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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it
#4330216 - 06/23/05 08:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sages,
The matter is this: I've been in a philosophical/spiritual Judas Cradle for months now and I'd like your opinions and considerations to perhaps help me break the deadlock
THE ISSUE: I'm confronted with dangerous misinformation regarding the Witching Herbs (datura, belladonna, angels trumpets etc) all over the web. There literally is nothing truly good online that has been exhaustively researched like such a matter should be. These herbs are highly toxic. To get a strong visionary state from them is to poison yourself to a significant degree. In addition to that the visionary state evoked is one that can be profoundly unhealthy psychologically.
On one hand people are hospitalized and DYING mostly because of uninformedness and dangerous misinformation, on the other hand providing solid information might encourage some to seek the experience and come to harm because of that.
Should I write a Witching Herbs FAQ
I've got a treasure-trove of well-researched information. It would add to the collective body of information as it bundles many sources of independent information with dots never before connected. Now let's look at the deadlock:
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PHILOSOPHICAL: this information can save lives but it can also take lives. It dismisses fables and factoids for facts, but this very safety enhancement might fascinate lure people into it which otherwise would not have happened. Should I be the one to let truth prevail or let misinformation persist. In either way I'm taking on a responsibility, no quickies here.
ETHICAL: Is it ethically justifyable to unleash something onto the world that has great potential to save or harm people?
SPIRITUAL: The deliriant state evoked by the Tropane Herbs has very sinister sides. It is the basis of the medievel notion of Hell. I have yet to find true Evil but I saw quite some Dark Sights. Should I guard the gate to Hell so none will enter or give information about what lies beyond and how people can get there?
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Sages, please shine your light on this matter. Vote, discuss, get specific. What would YOU do to break this Deadlock if you were facing it yourself?
.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4330284 - 06/23/05 08:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think I would like to purchase one of the first copies of this work.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4330292 - 06/23/05 08:43 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Doesn't your avatar give your answer?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4330298 - 06/23/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Solanaceous plants such as datura, henbane, and nightshade are some dangerous shit. In a recent thread I detailed my older brother's experience with datura: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...e=2&fpart=1 (at bottom of page) Posting information that might encourage their use is very tricky. You might save a life...or end several. This is a responsibility that should be carefully weighed. There are a lot of 18 yr old kids that come here looking for encouragement to use such plants because they are easy to find, and are often seen, mistakenly, as a substitute for marijuana or LSD. Post some incorrect info on LSD....no real biggie because it is non-toxic...at worst a bad trip results. Post incorrect info about datura...and people might die.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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ajna
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4330897 - 06/23/05 11:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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personally i think your information would do more good than harm, but i do see your problem. is benefiting thousands of lives worth ruining even one? maybe not.
perhaps you could host the information, and take email requests so that you can monitor who has access to it? obviously this would mean more work for yourself, but there might be an option there somewhere.
or perhaps the witches book of spells is not for the eyes of man?
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the_phoenix
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: ajna]
#4331131 - 06/24/05 01:13 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Knowledge to the people. Do not make light of the risks, but do not overstate them either. Balance. Write it, as something that is meant to harmonize knowledge.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: ajna]
#4331146 - 06/24/05 01:20 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think I would like to purchase one of the first copies of this work.
Quote:
perhaps you could host the information, and take email requests so that you can monitor who has access to it? obviously this would mean more work for yourself, but there might be an option there somewhere.
I've already decided that if i do it, i will make it public domain/free of charge since semi-closed systems offer fake security anyway. Someone will put it on their P2P and voila.
So no: if I do it it will be for the Shroomery, Erowid etc.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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spudamore
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4331280 - 06/24/05 02:36 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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tell all you are not responsible with what people do with the info, there are always going to be those that are going to listen and those that are going to do it anyways and use without such vaulable info. but if you get to those that going to do it anyways better for them to know what they are getting themself into before hand
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: spudamore]
#4331282 - 06/24/05 02:38 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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like i said in the pm, you aren't the world's babysitter so don't try to censor information that you think is dangerous. We are people to who can make choices. evolution will weed out the people who make the uninformed stupid ones
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Adden
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4331287 - 06/24/05 02:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you don't write it, how many lives will be lost to misinformation?
