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InvisibleShroomismM
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Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR
    #2134160 - 11/25/03 04:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lord of the Rings.
Books or movies. Preferably both.

What's your take? What do you get from it?

Are there any parallels from it and your current reality?

Which character do you associate most with?

What characters remind you of certain people in your life and why?

What specific parts of the stories do you derive great meaning from? What meaning is that?

Any general revelations, insights, epiphanies, etc that you arrived at?

Anything?


I'll post mine when I'm not so tired.. it's going to take a lot of thought and effort.
Plus I want to see what other people say before I start spouting stuff off  :smirk:

 


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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2134170 - 11/25/03 04:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i had an epiphany.... I really wanna fuck an elven girl. And i've had a revelation....elves dont exist. DAMMNIT!!!!
I'd also really like to fuck a grey girl, like chiana from Farscape, but thats another thread entirely :wink:
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2134177 - 11/25/03 04:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Elves exist.. you just have to look in the right places. :wink:
And they are gooooood in bed. 


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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2134197 - 11/25/03 04:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i know, i saw a magical elf city in the distance on my first trip, but sadly we never made it there, and that is not the realm of my everday experience.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2134310 - 11/25/03 08:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Shroomism, all I can think about it is an mmorpg that i used to play called Lineage. But nonetheless the game has many things labeled after stuff inside of that movie. I do not know which came first though. Anyway it's about things that happened in the past i suppose. It's kind of like an old story. I can be an elf if i want. My arrows of self guidance has now led me on to a new path of enlightenment.

Peace.


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Droz]
    #2134358 - 11/25/03 09:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

" i had an epiphany.... I really wanna fuck an elven girl. And i've had a revelation....elves dont exist. DAMMNIT!!!!
I'd also really like to fuck a grey girl, like chiana from Farscape, but thats another thread entirely "

Just go and smoke some DMT and i am sure you will find what your lookin for.

As for everything else wasnt LOTR all just based on world war 1 in the trenches.



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2134446 - 11/25/03 10:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I haven't read it yet, but you might find it interesting.

http://www.isn1.net/cosoalinmisi.html



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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: EvilGir]
    #2134451 - 11/25/03 10:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

EGO LOSS AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS

A few years back, I was down at the creek. A buddy had given me some Tropicallis. I was use to dosing with Cubensis. Man, I overshot my dose, bigtime. After about 10 minutes, I knew something was going to be different about this trip. As soon as it really kicked in, I felt death creep upon me. Ego death. I asked my buddy to take me to the Emergency Room. I thought I had been poisoned by an unknown mushroom. It took me a while to realize this was poison/psilocybin poisoning. Enouph to kill the personality. Then I lost all control of my muscles. Went limp and died. Time stopped. I couldn't breath. And thats when it happened. This world dissolved away as if it was sugar crystals and water had been thrown accros my vision. I saw galaxies/stars/visions I won't get into for personal reasons. Then I was alone. In a white void for a million years. Well, it seemed like I was stuck in a time warp and I thought maybe this is what purgatory is like. When I finally came too, It seemed like my past was a dream, no Someone else's dream. I had died, then was reborn. A new personality that can recall the dreams/memories of the old personality.

Remember when Gandalf defeats his enemy. Then time stops, his personality dies, and he is reborn, so to speak. During ego loss you feel as if you are dying. Your mind dies. Then it is reborn or reincarnated. But not into another body. You still retain your old vessel with a new and improved upgraded personality. Memories are retained and forgoton ones recognized. The best analogy I have seen lately to describe what i am refering to is in The Lord of the Rings. If you are familiar with the story, Gandalf the grey experiences this during the second book. When he defeats his enemy he falls upon the mountainside and is "strained out of time and thought". When I saw the movie I was like, " NO, this can't be. That is exatly what I saw." For Gandalf time stops and "each day was as long as a life age of the earth." That is exactly how it felt in the "warp bubble". Like each second was a whole day. I thought time had stoped and I was in some kind of pergatory or something. Remember I was dying, or at least I thought so. LOLOLOL> NO I was not dying I was being reshuffled so to speak. Then all of a sudden Gandalf feels "life in him again". He says he was sent back to do his task. YES> I SEE THAT NOW>
After Gandalf defeats his enemy, who BTW later becomes his ally, as the white horse; Gandalf is no longer Gandalf the grey. Now Gandalf is Gandalf the white. A new personality yet he still retains the memories of Gandalf the grey. But those memories just don't quite feel like his anymore. They feel like the memories of a dream. Also, notice that it is truly a new personaliy. We do not see Gandalf "smokin the hobbits leaf" anymore. He doesn't need to. He is what I like to call "perma-tripped". The old medicine men do not have to ingest a plant after years and years of use anymore. Eventually, the spirtis tell them how to attain the same states without using the plants. I think this is how eastern people developed their practices of meditation to reach divine states. The power plants taught them how to do it.

