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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #1936536 - 09/21/03 12:05 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tasty_Smurf_House said:
whats with those 4th and 3rd densities




Try this thread for a primer - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...&PHPSESSID=

You know what you need best man. If you feel like you need to take a trip... take a trip! Open yourself to the universe and let the universe become to you. Remain peaceful and receptive


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1936582 - 09/21/03 12:29 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I don't like being accused of distorting Truth to fit my egocentric conception of it. YOU are projecting that stuff onto me. Pride? Uh uh.
"Gates of the ego"? Please. Ego is simply one's perspective, one's point of view. "Heart piercing ego death" !!! Did I miss something of a major trip today? When I made a mistake on another post and gnrm23 corrected me, I admitted my error immediately and conceded that he was correct. Now, if you want to believe that GOD anthropomorphized, spoke through you as his prophet, that is your business. If you want to live according to the dictates of your religious experience, that again is your prerogative as long as you understand that subjective religious experiences have no authority over anyone else's religious life. I don't even expect people to believe that I've experienced mystical Union with GOD. You don't have to be convinced of my experiences, and what is important is that such experiences aid me in living my life according to a standard that is described in the objective world in the form of Scriptures. If the particularities of one's religion do not teach universality, but exclusivity, and if exclusivity means condemnation of those who are excluded, then either the religion is a bad one, or someone doesn't understand that the universal Truth is found in certain particularites of human experience.

As for wrestling with religious matters, I think that this statement applies far more to you at this time of your life than it does for me at this point of my life. I have integrated a whole lot more unconscious elements into my personality given my age: sexuality, evil and concommitant suffering, anger and concommitant violence, individuation from the parents, choice of which religious mythos is central, and which are peripheral. Holiness is judged by GOD, and has little or nothing to do with what verbal-mental creed one proclaims. This is just Head knowledge and Throat utterance. The Heart is the inner altar, and it is completely clear to me that a Holy person in a Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Taoist or other faith is more righteous before GOD than a non-holy Christian in name only. Moreover, a truly Holy Christian is NOT superior to a truly Holy person in any other tradition, because true Holiness issues from the same GOD. This attitude will stand up to any argument against it that goes by the name of "correction," because the word "correction" in this case is a lie. It may be an unintentional lie, or an unconscious lie that is spoken with 'good intentions,' but a lie nevertheless. So do not wonder at an inflammatory reaction, since I draw the line against religious intolerance. I find it harder to bear than all other kinds of intolerance because it is rooted in metaphysics, which is prior to anything in our physical life.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1936696 - 09/21/03 01:19 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

So what techniques do you guys use to stay humbl...whoops off topic!! I'm really sorry...
I'm one stupid son of a bitch I'll tell ya that.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: DasKomet]
    #1937288 - 09/21/03 07:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DasKomet said:
Yeah... you could study indian techniques, but you'd prolly be better off goin' to church and having 30 people pray and lay hands upon you in the name of love to give you a cleansing experience... but you have to be open to the experience to allow the energy to move...




The thought of thirty people in a church laying hands on me is more of a scary experience to me.. It would definitely be hard for me to remain open to that experience.. it makes me think of meeting a clown in a dark alley at night and having him start hysterically laughing... :grin:

Thank god I have my inner strengh, and don't need the laying on of hands..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1937324 - 09/21/03 08:18 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1937680 - 09/21/03 01:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You're back to the same obsessive thought. One more time: GOD and man ARE NOT THE SAME BEING. That is called Monism, not Monotheism.
GOD and man CAN BE IN UNION. There is still diversity in Unity. Man and woman can be in Union - Tantric Sexual Union - Holy Matrimony (which derives from One Mother, like the Divine Feminine principle in Tantrism) - and they are still distinct, but the distinction and the Union co-exist, not nullify each other.

BTW, GOD is not 'a being' like we are, GOD is BEING Itself, ABSOLUTE BEING, or the GROUND OF BEING whence all contingent being such as ourselves derive our beinghood - our existence. GOD is not considered to be 'a person' either, which is the logical corollary of not being 'a being.' If, in our human pretentiousness we theologize and pontificate about the nature of GOD, which really is ridiculous - then GOD is at least Personal in 'His' Nature, but to affirm anything at all about what GOD is such as "Light" or "Love" or "Mercy" (Islam has 'the 99 Names'), then we are NOT talking about the GODHEAD which is a term for GOD as 'He' is known ONLY to 'Himself.' NOTHING can be said about the GODHEAD. This is the difference between Cataphatic and Apophatic mysticism - positing attibutes (like Personhood) and the Via Negativa - the Negative Way. The Hindu says "Neti, Neti," which means 'not that, not that."

