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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Good news for spiritual trippers
    #2662092 - 05/11/04 08:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Society NEEDS us, it needs transgressors. It established laws in order for them to be overstepped on. If everyone respects the rules and if everyone submits to the norms (normal scholarship, normal citizenship, normal consummation...) then its the entire society that becomes "normal" and becomes stagnant. Once the transgressors are denounced, they are excluded from society, but Evolution demands society to produce the poison that will constrain it to develop its antibodys.
This is how society learns to jump higher and higher the obstacles that it encounters.
So as necessary as these transgressors are, they are nevertheless sacrificed. We are regularly screwed by the police, attacked, decried, so that later on, other individuals (intermediate individuals compared to normal individuals) that we could qualify as "pseudo-transgressors" will reproduce the same transgressions, but this time toned down, softened...assimilated. And these people will be the ones that will harvest the fruits of the invention of transgression.
But let's not get it wrong, even if its the "pseudo-transgressors that will be known for their actions, their only talent will be to have spotted the first true transgressors, whom for their part will be forgotten and will die convinced of having been precursors.

So my message to all of you inner voyagers is to keep on discovering this mysterious spiritual trip, even if society doesn't agree with your actions. If deep inside of you you don't feel wrong or guilty about tripping, then you are one of these transgressors, and you can only be right.

    Personally when i talk about the doors of consciousness that shrooms and i have opened, i feel deeply misunderstood. I feel that if i opened myself up to society, i will become excluded from it and i will probably die being misunderstood and forgotten.
  But i'm not letting this get to me, nor should you, for i know that we are leading the way to our followers, the "pseudo-transgressors", and i can only dream about how society will be once our transgression wont be a transgression anymore. I hope that spirituality won't be seen as an abstract idea anymore, and, who knows, maybe spiritual exploration will become something common!  :mushroom2:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2662255 - 05/11/04 10:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Spiritually isnt a political power and will not be treated as such. Rightfully so. It is a personal movement of liberation and expansion towards the perfection that created us.

The United States will never change unless something really big happens and forces everyone to open their eyes. Theres a very simple reason for this. It works and its convenient. The free thinkers who are true to their own nature of being will remain dormant because it appears they are dreamers of their own fantasy.

Peace will only be had in this world once you convince everyone to burn currency.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (05/11/04 10:13 AM)


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OfflineDipsomania
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: psyka]
    #2662335 - 05/11/04 10:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Peace will only be had in this world once you convince everyone to burn currency.




Um, woah, what? How will de-abstracting material wealth bring about peace? Money is just a symbol, the pathology of greed will coninue without it. Native Americans with no currency killed eachother and took slaves (I'm thinking of the Haida). Boom! your theory holds no water.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Dipsomania]
    #2662357 - 05/11/04 10:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

two words: money and power


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Dipsomania]
    #2662358 - 05/11/04 10:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The concept actually wasnt literal.

If everyone burned money the economy would be fucked. Then and only then will the United States be weakened enough to accept a massive change in government. Of course thats opinion, but if it were true and everyone believed it to be true, people still would not burn their money.

Indians had a form of currency: horses, furs, weapons, precious stones, enscribed sea shells, etc...


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (05/11/04 11:00 AM)


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OfflineDipsomania
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2662368 - 05/11/04 11:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Society NEEDS us, it needs transgressors.




I agree with this theory, but allow me to point out that there are LOTS of transgressors of differing varities out there (ie child pornographers, political tyrants, and geocidal hate groups) who are pushing the limits of what society considers "acceptable" or "normal" and I don't see their contributions leading us to anything better than we have now.

If you are going to claim that one day spiritual mushroom trippers will break through and take the human race to a new level of peace/happiness/harmony, well, you're going to have to prove that sitting around on computers sharing memories of an idiosynratic subjective mental state translates into change.