That was the best analogy I have seen lately to better describe what ego loss is like. I believe Tolkeen experienced ego loss many times. LATER>


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: medicinebag]
    #2134461 - 11/25/03 10:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That was the best analogy I have seen lately to better describe what ego loss is like. I believe Tolkeen experienced ego loss many times. LATER> 





You remember in the beginning when they found that patch of mushrooms that looked to be growing out of some dung? Remember how excited they were? :stoned:


Maybe gandolf ate some of those before entering the mines.

:thumbup: 


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: medicinebag]
    #2134581 - 11/25/03 11:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The old medicine men do not have to ingest a plant after years and years of use anymore. Eventually, the spirtis tell them how to attain the same states without using the plants.

I wish more people would catch on to this.  :thumbup:


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2134677 - 11/25/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Aha! My favorite book and movie! :smile:

The books are truely amazing. I have read them all about seven times through now, and they were actually one of the first real "novels" I ever read (I think when I was 14).

What's my take? It's the most perfect description of the spirit of fantasy and adventure. There are too many relations to list. As far as the story itself goes, the theme of growth or becoming of age is very strong and probably sings out to most individualist people :smirk:

Are there any parallels from it and your current reality?
Only that I feel like I'm on a constant adventure  :wink:

Which character do you associate most with?
Frodo. My cat's name was Frodo, too :smirk:

What characters remind you of certain people in your life and why?
Hmm. Currently, lets have some fun and say Sauron & Wraiths = George W. & his cabinet! :lol:

What specific parts of the stories do you derive great meaning from? What meaning is that?
There are so many, but...
Tom Bombidil...he is neither vital to the LotR story nor does he play a big part, but there's meaning there! Here is a creature who obviously has untold power...but who sits aside from the world. :wink:


If anyone hasn't read the books, do so now!  :smirk:


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2135600 - 11/25/03 07:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know if you agree with me but I see parallels with the use of power and society - the struggle between using it for selfish ends and self less ends. Power to the few or power to the many. I think a lot of people who get into power are overcome by the possiblities for personal use and become removed from the realities of individual peoples existence and from how their actions effect others. These people are at the head of big organisations and in government. Unfortunately the people who are attracted to and work for these positions are often the ones who have the greatest personal need for power, and may have to be given to questionable ethics and kniving (smeggle/golham types?) in the first place in order to successfully arrive at the top.
That's as deep as my analysis goes b/c I haven't read the books and it has been a long time since I saw the movies.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2136117 - 11/25/03 10:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Lord of the Rings.
Books or movies. Preferably both.

What's your take? What do you get from it?

Are there any parallels from it and your current reality?

Which character do you associate most with?

What characters remind you of certain people in your life and why?

What specific parts of the stories do you derive great meaning from? What meaning is that?

Any general revelations, insights, epiphanies, etc that you arrived at?

Anything?


I'll post mine when I'm not so tired.. it's going to take a lot of thought and effort.
Plus I want to see what other people say before I start spouting stuff off  :smirk:




The picture below answers all the questions above...


 


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2136444 - 11/26/03 12:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hah, Great Pic. I thougt something was Rank in Denmark. later.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: medicinebag]
    #2136614 - 11/26/03 02:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nice and stoned and in the mood.
I get many things from the books and movies. The books are of course no less than brilliant, and the movies, however condensed the stories, are also amazing.
I do see the similarities between the dark tower of baraddur, sauron, and his quest for world domination, parallel some things occuring now and that have occured in the past, regarding specifically the illuminati and the nwo. There can also be seen a spiritual element to it, as gandalf and others aptly demonstrate through alchemy, 'magic', dimensional travel, psychic abilities, etc. One could see a similarity to this struggle between good and evil, as symbolic of life from the third to fourth dimension. The final battle between light and dark..leading to transcendence.
There is just about every character in the books as you will find wandering the astral planes and physical reality. There is just about every representation covered.
Tolkien studied much celtic mythology and even created a new language for his writings. They resonate with a message that effects us on every level of our being. He managed to create a fictional universe that almost identically reflects the nature of our predicament. And what is the final message? Good will prevail in the end, that honor, love, peace, and light is the way.
There is also an eerie similarity to some battles the likes of which are occuring in the spiritual planes as we speak.


