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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12923528 -

Im using your definition.  :shrug: 

Quote:
Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1]  is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness  of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight.



Thats what mysticism is ^.  The knowledge and wisdom of the universe through sheer thought alone - no external check required.  And that is mysticism at its best...

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: ModusPwnd]
    #12923588 -

ModusPwnd said:
Im using your definition.  :shrug: 

Quote:
Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1]  is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness  of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight.



Thats what mysticism is ^.  The knowledge and wisdom of the universe through sheer thought alone - no external check required.  And that is mysticism at its best...


You are changing my definition to suit your argument. There is no question to answer and there is no knowledge and wisdom mentioned in my definition. It is seeking an experience, which cannot be externally checked and doesn't need external checks.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12923598 -

Well, I consider seeking god, ultimate reality, divinity and spiritual truth to be knowledge and wisdom.  Regardless, at least we agree that mysticism is defined such that no external check is required on anything gleamed from it, and everything you do gleam comes solely from your own personal thoughts.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: ModusPwnd]
    #12923623 -

Your own thoughts and the thoughts of others who experience the same things.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12923632 -

Mysticism is not science and doesn't claim to be science. It has nothing to do with crop circles, ufos, or anything else on the list in the link from the op. I see no reason to compare it to science.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12923681 -

Why do you suppose so many mystics and scientists do feel a reason to compare and contrast the two?

You have constructed a nice and tight little definition of your own personal mysticism, a definition that has carefully tiptoed around the bounds of science.  But most mystics do not care at all about such a tidy definition.  Mystics in america very much embrace crop circles, UFOs, bible code, voodoo and even conspiracy theories like chemtrails and apocalyptic prophesies.  In the world of mystics, your take on it is very much a minority take.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: desert father]
    #12923709 -

I collect arrowheads. Were a future anthropologist to find them in my room what would he conclude?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: ModusPwnd]
    #12923713 -

I didn't constuct anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism

My take comes from reading books by old school mystics. If mystics embrace ufos that doesn't change the definition of mysticism.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12923830 -

akira_akuma said:
bla bla... all i hear about is how one thing is right and the other is wrong. what is wrong with mysticism? if nothing is wrong with science... then nothing is wrong with either.

i happen to think both can be like poison shit cakes.

eat up...

i laugh at all these possibilities... i hate to partake in them though... but it can't be helped. i need to know certain things just as i need to put stuff out there so i don't just tell you to fuck right off, with ones pedantic pragmatic bullshit.

it's all good when there is understanding but understand that both either or are all shit comparably. unless you can have the wisdom to know the difference; which if you consider facts of either or, you probably don't. cause both are proper inherently and have their own problems and solutions in them both.

yeah, just my opinion.


On the first page, I explained why science is different from non-evidence based belief systems. The key element is that it tests its claims.


Samurai Drifter said:
No, mysticism or any other belief system that doesn't test its claims is not valid in any way.

Why? Simple. The only reason a claim isn't testable is that it has no effect on the outcome of an event. And if it has no affect on the outcome of an event, it really doesn't matter whether or not it's true.

Take God, for example. Whether or not he's up there, people in the world are experiencing suffering that's only alleviated if other people do something about it. You could say God is working through those people, but there's no way to show that he is, and those people could just as easily have made up their own minds to help others. So what does it really matter if God is working through them or not?

Or, how about this? I drop a ball, and it falls due to the force of gravity. You could say that gravity was designed by God, or Cthulhu, or some omnipotent head of lettuce. But there's no way to show whether or not it was, and you can show that the ball fell due to gravity, so what does it matter whether or not the force of gravity was designed?



--------------------

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Icelander]
    #12923832 -

Icelander said:
I collect arrowheads. Were a future anthropologist to find them in my room what would he conclude?


That you were a great warrior who had slain many braves. Of course, he would be wrong.


--------------------

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #12923838 -

akira_akuma said:
for you there are two... for others there are more or less... but they are all irrevocably interconnected to the same point.

what is that point to you? matter? or consciousness?



The origination of matter is something I find impossible to imagine. Its a real WTF. Once you have matter, I think it explains everything else in this universe, except for conscious awareness. The origination of conscious awareness is another real big WTF.