Man can be in COMMUNION (which was your stated experience) and in Union (which is mysticism proper wherein one's own identity vanishes [one's memory-formed ego], and one's Colorless Awareness, Thoughtless Consciousness, Witness, Spirit, etc. is filled ONLY with GOD's "Uncreated Energies." This term might be unknown to you, but I have lived with Orthodox theology for a long time. The Greek, Russian and Romanian Orthodox Churches may have almost as many adherents as the billion-person Catholic Church.

"...Eastern Christian theology has developed the distinction between the Divine Essence and God's uncreated energies as a means of explaining how God's being is unknowable by man and yet God does communicate Himself to man in a new knowing and a new participation through His energies. The energies are God's mode of existing in relationship to His created world, especially to man. Such a distinction is not often made use of in Western Christianity where God also is believed to be absolute and essentially unknowable. Nevertheless, He does relate Himself to the created order and so is knowable."

There are numerous Biblical references to back up this doctrine. The Essence of the Godhead never manifests in man, but rather the energies (also called virtues, or attributes by some theologians in the tradition). The Taboric Light, as described Biblically about Moses, Jesus and Elijah, is an experience that is sought and realized by Christians in Eastern Orthodoxy.

"The aim of man is union with God...The end of human lives is to attain 'mystical knowledge,' the summit of God's sharing Himself with us.... How can God share His being with man in such a way that man really participates in God's divinity without at the same time becoming God? This is the mystery of theosis, the divinization process of grace whereby the Christian is brought into a loving union with God through the divine energies, and still God retains His complete superessential [utterly Transcendent] being." (Bold & Brackets mine. All quotes from 'The Theology of Uncreated Energies' by George A. Maloney, S.J.)

It may well be that you and I are differing in that you adhere to a Protestant theology that makes no distinctions or allowances for certain types of religious experience. I subscribe to Orthodox Christian thought which does. This argument gives credibility to those who argue that religious experience is always shaped by one's expectations in what is possible, by one's beliefs essentially. I met George Maloney, a Jesuit who specializes in Patristic (Orthodox) theology. He freaked a bunch of old church women when he described his own LSD-mystical experience. So I think we should drop this dialogue at this time. My attitude is that if one's theology doesn't support the possibility of experiences that are genuine and life-enhancing - then change theologies. A so-called Christian fundamentalism that relegates my experiences to the devil's deceptions, for example, is not going to convince me that my whole life has been a lie for the last 30 years.

I'll end this long-winded debate with the words of C.G. Jung and intend them to finalize the Self-GOD division that's got you all bent. These words just 'appeared' to me in Borders yesterday:
"The difference between most people and myself is that for me, the 'dividing walls' are transparent. That is my peculiarity." (Page 355, MDR). Shalom.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1937687 - 09/21/03 01:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Oh well at least I tried.

Be careful, Enter.
Markos may drop a book on you weighing several hundred pounds.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: Jellric]
    #1937700 - 09/21/03 01:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Funny. Do you suppose that humility is synonymous with timidity or passivity? One doesn't have to go about quiet as a church mouse in order to remain humble. Was Jesus humble? Was Jesus humble when he went ballistic and threw over the money-changers' tables in the Temple? Humility is the opposite of pretentiousness - even when it is loud and outspoken. It is completely pretentious for humans to say what GOD is and what GOD is not. Whenever we do say these things, we only speak about GOD in His relation to us monkeys, not about what GOD is in Himself which is unknowable. So arguing against pretentiousness is an act of humility, even if it doesn't appear in the guise of self-effacing meekness. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1937780 - 09/21/03 01:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

No, I don't think humility is synonymous with passivity or timidity. And I don't want to leave the impression that I think your knowledge is a bad thing when it's needed. We should all be so educated.

Anyway thanks for your reply.
Very nice and very concise.  :smile: 


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: Jellric]
    #1937789 - 09/21/03 02:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1937826 - 09/21/03 02:20 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

                                                  :lol:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1937834 - 09/21/03 02:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
...then we are NOT talking about the GODHEAD which is a term for GOD as 'He' is known ONLY to 'Himself. NOTHING can be said about the GODHEAD.