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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2141941 - 11/28/03 12:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What's your take? What do you get from it?

The story is a struggle between good and evil. That was Tolkien's intent.

Are there any parallels from it and your current reality?

Only those that exemplify struggles between good and evil.

Which character do you associate most with?

I am Samwise Gamgee. My wizard act is a ruse.

What characters remind you of certain people in your life and why?

Let's not go there.

What specific parts of the stories do you derive great meaning from? What meaning is that?

My favorite part is when Eowyn slays the head Nazgul. I believe there is a time to stand and fight. That book has influenced my life heavily in that regard. I am REALLY looking forward to seeing that on film!

Any general revelations, insights, epiphanies, etc that you arrived at?

None really.

But it should be told that the death and resurrection of Gandalf the Grey into Gandalf the White was a deliberate attempt by to Tolkien to portray the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Most people do not know this but Tolkien was a devout Christian and thought his story would lead people to the Truth.

This is juxtaposed against C.S. Lewis' works where his analogies were unintentional, including the death and resurrection of Aslan the Lion in the Narnia series.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2142021 - 11/28/03 01:19 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I've read the book, as well as the Hobbit and Silmarillion (sp?)
great books all of them, movies are faithful for the most part

"Are there any parallels from it and your current reality?"

well, as it relates to current reality, I think people are getting the impression that a great evil exists in the world and it's "over there". there is such a clear delineation between good and evil. it's simplistic but comforting because no one wants moral ambiguity in uncertain times.

"Which character do you associate most with?"

the character I associate with most is Gollum, twisted beyond recognition by a power I can't control or understand. on my better days I associate with Tom Bambadil (who was, sadly, left out of the movie) - the whimsical ancient soul of the forest. not an individual character per se, but a vehicle through which Middle Earth expresses its very spirit.

"What characters remind you of certain people in your life and why?"

the hobbits remind me of childhood friends I'll never see again. the ents remind me of certain tree spirits I've communed with up in the mountains.

"Any general revelations, insights, epiphanies, etc that you arrived at?"

no one can be trusted with the ring



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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2142365 - 11/28/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

But it should be told that the death and resurrection of Gandalf the Grey into Gandalf the White was a deliberate attempt by to Tolkien to portray the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Most people do not know this but Tolkien was a devout Christian and thought his story would lead people to the Truth.

Tolkien certainly understood the underlying archetypes of religions, and he was a Christian, but hardly devout or dogmatic by any standards. I believe the ressurection of Gandald is allegorical to MANY ressurection myths. Tolkien was one of the greatest myth and folklore experts to ever live, so I seriously doubt he restricted his story structure to that of a Christian viewpoint. And CERTAINLY it was not intended to lead people to the Christian religion, per se.

The Lord of the Rings goes wayyyyyy beyond being a Christian allegory, thats why it took the man over a decade to write it. Peace.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: chunder]
    #2142839 - 11/28/03 08:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

His writings in LOTR were heavily influenced by celtic and pagan mythology.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Spiritual and Philosophical implications behind LOTR [Re: Shroomism]
    #2142981 - 11/28/03 08:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

shroomism, I noticed that myself when I was reading it. Of course pretty much *all* fantasy writing is highly influenced by celtic and pagan mythology.

From what I've read, Tolkien was quite a Luddite.
“The savage sound of the electric saw is never silent wherever trees are still found growing. Every tree has its enemy, few have an advocate. In all my works, I take the part of trees as against all their enemies.” -Tolkien

That quote offers some insight into what he was going for with the Ents. For quite a long time I've had a fantasy of ancient trees awakening then marching to smash the Pentagon, or the White House. Wouldn't that be cool? heheh.

*Tolkien never owned a television or a washing machine. He was a confirmed luddite, rejecting refrigerated food and cars. “How I wish the ‘infernal combustion’ engine had never been invented,” he said. When asked about his life, he responded, “I am in fact a hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe and like good plain food… I go to bed late and get up late.” In an enlightening letter written to his son, Christopher, in 1943, Tolkien vented his frustration with government and the industrial age, “My political opinions lean more and more to anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs)… There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power stations.” It is this last statement and others like it that lead one to wonder if Tolkien would have approved of today’s “elves”—those of the Earth Liberation Front. It is a fact that Tolkien was deeply troubled by the impact of modern industry and technology on the world’s environment, especially “the lunatic destruction of the physical lands which Americans inhabit.”*

I got that quote from here http://www.earthfirstjournal.org/efj/feature.cfm?ID=159&issue=v22n6


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