Personally I would put my money on a room full of inventors creating wind turbines for cooperatively-run renewable energy plants than a room full of mushroom tripping poets, artists, and poorly-educated freedom fighting pseudo-intellectuals if somebody asked me who the heroes of tomorrow's society will be.


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OfflineDipsomania
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: psyka]
    #2662393 - 05/11/04 11:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If everyone burned money the economy would be fucked. Then and only then will the United States be weakened enough to accept a massive change in government.




Oh ok, I understand, so you don't say that money is the cause of evils (which is of course a rificulous statement I will not tolerate) but you claim that the most direct (or more in your words the ONLY) method to bring about peace is to destroy all the money so that the exchange of goods is frozen and then in between bouts with famine-derived hallucinations we'll stumble over to the white house and overthrow the government? Ok, let's reside in fantasy land for a moment and pretend this were a viable strategy (which it isn't, of course).

Now the US government has been overthrown and replaced by the montana militia .. er I mean.. by the rainbow happy love commune..

Suddenly the North koreans don't want to kill anybody and the israelis are hugging palestinians and the bhutanese welcome back the ethnic hindus and all the different races of the planet are happy to live together and peace reigns supreme?? Wait a minute..

wanna run that by me again please?


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Dipsomania]
    #2662406 - 05/11/04 11:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, see we wont be having peace any time soon :smile: Personally I think its just a far fetched dream.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (05/11/04 11:16 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2662456 - 05/11/04 11:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is feasable to start a change. But the thing is you need(we) need to start. Work in your towns. Help the children. They are the most important thing on this planet. Abuse them and the world will be fucked. A person I had the privelage to meet gave me his papper on healing the heart of the world. And it all talks about children. Treat them as if they are the rulers of the world. Cuz they are. Treat them as if they where in charge of it. Tell them you love em every day. Never hurt them or demean them. And learn how to talk to them as if they where the same age as there parent. I see all to often people saying to there kid in the mall,"uk your so anoying" those words effect the youth. Home school your kids. Teach them good values and respect for the world. Try not to shield them from the world let them expierience it as much as they can. yada yada yada.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: ]
    #2663443 - 05/11/04 03:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

We just need to drug the entire world population with hallucinogens so that they can see the "light". Of course, that would be next to impossible to do, and would land someone in a lot of trouble :laugh:


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Anonymous

Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: deff]
    #2663583 - 05/11/04 04:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

True but so many are mentaly unstable. A lot of people would think they are dying and living in hell or something.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Dipsomania]
    #2667626 - 05/12/04 08:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"If you are going to claim that one day spiritual mushroom trippers will break through and take the human race to a new level of peace/happiness/harmony, well, you're going to have to prove that sitting around on computers sharing memories of an idiosynratic subjective mental state translates into change."


No, that is of course not what I'm claiming.
But spiritual tripping has been around for a long time. Thousands of years ago, tribes discovered different plants that made them trip, some of these ppl were named "chamans", spiritual leaders of the tribe, but most of them were just considered mad. The spiritual leader sure didn't make it through history into the society of today, but i can assure you that spiritual tripping is not considered as crazy as it used to be. I don't know if you noticed, but most people in this forum who are realizing that we need to evolve have taken drugs, and these drugs are getting more and more consumed. Its like the number of consumers has exponentially evolved and you can't deny this.
Now let's say that this population of consumers are the transgressors, the poison. What's "the break through that will take the human race to a new level of peace/happiness/harmony", in other words, whats the antibody? Well, in my opinion, it will be the results of serious scientifical experiments that are being done today to understand why spiritual tripping gives us such of an insight on life and reality.
Perhaps the results of these researches will prove the existence of an alternate reality, or a second view of reality, that most of us are not concious of, and perhaps this will be the wake up call that we need so much.
And in this case, the scientists will be remembered, but us, we'll just be forgotten, convinced of being precursors.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2667999 - 05/12/04 11:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Somebody once said something along the lines of:

"There's no doubt psychedelics bring about spiritual experiences but trippers fail to convince me psychedelics inspire spiritual lifestyles."