People will do what they do. Might as well offer what you've got. And you've got a lot of knowledge, so share.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: spudamore]
#4331326 - 06/24/05 03:14 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
you are not responsible with what people do with the info
Quote:
you aren't the world's babysitter so don't try to censor information that you think is dangerous.
If it were that simple my deadlock would have lasted days, not months. I feel I am responsible and its not censoring information, its creating a new body of information on a subject that takes lives.\
You can basically compare this to the following:
We all know there are k001 b0mb b00kz on the Internet. If you were a pyrotechnician would you choose to publish a manual on how to make a relatively safe 1 oz fireworks salute to the standards of the art? You know some recreational boomers will be saved by it but that others will shrug their shoulders, screw it into a 2" steel pipe and have their arm ripped off their bodies by an endcap at 100ft.
See the dilemma? Irresponsibility is out there, but you'd still create something inherently dangerous and subject to abuse. It will be safer than most of the stuff that floats around but it still explores an area that is really -really- best avoided alltogether. Hard call!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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spudamore
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4331337 - 06/24/05 03:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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but you are still not responsible for that person taking the plant.
even if they bother to look for information and guides, its better for them to be fully informed for what they are getting themselves into than not.
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4331341 - 06/24/05 03:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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the only thing you would be responsible for is the accuracy of the information you provide. What people decide to do with that information is up to them. My CS professors teach me about network security. If I get busted for breaking into the campus servers, its not their fault. Not a great example though... But if you have information you want to share, you should definitely share it. Its no ones fault if they decide to abuse it. And I have a feeling the information you would be writing about datura would not be in any way promoting the use, if anything, scaring people away.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: fearfect]
#4332467 - 06/24/05 12:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, yea. I am a total supporter of the freedom of honest wisdom and information. I am also on the side, that you can safe more lifes with honest and balanced information, then you will, by keeping it for your own. As a solution i would consider a big header, where you will share all that concerns you had, before publishing.
And yes, of course, if someone has to experiment with datura-stuff, and he's halfways pleased with his life so far, he should use the MOST CARE he can think of, because this thing can not only totally destroy his life, it also can add so much pain on what he once saw as his life, that he would wish, he was dead immediately !
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: BlueCoyote]
#4333043 - 06/24/05 03:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wonder if autos would be a good example. If I invent the auto knowing people my get drunk and drive them and kill innocent people, should I not share this knowledge with the world?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Icelander]
#4333363 - 06/24/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, the government should post the plans for hydrogen bombs on the net...we want freedom of course...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4333388 - 06/24/05 05:21 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I think that info has already been published.
This issue isn't quite as large. But here of course I would opt for more info. If someone took a plant substance and killed themselves, that would be it. They couldn't take hundereds of thousands of people with them. So... maybe this is a little different.
What do ya think?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Icelander]
#4333405 - 06/24/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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No it hasn't...you can get a good idea...but many crucial details are missing. A plunger bomb can easily be made, but a fusion bomb is another matter. It would be bad to find out that some dumb kid wanting to get stoned keeled over after applying a flying ointment made too strong...worse yet...law enforcement shut the site down because of such an occurrance. Believe me...if cops want to find a reason to do it they will.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4333417 - 06/24/05 05:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Then why is Erowid up and running still. You can kill yourself with many of the substances they talk about.
I guess we have to always live in fear of the athorities. But sometimes pushing the limits is ok.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Icelander]
#4333430 - 06/24/05 05:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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True. http://www.erowid.org/plants/datura/datura.shtml I just generally would not encourage anyone to use these substances because I have seen what they do...and what is the use if they make you sick and act out of control?
