of which the fact that we made up the word "dumbing", which doesn't exist, yet - in case no one noticed) the rewards for doing the "correct" (a whole debate can crop up at this point which I encourage but will not respond to in this tread) things in life are no longer seen as enough reward to our society, which is thus being encouraged to be more and more self centered, which can only result in catastrophe.
Moving back to religion, Jesus' main contribution to western society (although true Humanism, as professed by the Greeks philosophers, is very close) is the concept that as individuals we treat one another as we would have them treat us. It is that element alone that has brought us the true success we have enjoyed to this point, as a society and as individuals, in my humble opinion.       


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"New shit has come to light..."


Edited by GRTUD (04/26/03 10:35 PM)


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: GRTUD]
    #1496789 - 04/26/03 10:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

we have surpassed the ancients in almost every way
we have lost some things, yes.... but I wouldn't want to go back. now is the time.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: GRTUD]
    #1496795 - 04/26/03 10:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"It is that element alone that has brought us the true success we have enjoyed to this point"

sooo....western society beleives "one another as we would have them treat us"

sooo.....we want people to kill us, rape us, enslave us and steal our land?



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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1496797 - 04/26/03 10:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yes and you are also correct and I couldn't agree more! This however doesn't mean we are finished progressing as a society nor is everything moving in the "correct" direction.


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"New shit has come to light..."


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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1496803 - 04/26/03 10:53 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sooo....western society beleives "one another as we would have them treat us"

sooo.....we want people to kill us, rape us, enslave us and steal our land?




You illustrate my points better than any thing I could write.


--------------------
"New shit has come to light..."


Edited by GRTUD (04/26/03 11:12 PM)


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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

Registered: 09/25/02
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Dogomush]
    #1496837 - 04/26/03 11:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

People began thinking the earth was flat.

Did they all? I doubt it.


Then why did Columbus have such a hard time? Maybe it was just shit schools taught us to glorify some greedy sailor out to make a fortune. We know there were a few people well before columbus who sailed around the world.

BTW, there STILL are people who think the world is flat. :smirk:

Bring me back some black plague while your at it.
why don't you just catch aids today? Or go to a third world country and catch something there

But watch out for the immense hordes of murderous bandits who regularly scour the countryside raping mothers in front of their children

are you talking about the crypts or the bloods? east coast or west coast?

Sleep in the same room with farting, shitting cattle
from what I understand, people sometimes lent out their barns to homeless wanderers. I think maybe a soft bed of hay would be better than a cold sidewalk and yesterday's copy of the new york times found in a trash can.

Walk down a city street in the dead of the night with no light to scare away the robbers

yeah, I'll just walk in a well-lit sidewalk, that way when a gang drives by in a car it'll be easier for them to aim at me.

catch rabies

I'm sure rabies is a walk in the park compared to biological and chemical warfare tactics that could happen at any moment right about now

Get a little cut on your leg and die from it

yeah, now I just have to go to the ER, wait 5 hours and pay a hellacious fee and possibly be put on addictive pain medication that the dr prescribes because he gets money from the drug company everytime someone he prescribed it to refills the subscription

Greece used to be covered in huge ancient oak forests

oh yes, we all know how dangerous a giant oak tree can be. It could just come out of nowhere and kill all our babies! Good thing we chopped em all down!


What's with putting other cultures on pedestals? ... as far as I can tell nobody's had it better

con?tra?dic?tion  (kon'tre-dik'shen)
n.

1.The act of contradicting.
2.The state of being contradicted.
3.A denial.
4.Inconsistency; discrepancy.
5.Something that contains contradictory elements. See above.
 


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496847 - 04/26/03 11:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

""But watch out for the immense hordes of murderous bandits who regularly scour the countryside raping mothers in front of their children

are you talking about the crypts or the bloods? east coast or west coast?""


I hope your not serious, because if you are.......


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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 2,817
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1496854 - 04/26/03 11:15 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


I hope your not serious, because if you are.......




....what? what if I am serious?

which i am


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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496865 - 04/26/03 11:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I hope your not serious, because if you are.......






I think the "robot" theory has taken all of this one's mental clarity. (see "blue/green algae must die") :grin: 


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"New shit has come to light..."