Sure mushrooms are pretty amazing, but in my encounters with people who take mushrooms I have never felt their presence was making the world a "better" place. Have you cut yourself off the grid since taking mushrooms? Carried groceries home in an ethically-made backpack instead of plastic bags? Sold your car? Gained humility? Boycotted factory farmed meats? Taken up a spiritual discipline, like meditation, yoga, or martial arts?

Likely, the answer is no. If the answer is yes, then why didn't the 15 year old gangstas who use mushrooms interchangeably with alchohol also adopt a healthier lifestyle? Could it be that some people can "get something" from mushrooms and some people can't? Seems to me that some people can get something out of ANYTHING and some people can't get ANYTHING out of ANYTHING.

Now let's take a look at what mushrooms have done to/for you:

"Now let's say that this population of consumers are the transgressors, the poison."

ok, they've made you an elitist asshole who sees everybody as a poison destroying the planet.

"Well, in my opinion, it will be the results of serious scientifical experiments that are being done today to understand why spiritual tripping gives us such of an insight on life and reality."

Ah I see so you and people like you should be studied by science, and what you speculate may be shown is

"the existence of an alternate reality, or a second view of reality, that most of us are not concious of, and perhaps this will be the wake up call that we need so much."

Ah ok, so more elitist ego bullshit coming from you. You've got such an overinflated ego that you actually believe you may be one of the chosen ones privy to a special, more complete view of the reality than the rest of the idiots on this planet?

I mean, you actually think you are the antibody to some kind of horrible disease that is crippling the planet??? You're SO FUCKING STOOOPID that you ACTUALLY HONESTLY THINK THAT YOU, insignifigant little YOU are .. ah forget it.


The number one effect that mushrooms have on people that I've seen is they believe that they are more special than the next guy because they've had some powerful experience. The problem is that the experience fails to give them the power to incorporate these insights into their daily lives. Personally I don't give a shit what you've experienced, what I care about is what you can bring to the table. I'd take a hardworking responsible simpleton on a spaceship way before I'd take a egomaniacal idealist spiritual philosopher tripper. As the population on this planet grows and we get less and less elbow room, I hope the space is taken up by the former.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2668807 - 05/12/04 03:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You're SO FUCKING STOOOPID that you ACTUALLY HONESTLY THINK THAT YOU, insignifigant little YOU are




You made your point but there's no need for this ...

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: ]
    #2669118 - 05/12/04 05:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AFungitobewith said:
I think it is feasable to start a change. But the thing is you need(we) need to start. Work in your towns. Help the children. They are the most important thing on this planet. Abuse them and the world will be fucked. A person I had the privelage to meet gave me his papper on healing the heart of the world. And it all talks about children. Treat them as if they are the rulers of the world. Cuz they are. Treat them as if they where in charge of it. Tell them you love em every day. Never hurt them or demean them. And learn how to talk to them as if they where the same age as there parent. I see all to often people saying to there kid in the mall,"uk your so anoying" those words effect the youth. Home school your kids. Teach them good values and respect for the world. Try not to shield them from the world let them expierience it as much as they can. yada yada yada.




it would also be helpfull to get them off the mass quantitys of stimulants.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2669132 - 05/12/04 05:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Somebody once said something along the lines of:

"There's no doubt psychedelics bring about spiritual experiences but trippers fail to convince me psychedelics inspire spiritual lifestyles."

Sure mushrooms are pretty amazing, but in my encounters with people who take mushrooms I have never felt their presence was making the world a "better" place. Have you cut yourself off the grid since taking mushrooms? Carried groceries home in an ethically-made backpack instead of plastic bags? Sold your car? Gained humility? Boycotted factory farmed meats? Taken up a spiritual discipline, like meditation, yoga, or martial arts?

i carry groceries in my backpack on my bike. i dont own a car. i feel that ive gained humanity. i dont eat at burger king(etc) and im studying kung fu.. i guess im well on my way.

as for other people not having the same experience. set and setting? social disorders?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: BleaK]
    #2669169 - 05/12/04 05:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

as for other people not having the same experience. set and setting? social disorders?