I suscribe to the belief (infinity more than likely) that every division within my body is also filled with just as many divisions, so on and so forth into infinity, and that I am also just a division in an existance that goes up, as well... that there are universes composing me and that those universes are composed of universes... and that the universe as we know it is just one small division in an even bigger structure..

I really don't believe that, in some universe inside me, if there are intelligent beings there, that they would ever be capable of understanding me, as I am only known to myself, just as I would never be able to understand the structure that I am a part of...

I guess chaos theory and fractals deal a lot with this..

Alas, a lot of my thoughts and beliefs I came about myself or through other mediums, so I don't have the terminology and all the peers that have started out at the same knowledge level through this structured belief, as you have.. I almost wish I had, actually, but I am sort of glad that I haven't.. there are benefits and disadvantages of having a structured belief and thought system, I guess..

But anyway, thanks for your words, man! :grin: I need to go and check if I have rated you your five shrooms yet...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1938058 - 09/21/03 04:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Look at a diagram of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life superimposed over the image of a human body, or a detailed diagram of the Hindu or Buddhist chakra systems. All of these systems say what you're saying, so it would be helpful to you if you got some of their lingo down. The Kabbalistic spheres or the chakras are 'portals' through which specific kinds of Consciousness emerge into the 'human universe' which is the Microcosm, from the wider universe which is the Macrocosm. These 'energies' or 'levels of Consciousness' overlap in us, forming our bodies, souls and spirits.




--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1938078 - 09/21/03 04:17 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting picture..

It is funny that you should mention the chakras and "levels of consciousness", because I was just studying links from Shroomism on chakras, and noticed the attributes that each of the seven chakras is said to have, and instantly noticed the connection between that and the book I revere, Handbook to Higher Consciousness (by Ken Keyes Jr), and I have been forming ideas on that for a post..

The first link that Shroomism gave in that chakra thread was by far the best one, and it identified the first chakra with security and survival, the second one with sensation, the third one with power, the fourth one love and compassion...

Handbook to Higher Consciousness describes seven levels of consciousness, and they go in the same order, each concerned with the same things, although the book focused on reprogramming your mind to work our way up the consciousness levels.. I am sure a lot of his sources come from the chakras and so forth...

The thing is, though, is that I become aware of some information, and then I start to understand the concept and how it connects with say this piece of information and these thoughts, and the picture, my perspective, I guess, gets a little bit broader in scope, and then I have all these different groups of information, and then the connections between THEM start to become apparent...

I think the only way that I have kept my sanity is that this has always been a gradual process, I barely trip and haven't learned too much at any given time.. I always look at a way to utilize the information in my life and actually push growth of myself... Nowadays my head is quite clear, and it is quite clear a lot more often than it ever has been..

I just don't know whether or not to attribute it to having full function over all my operations, as I am bascially an adult now, or that and this evoultion thing.. heh.

Anyways, I am interested in your beliefs and all of that.. any recommendations for someone who doesn't want to take on a belief structure as his own, but rather utilize the thoughts as part of of his own discoveries? I always try to take on the essence of the experience while trying it out (don't know if that makes sense... but I guess temporarily conducting myself as if that was my thing, if you know what I mean)...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1939946 - 09/22/03 07:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

My "beliefs" as you put it are a result of having read the world religion's scriptures, plus my own immediate experiences plus the effort to conduct some of the disciplines of those religions. I saw the virtues in celibacy/monogamy, in solitude, in silence, in finding GOD in one's Sacred Heart. Many of the commonalities of the religions entered into my belief, but long ago I Decided that the Mysteries that remained in subtle or mythological spheres of Reality took manifestation - 'in the flesh' - in Christianity. For me, Christianity is not separate from its Jewish origin, perhaps because I'm a Jewish Christian. Jesus the Christ is the Metatron of the Kabbala for me, as well as the Light found in the Scriptures of the other faiths regardless of what they call That Light. I wish to be conformed to the inner image of Christ, because that image is Eternal, and Eternal Life depends upon our union and identity with the Light of Christ. One cannot 'test' this as a 'system,' one must enter fully into It, and allow It to enter fully into you, if you are to be transformed by it. It's the Way, the Tao, the Dharma on a universal level, but it is Jesus as the universal IN the particular. Without Deciding on ONE particularity and committing to a relationship, nothing important happens. In the human sphere, without a deep relationship with another, one cannot Individuate (in a Jungian sense) either. So, one continues to flirt, to dabble, but without committment to ONE there will be no transformation. Digging a bunch of shallow holes is not going to lead one to [living] water at the depths. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1939952 - 09/22/03 07:58 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"egoless people have very strong personailites"
(from BE HERE NOW)
~
~
per gnrmi chastising with the rod of correction :wink:
"i'm always right and i never lie, so vote for me, george leroy tirebiter, for people's commissioner!"
(from a political ad heard on a radio tuned to a parallel reality, courtesy firesign theater: "don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers"
~
~
hmmm, "massive LSD trip"... is that 150 ug or is that 1500 ug :wink: ???