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: GRTUD]
    #1496921 - 04/27/03 12:00 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

you are saying that gang-member kill and rape innocents on a mass scale?


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OfflineMithril
Among Other Things

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: wyldtouch69]
    #1496928 - 04/27/03 12:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

>>We have people like Dr. Phil spewing cliches just for the money
So did the Greeks. They were called sophists and taught greek citizens how to be successful in Athenian society, but only for a price.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: silversoul7]
    #1496950 - 04/27/03 12:19 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

In ancient Egypt, lying was punishable by death

Is this factual? If so, that's kinda cool......but also, not.  :tongue:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (04/27/03 12:34 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Murex]
    #1497171 - 04/27/03 02:34 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well, it's sort of true. The Egyptians didn't actually have a death penalty, but they used banishment as a punishment, which was pretty much the same thing, since few people survived out in the harsh Sahara Desert.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (04/27/03 02:35 AM)


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: silversoul7]
    #1497210 - 04/27/03 03:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Egypt is what the greeks named the place after they came upon it, originally it was Kemit, or more acurately, Kmt. For the most part these past empires are romantisized, and Socretes and Aristotle have nothing on Ken Wilber as far as philosophy goes. But our modern american empire is pretty sinister in comparison to some of these ancient ones. And there is alot of intiguing things about the anienct Kemitian's, like how the hell they cut incredibly smooth blocks out of limestone with copper chizels? it's not conceivibly possible by modern man, so how the hell did they do it? or how did they lift blocks weighing several thousand tons, that not even our most heavy duty moder cranes can lift, to make pyramids?


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Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: silversoul7]
    #1497223 - 04/27/03 03:10 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

ugh if the be-nice policy wasn't enforced...

Then why did Columbus have such a hard time? Maybe it was just shit schools taught us to glorify some greedy sailor out to make a fortune. We know there were a few people well before columbus who sailed around the world.


Last time I checked Columbus sailed because he wanted to go around the world to land on India's coast. This is evidence that he was sure that the world was round. Last time I checked Portugal was a tiny country beside spain, and if indeed the entire portugese population believed that the world was flat (which the existence of Columbus's sail proves isn't true) then I would point out that they are not an accurate cross section of the world, and their silly beliefs count for nothing. But, of course, they knew the spherecal nature of the planet. weak.

why don't you just catch aids today? Or go to a third world country and catch something there

Instead of catching aids I choose to benefit from our medical and educational system. I can wear condoms thanks to the modern-ness of our world. Equating aids today with the plague then is a poor comparison. As for third world countries I'll be sure to buy medical insurance and get vaccines (another thing the ancients didn't have) and if things go wrong, I'll be home in 12 hours thanks to air travel. Weak points dude.

are you talking about the crypts or the bloods? east coast or west coast?

I've never seen either of these, but let me sum up what I do know of them and the people you are comparing them with:

Gangs: Young men born into poverty without fathers who take out agression on random people. And they shoot their guns sideways. This is not a good way to aim, because when you are firing rapidly the kick of the gun will put your aim off to the side, so the second shots go off target unless you're superman. When you aim the gun the right way and target the belly then the kick puts the barrel aiming up at the head which is effective gunmanship. No, I don't own any and I've never shot one in my life.

Saxon-style raiders/hordes: Warriors whose lively hood is raiding coastal villages. Accomplished seamen and experienced swordsmen.

That was a seriously weak comparison man, I can't wait for the next round.

Sleep in the same room with farting, shitting cattle

from what I understand, people sometimes lent out their barns to homeless wanderers. I think maybe a soft bed of hay would be better than a cold sidewalk and yesterday's copy of the new york times found in a trash can.


I wasn't talking about wandering as a traveler. Your point is irrelevant, so I'll answer it quickly: Tents, cheap youth hostels. Infrastructure for tourists.

The situation I was describing with the cattle is that if your cow is your life, as in, an essential piece of food, then you're going to bring it inside and sleep in the same bed with it if it becomes lethaly cold outside. This is where lots of diseases come from. They adapt from cattle et al to the human.