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4333445 - 06/24/05 05:43 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know this Hue, and I believe it. Still I would like to be able to find accurate information on this plant and then decide if it's dangerous for me or not. With accurate info I can do that. I know that there are a certain number of dufus people out there who won't think it through. And that's too bad that somewhere along the line they didn't learn how to think very well. I guess it's survival of the fittest.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Icelander]
#4333454 - 06/24/05 05:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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In that case I reverse my opinion.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Icelander]
#4333458 - 06/24/05 05:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Intentional misuse by teenagers who eat seeds, drink tea and/or smoke cigarettes made of Jimson Weed has been reported by many authors.(1,5,6,13) Although most use is sporadic, there is often clustering or increased use around press reports which increase interest in the drug[ BUT DO NOT EMPHASIZE THE RISKS.] Jimson Weed is used in over-the-counter asthma preparations: Asthmador, Barter's Powder, Kinsman's Asthmatic Powder, Green Mountain Asthmatic Compound, and Haywood's Powder, often abused by teens. The American Association of Poison Control Centers' Toxic Exposure Surveillance System reported 318 cases of Jimson Weed poisoning in 1993.(5)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Psiloman
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4333464 - 06/24/05 05:50 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I tottaly see your point Wiccan Seeker!
Let me put my pebble in the discussion but let me warn you: Im far away from being a Sage,and the only Sage i know was in my mother's herb rack !.
Tropanes are already claming many lives.Many teens know them as moonflower (Datura) many try it and people end up in hospital or dead.The silly part of it is that many people that have been led to hospitals and scuh (cant speak for the dead) post experiences in Erowid,which is indicative that they know of Erowid,they know its warnings,they know where to get information from ,still they manage to get poisoned. Considering this i can safely say that the information out there is not doing a great job dettering people from trying it.
Maybe we need some new blood,some new line of information floating around that could make people reconsider. People already know of those plants,and if they know of places where they can find the document you might make they know were to search for information.Give them more information! Im quite sure that you will analyze the dangers and it would be a far cry from reviving "the fad of tropanes" or anything similar...I trust it you it will be a guide that could be summerized in "Thats conscise information on why to AVOID TOTALLY those plants"
Of course stupid people that disregard any kind of warning exist.Those people usually have a tragic end ,no matter what the means were : cars,drugs,lethal STD,radioactivity etc etc. You simply cant help it ,unless you already have made a whole body uniform with the sign of the Datura flower,and past midnight you mask yourself,take your heart pills to withstand heart stopping stupidity you will encounter,arm yourself with pilocarpine and ride the Daturamobile to save every single dump person in the world. Soon you would have to extend your activities to supplying condoms -always masked and in full Daturaman uniform- to careless sex crazed people, reteaching driving to careless drivers,unstick the genitals of some poor people of the Hoover hose,bitchslap kindly but strictly all those who eyeball Research chemicals and so on and so forth. Thats some serious bussiness!
Go on and write it.You have the wits,you know the dangers,and offering such a passage here could be THE reference for all those "can i ingest tropanes" questions. By the way,some people choose to smoke those plants,will you include a chapter on it ,its dangers etc etc?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Psiloman]
#4333564 - 06/24/05 06:39 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doesn't your avatar give your answer?
were philosophy the only factor there would be no deadlock: JUST SAY KNOW goes way deep with me.
If i write it it wont be an Anti-manuscript. It would be one who intensely disrecommends some forms of use. I'd try to make it exhaustive.
Quote:
By the way,some people choose to smoke those plants,will you include a chapter on it ,its dangers etc etc?
it would've been a sorry-ass FAQ if it didn't
Up until now you've all been very clear, 15:1 say they would write it. I hope this thread progresses.. it might free me from my deadlock. At the moment I lean towards writing it.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4333631 - 06/24/05 07:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wiccan, because of this post you made a while back (that I have bookmarked):
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3044784#Post3044784
I decided NOT to try the Henbane that I had purchased, and your descriptive first-hand experience/words made me come to my decision.... I threw it out, even though I was very curious about it's effects....