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1941154 - 09/22/03 04:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i dont know yet... i havent really had acid before cuz the shit i got before was bunk so..... im thinking maybe 2 or 3 hits but im not sure. whats a good dosage for a really good trip?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1941166 - 09/22/03 04:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"...You must be WAY out there Pastor!"
"I'm high all right *[crackle]*...but not on false drugs. I'm high on the real thing - powerful gasoline, a clean windshield and a shoe shine. Over..."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1941397 - 09/22/03 05:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Digging a bunch of shallow holes is not going to lead one to [living] water at the depths. Peace.   




What about many holes dug right next to each other that each reach almost as deep? :grin:

By the way, I am not referring to your actual beliefs, I am referring to how they are structured and are identified and so forth, not the actual experiences or anything.. you say Light of Christ, I say acknowledging the fine energy that runs through everything.. you know what I mean?

What I am saying is that I think a lot of the same beliefs are held between us, just that mine came from only personal experience and some references, that there isn't some system to help accelerate learning... I am the Observer outside of the systems figuring things out on his own, while you are more of the guy who had the knowledge all presented to you and had an easier means of communication when you experienced these things..
:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a massive LSD trip in order? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1941834 - 09/22/03 07:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I used to fancy myself as the philosopher of religion, sitting on the hub of a wheel whose spokes were each a different religion, and I surveyed all of them, borrowing at my whim. All that position did was to expand my ego and fill it with all manner of knowledge.

The only way for theosis to occur, is for one's ego to diminish, not inflate, and to recognize both outwardly and historically, and inwardly and psychospiritually, Who one's Master is. The Light of which I speak may be referred to as 'Uncreated Energy,' but That Energy is not an impersonal 'beam' or a 'field effect.' It is GOD in His immanence - the Divine Presence that suffuses space-time, but that is separate from space-time. The Presence is Living, Aware, Compassionate and Creative in the sense that [S]He sustains the forms of creation in each moment, and prevents the universe from collapsing into non-existence. I am not talking about prana or chi or li or a vital or astral subtle-substance. I am talking about the metaphysical infra-structure of creation, which includes our human existence. I am talking about the Divine Intelligence or Logos, Whose Ideas manifest as creation.

Now...it is our acknowledgement of this Presence in prayer, in professing the Reality of this Presence that sets up a field-effect in our lives. It is this acknowledgement, recognition, realization, experience or simple faith in the Presence that begins the life of the Spirit, which in turn begins to effect everything in our lives. This 'turning to' the Spirit 'constellates' all kinds of wonderful things around us on all planes of our existence: physical, psychic and spiritual. We seem to attract good folks, and repel bad folks. We may lose friends, spouses, relatives, but those beings will be replaced by more loving, kind, understanding ones. Animals, even wild ones, may draw closer in St. Francis fashion. One's needs and even desires may materialize for one: the perfect house and suddenly the availability of funds for a 20% down payment; a soul mate may appear - perhaps one that doesn't meet your preconceived image or notion, but another equally fine or better. When the inevitable losses of life occur: a car that has finally died to a loved one who has - a deep accepting calm remains constantly in the background of one's loss or grief - a calm that can be focused upon where it seems to be felt - in one's Heart Center. Coincidences - Meaningful Coincidences - called Synchronicities by Jung, but called miracles for a whole lot longer, become the Heavenly Manna. Life would not be truly worth living for me in their absence, it would just be
'same s**t, different day,' til I became depressed, addicted or suicidal. Daily miracles/synchronicities/answers to prayer keep me going - enthusiastically! (the root being enthusiazein: inspired and entheos: in God)
"Man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD," is how the Good Book puts it. Hope this answers your questions sufficiently - it's all here, hope you can hear it. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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