Questions like, "Is there a god?" seem as relevant as, "Are there dancing table napkins on the other side of the universe?". Both are from a human imagination seeking something better in this world, with no evidence to back them up and no hope of an answer.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #12923906 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Icelander said:
I collect arrowheads. Were a future anthropologist to find them in my room what would he conclude?


That you were a great warrior who had slain many braves. Of course, he would be wrong.



So true.:sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Freedom]
    #12923910 -

Freedom said:
akira_akuma said:
for you there are two... for others there are more or less... but they are all irrevocably interconnected to the same point.

what is that point to you? matter? or consciousness?



The origination of matter is something I find impossible to imagine. Its a real WTF. Once you have matter, I think it explains everything else in this universe, except for conscious awareness. The origination of conscious awareness is another real big WTF.

Questions like, "Is there a god?" seem as relevant as, "Are there dancing table napkins on the other side of the universe?". Both are from a human imagination seeking something better in this world, with no evidence to back them up and no hope of an answer.


Bingo!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Icelander]
    #12925213 -

Where can I find the clearly defined rules of this science?

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: JustinTime]
    #12925330 -

The rules of good science


--------------------

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: JustinTime]
    #12925501 -

here are some good rules in graphical form:


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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Sir Francis Bacon]
    #12925561 -

Sir Francis Bacon said:
Mysticism isn't a belief system.


Sir Francis Bacon said:
It is fuel for the randi mutual masturbation society.


Sir Francis Bacon said:
ModusPwnd said:
  Mysticism is a method of thinking up the answer and knowing it to be true without any external check.


No it's not.

Quote:
Mysticism (from the Greek %u03BC%u03C5%u03C3%u03C4%u03B9%u03BA%u03CC%u03C2, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1]  is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness  of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight.



Sir Francis Bacon said:
Mysticism is not science and doesn't claim to be science. It has nothing to do with crop circles, ufos, or anything else on the list in the link from the op. I see no reason to compare it to science.


Well said.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: Freedom]
    #12927600 -

Freedom said:
akira_akuma said:
for you there are two... for others there are more or less... but they are all irrevocably interconnected to the same point.

what is that point to you? matter? or consciousness?



The origination of matter is something I find impossible to imagine. Its a real WTF. Once you have matter, I think it explains everything else in this universe, except for conscious awareness. The origination of conscious awareness is another real big WTF.

Questions like, "Is there a god?" seem as relevant as, "Are there dancing table napkins on the other side of the universe?". Both are from a human imagination seeking something better in this world, with no evidence to back them up and no hope of an answer.


wouldn't it be strange though... maybe just leaving mystery to be a path insted of wanting to believe we can have all this bullshit to understand, that only just drives us all to stupidity and madness?


the way i liken it is to the void... in the our minds there is a big stinky void... we furnish it with all these things that we want to hold onto for security and we have all of our lapses in judgement and reasoning in the stink hole void. well why not just abandon trying to comfortably believe you are fine in a hole, when you can just get out into the so-called "light-bearer" and open your eyes to what? probably don't see shit... but still it's better then being trapped in a hole of nothing.

oh well, speak on that part.... i could get into that further if you want me to.

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #12927762 -

Quote:
Someone has been spending way too much time on ATS.

Which of that nonsense are you certain enough to wager money on?


Sorry , i dont know what ATS even is. Google shows various results.

The main point in the op was to discredit and basically mock some of these mystical , paranormal ideas.
I argued that i show curiosity for events that have not been scientifically explained.
I showed you what research has been conducted , by whom .. and what the results were.
Google is your friend :grin:
so if you wish , go ahead and debunk it.

Im here to talk ..not play poker.
and if you , or anyone else has information that goes against the legitimacy of the research i have mentioned , i would be delighted to learn something new.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Mysticism is as valid as science. [Re: jivJaN]
    #12928199 -

Please explain how water degrades.

You are here to talk or to proclaim? If any of those links you posted was validated then it would be validated using the scientific method; else it is horseshit.

So using science to go against science makes sense in what manner?


--------------------

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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