Curiousity will prolly~ end up killing this cat, but not with deathly visions caused by a tropane containing plant - and the knowledge I learned about it's possible effects....
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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crunchytoast
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: PhanTomCat]
#4334937 - 06/25/05 02:09 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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there's this theory that humans make decisions in a few seconds and spend the rest of the time rationalizing the decision they've already made.
just some food for thought. this is s&p right?
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: crunchytoast]
#4334963 - 06/25/05 02:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, it is a theory that indecisiveness is a prerequisite stage to a predetermined un-rationalized choice....?
HHhhhmmmmmm....
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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crunchytoast
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: PhanTomCat]
#4335038 - 06/25/05 02:48 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i'm not sure what you're saying, it's gone over my head (not hard to do)
i'm arguing that indecisiveness is an illusion
i'm saying the rationalization part of making a decision is about discovering what the reasons are for a decision that's already been made, not that there's no reasons for the decision
and hey why not skip the rationalization part? why would a person need to know the reasons for everything? curiosity or anxiety, i think. anxiety is skip-worthy.
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: crunchytoast]
#4335044 - 06/25/05 02:49 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
there's this theory that humans make decisions in a few seconds and spend the rest of the time rationalizing the decision they've already made.
I saw it as a member and even more as a mod: people who ask a question but really seek resonance with their decision.
This however is a case of true deadlock, even though I woke just now still leaning toward the YES side
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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crunchytoast
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4335061 - 06/25/05 02:57 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I saw it as a member and even more as a mod: people who ask a question but really seek resonance with their decision.
This however is a case of true deadlock
deep, man.
Quote:
even though I woke just now still leaning toward the YES side
i remember this movie, ghost dog way of the samurai. there's this one part where it says, the samurai makes every decision in the span of 7 seconds. not saying you should do it; just a thought.
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: crunchytoast]
#4335164 - 06/25/05 05:16 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
there's this one part where it says, the samurai makes every decision in the span of 7 seconds.
Not every Samurai decision was the smartest thing to do, however. It all went downhill when they lost the right to decapitate disrespectful peasants in the early 1900s
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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crunchytoast
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4335545 - 06/25/05 10:22 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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well not every well-considered decision is the smartest. ex kissinger. every decision involves risk. thinking about something for a long time doesn't alleviate the possibility of a mistake. maybe sometimes it may seem to alleviate the psychological burden of responsibility IME.
although i think that's illusory since come to think of it, not choosing is a choice too, in this case it means choosing 'dont make the faq'
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4335575 - 06/25/05 10:41 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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"they lost the right to decapitate disrespectful peasants in the early 1900s"
Them damn peasants...always getting on my nerves...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4341042 - 06/26/05 11:58 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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7 seconds aside, are you closer to a resolution wiccan seeker?
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4341345 - 06/27/05 01:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude....
its never unethical to help people make informed decisions.
If you make a faq that says DATURA IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND CAN KILL you in it, and someone goes and kills themselves using it, that can not in any way be called your fault.
And on the other hand, your faq may prevent people who were going to use it anyway do it in a safer way, thereby saving lives.
speak your truth
-------------------- Everything I post is fiction.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Moonshoe]
#4342004 - 06/27/05 05:17 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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say goodbye to this planet:
salvia/dmt 5 mins - maybe a brief holiday in infinity
datura/trumptets etc. 72 hours (3days) - like a lifetime or extended trainwreck
I never tried the datura, too much committment for me, & too poisonous.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4342474 - 06/27/05 10:11 AM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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ecstasy has caused the death of many; yet I consider the work of A. Shulgin highly ethical.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4342927 - 06/27/05 12:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wiccan, man i really think you should write it. It's no news drugs can kill, but if people have the possibility to make an informed decision, i believe you could end up saving lives.