Those were some REALLY weak points, not even on topic.

yeah, I'll just walk in a well-lit sidewalk, that way when a gang drives by in a car it'll be easier for them to aim at me.

Sorry, but no lights are worse than some lights. Your point is funny, but.. ..

I'm sure rabies is a walk in the park compared to biological and chemical warfare tactics that could happen at any moment right about now

I'll believe that when I see it. I know it's not going to happen to me, here. Let me tell you a short fictional story to flesh out my point:

Bill walks in the woods. A tiny fox comes at him foaming at the mouth. He has no rabies vaccine, cause it's the peak of the roman empire. He grabs a how-to book on the subject of really kickass architectural techniques. He attacks the fox with it and kills it, but the fox got a tiny bite on him. He dies of rabies. This doesn't happen today thanks to rabies vaccines.

Story about chemical attacks (this is a true story)

The Canadians are sitting in their trench in WWI. Today is going to be the first use of chlorine gas. The germans release it. One of the Canadian soldiers uses his modern day education and comes up with a way to negate the gas. Everybody pisses on handkerchiefs and hold the piss soaked cloths to their faces. The urine negates the chlorine. They survive.

Another story about these deadly gas attacks:

The gas is released. Everybody puts on their gas masks.

yeah, now I just have to go to the ER, wait 5 hours and pay a hellacious fee and possibly be put on addictive pain medication that the dr prescribes because he gets money from the drug company everytime someone he prescribed it to refills the subscription

I said little cut. I'd either use my emergency room for free, but more likely, as it's a little cut, I'd just rub some alchohol into it, clean it out, and apply some sterile bandages that I bought for two bucks.

oh yes, we all know how dangerous a giant oak tree can be. It could just come out of nowhere and kill all our babies! Good thing we chopped em all down!

I was more pointing out how the edenic culture you believe greece was was actually a war machine who chopped down all their trees to make boats with. This was highlighting the destruction your wonderful cultures wreaked on the environment.

What's with putting other cultures on pedestals? ... as far as I can tell nobody's had it better

That's not a contradiction. I said OTHER cultures on pedestals, and then I said that OUR culture (not an OTHER culture) has it the best out of every culture in the history of culture. So good point I shouldn't raise us up on a pedestal, but it wasn't a contradiction.



Bring on the next round or concede.



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Anonymous

Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Dogomush]
    #1497562 - 04/27/03 11:34 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ugh if the be-nice policy wasn't enforced...





But it is. :smile:

Thank you for remembering.

Cheers, :smile:


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Offlinewyldtouch69
You heard ofhell well i wassent from it

Registered: 09/25/02
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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Dogomush]
    #1497746 - 04/27/03 01:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bring on the next round or concede




I concede.

You've missed the point completely and I refuse to go on nitpicking each other's points. I was just trying to prove that each culture has it's evil side, and we're not the best culture ever. Sure, we have great scientists and computers and blah blah blah... but everything we've based our technology on, the MATH of everything was originally conceived by great mathematicians in ancient societies... who didn't even have any computers. I think figuring out Pi by hand without knowing any other theories and having to figure everything out without a calculater is quite an accomplishment... or even coming up with the pathagoris (sp) theorom, or any of the hundreds of givens and theoroms that exist today, I think that is quite an acheivement. And like someone had stated earlier in the post, building huge pyramids with just man power and simple tools like pulleys, and huge buildings and statues and the colloseum, all without equipment, that's acheivements.

And you think I hate our culture. No I don't. In fact, without all the technologies today, I wouldn't even be able to have this conversation with you. I'm just saying we need to look at our past and see the greatness, try to change our ways a little. That's all.

Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it... or something like that :smirk:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Our Ancient Past [Re: Murex]
    #1498070 - 04/27/03 04:14 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"You've missed the point completely and I refuse to go on nitpicking each other's points."

im pretty sure that your point was how the ancients were more "enlightened" then our modern world.

the ancients werent great. how were women treated in ancient greece?

well, just ta-let-ya-know, before they were married, they were under the control of their father, and after they were married, they were under the control of their spouse.

-they would usually get married in their teens, to a man in his thirties. (mmmmm)
-her husband would be chosen by her father (so...advanced...)


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