That's exactly my point. Real change isn't going to come by handing out mushrooms. The mushroom works with whatever cerebral material is there and will bring out whatever you have in your personality, it won't bring you to some kind of ideal human state.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2669182 - 05/12/04 05:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
as for other people not having the same experience. set and setting? social disorders?

That's exactly my point. Real change isn't going to come by handing out mushrooms. The mushroom works with whatever cerebral material is there and will bring out whatever you have in your personality, it won't bring you to some kind of ideal human state.




i say we hand out cyanide pills


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinegotmagog
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2669204 - 05/12/04 05:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

In my opinion, mushrooms and spiritual tripping can't change the world. The powerful experences of trips are very personal and can't be shared or taught to other people

The thing that trips CAN do is change individually the lives of those who take them. I believe that responsible psychedelc use is beneficial for harmony and happiness. One can never change society as a whole and impose his will on all others just because he experienced some things, but one may change and fix his own life.

And that is all that matters. It sounds egoistical, but we are all alone, or at least not together with ALL people, with our quest for happiness and undestanding on this planet.

The best we can do is live happily and try to giive some positive emotions to those around us, to become a saviour of the world or change it is way too unrealistic.

But for a person with certain mindframe tripping from time to time will be a greatly positive influence in his life, and help him find personal salvation. And when one is happy his world is already changed fot the better, even if it is only in his head and attitude. And for that reason mushrooms are a gift for those who value them!


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: gotmagog]
    #2669276 - 05/12/04 05:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I feel that they can be a catalyst for further spiritual development if that is what you intend on, and use them for. This is not to say the same knowledge and development cannot be achieved without drugs, for it can, and in some ways a lot more rewarding. This is usually through meditation, sacrifice, exploring lucid dreaming, OOBE's, and many more. However, meditation can also be compared to psychedelics. Meditation can have good results in spiritual understanding if that is your intent, although for others it is used as a way to simply relax, or to relieve stress. So basically, IMO psychedelics are nothing more than an aid in something that is very possible otherwise, and will only occur with the right setting and intent. And no, I don't view myself as anything "special", nor have I become ego-inflated due to mushroom use. In fact it's the opposite, as I know find myself more understanind towards others, and my ego has taken a beating from a couple of recent deaths :smile:


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2673197 - 05/13/04 01:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's too bad you didn't take the time to read what i was trying to say with more attention, cuz the result is that you misinterpreted me. It almost seems that you were more concentrated on being dead set against me than on trying to understand me.
OK, so here's what u thought i was saying:

Shroomers have a direct influence on Evolution.

First of all, I wasn't talking of any kind of shroomers, but spiritual ones, not the 15 year old gangsta, even though a 15 year old gangster could very well be a spiritual tripper. Second, the influence is indirect, and this is especially what u didn't get.

(by the way, i applied the theory on shroomers, but it works as well for anarchists, communists, Rastas, punks, etc...  hopefully u'll understand what i mean by the end of my reply)


ok, they've made you an elitist asshole who sees everybody as a poison destroying the planet

Poison/antibody are just images I use to try and express my idea, in no way are they meant to be pejorative towards anyone.

  Ah I see so you and people like you should be studied by science, and what you speculate may be shown is

No, not that, but the effects of shrooms on conciousness should and ARE being studied by science, but i do admit that if scientists need any volunteers, i'm open for anything! (free trips!! :thumbup:)

Ah ok, so more elitist ego bullshit coming from you. You've got such an overinflated ego that you actually believe you may be one of the chosen ones privy to a special, more complete view of the reality than the rest of the idiots on this planet?

but i don't care if they choose me or not! as long as its done! where did i ever mention myself in any of this?! and i never called anyone an idiot, but its true that some people experience conciousness at a higher degree than others, nonetheless no degree of conciousness is "better" than the oher, they are all equally essential because they are all part of the Whole.