You should put a big disclaimer stating this kind of drugs are a POISON in the first place tough.
You should do it man, your dedication is encouraging for any of us.
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4343210 - 06/27/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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i can't say what i think you should do. however, i'll say that if i had such knowledge i would definately write about it.
if you write it, all you are doing is giving information. what someone does based on that information is their own choice and you cannot be blamed for it. as long as you don't say something like 'i think everyone should use datura' (which i know you won't, because you're one of the most intelligent posters here), you're not doing anything wrong IMO.
personally i'd love to learn more about datura and similar psychoactive plants, but there is so little information around. i'd probably never use the herbs because i'm too scared, but they are of great interest to me anyway.
-------------------- "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: PhanTomCat]
#4343275 - 06/27/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said: Wiccan, because of this post you made a while back (that I have bookmarked):
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3044784#Post3044784
I decided NOT to try the Henbane that I had purchased, and your descriptive first-hand experience/words made me come to my decision.... I threw it out, even though I was very curious about it's effects....
Curiousity will prolly~ end up killing this cat, but not with deathly visions caused by a tropane containing plant - and the knowledge I learned about it's possible effects....
This is the first thing I thought of when I read the first post. As much as the general info on Erowid/Shroomery has made an impression of the dangers of dautra, that thread contained enough information to truly understand why it can be so nasty.
Dautra, to me, is one of the best examples of how accurate information can speak for itself. Presenting accurate and well researched information could be presented in such a way that the horrifying experiences speak for themselves.
I'm assuming that you're implying that you're going to also present the "positive" uses of witching herbs, which could be misinterperted as an "okay" to use witchherbs to "tr!p bA||z"? My personal feeling on this is to seperate the writing styles of the "harm-reduction" portion of your FAQ/website from the more academic and medicinal side of witching herbs.
The information you presented in that thread about the dangers of witching herbs is written in an entertaining and easy to access style of writing. People who are looking for a recreational experience will find that appealing to read while also making an impression. But if the "positive" uses of witching herbs are buried in academic-speak, chemistry, and neurological information, it could put off people who are just looking to get high off of something legal, while reserving the positive uses for the people who are responsible enough to dedicate themselves to understanding all the aspects of it.
In other words, in order to get to the information which could in any way be taken as a stamp of approvel/encouragement, you would have to dedicate yourself to reading the more heady material.
I have had a curiousity in understanding the responsible uses of witching herbs and would greatly appericate access to that type of material. I'm not even sure if I'd ever want to actually use witching herbs for anything, but I'd certainly like to understand it more.
I also have to say, Dautra metel is a beautiful plant. I hope to grow some soon.
-------------------- The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Major RL spiritual/philosophical deadlock - shed your light on it [Re: Asante]
#4345089 - 06/27/05 10:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago) |
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I stll have a PharmAlert from Maryland some 20+ years ago because idiot adolescents were dying from Jimson Weed - Datura Stramonium. Shamanic practices like those popularized by Casteneda, fictional though they were, at least indicated that these substances were applied topically, not ingested. I've known at least a couple of youths who almost died from wrongful ingestion (once from a one-time OTC for asthma called Asthmador, which was smoked even by kids, but instead brewed. He was tied to his hospital bed for a couple of days to ride out the 'true' hallucinations. The other one - a counselee of mine - landed himself in the hospital twice. Kids in Marland were eating the seeds and dying!
The image of the witch on a broomstick derives from women who absorbed a fat and datura ointment through the vaginal mucosa of their labia - and flew - OOBE's on Datura! They were often persecuted for using 'the fat of murdered unbaptized infants'!! Visions of the witche's Sabbat! These things truly need to be passed on by an initiator belonging to a real tradition, not from young wannabe, do-it-yourselfers who read a few witchcraft books. But that's just me.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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