I mean, you actually think you are the antibody to some kind of horrible disease that is crippling the planet??? You're SO FUCKING STOOOPID that you ACTUALLY HONESTLY THINK THAT YOU, insignifigant little YOU are .. ah forget it.

Shit dude! I said i was the poison, not the antibody! And you KNOW you're as insignificant as I am.


The problem is that the experience fails to give them the power to incorporate these insights into their daily lives.

Yes, I agree, and this is mostly because you don't exactly remember how these insights felt, but you remember that at the time they meant so much and they were so true.
I have taken up meditation though, but i'm not sure if this is the cause of the experiences i've had on shrooms. I dont remember having any special interest in spirituality before my first trip on shrooms though. you can criticize me on that fact yes, but u won't get anything out of it, its just like that. I sometimes wonder what kind of person i would be if i never took drugs. And i don't believe i'm more special than anyone else, like i said, we are all equally insignificant, but we all have the power to influence the evolution of the world, wether it be direct or indirect.

Now i hope you CHILLED OUT, that you RELAXED, and that you understood my first post now.
Something tells me you haven't had any deep spiritual trips before?
Peace :stoned:


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: exclusive58]
    #2674587 - 05/13/04 06:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Something tells me you haven't had any deep spiritual trips before?"

Well, I've seen a lot of pretty colours, if that's what you mean.

Ok so what's the good news again? Could you some up what the good news for spiritual trippers is and we'll go from there.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2678200 - 05/14/04 03:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
[Well, I've seen a lot of pretty colours, if that's what you mean.






I guess that means no


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OfflineBeatRoad
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2678923 - 05/14/04 05:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Have you cut yourself off the grid since taking mushrooms? Carried groceries home in an ethically-made backpack instead of plastic bags? Sold your car? Gained humility? Boycotted factory farmed meats? Taken up a spiritual discipline, like meditation, yoga, or martial arts?"

Mixomatosis, I totally respect your view because I knew a few assholes who have tripped and learned nothing whatsoever. But your words are kind of funny for me because I have changed deeply through shrooms. I do meditate now on regular basis, practicing Qigong and expanding my consciousness in a way other than drugs. I make it a point to help people out whenever I can. This is usually as simple as helping them carry something or me just talking to them when they're down. I'm not changing world to any great degree but I have gained a real look at humility. I have realized my place here on this planet, that I truly am just another guy. I will die just like the rest of us and all I really have is my own life to experience what I want to experience. I'm not going to change the course of history. I don't really need to. What I will do is live humbly and simply, and not get caught up in the self. Mushrooms have shown me that intelligence is kind of figure of speech in a way, and one of my lifetime goals now is to reach ego-loss, or at least as well as can lose my ego. I agree that this post is pretty idealistic to begin with, and yeah a bunch of us trippers are not going start a revolution because we consume some psilocybin. But a friend of mine who is certainly into tripping said to me that he is excited that more kids these days are doing psychedelics. No, not all kids will learn new lessons. But some will. And that's good.


Edited by BeatRoad (05/14/04 06:01 PM)


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Good news for spiritual trippers [Re: BeatRoad]
    #2680102 - 05/14/04 10:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I guess that means no "

Hmm well if pretty colours aren't what you're talking about then I guess I'm not part of the club. We are talking about the same thing here, right? Mushrooms.. the magic kind.. the ones you buy from shady crack dealers and take to escape your personal problems so you can dance at parties and see pretty things like colours.. kinda like sniffing glue only no hangover and not as fun?

Beatroad.. I hear you, you know what I'm saying too.

Exclusive, could you sum up in a few sentences what the good news for spiritual trippers is? Pretend likes it's actually news, what's the headline?


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