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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 760
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If theirs no proof, is it real?
    #972368 - 10/18/02 03:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

With no physical differences, and no chemical imbalance: is ADD/ADHD a real problem? Their are over 8,000,000 (eight million) perscriptions for legal amphetimines every year. These amphetimines are known to cause changes in the brain simular to that of cocaine, and brain shrinkage.

http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/hearings/106th/oi/ritalin92900/baughman.htm
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/awaken/millionsofchildren.htm
http://home.att.net/~Fred-Alden/Es5.html
http://www.outlookcities.com/children/Baughman_MD_Immunize_against_ADD.htm


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972375 - 10/18/02 03:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

we're gonna medicate the masses so they behave like good little sheep and fall in line.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972380 - 10/18/02 03:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

You're right: It may not be a real problem. Is creativity a problem worthy of medication?

One point I do have to make is that Ritalin (I do not know about other meds, I haven't tried them) does work very well to improve various aspects of life for those of us with this "problem".

Whether or not meds are needed...I'm not sure. Some days I praise my Ritalin, other days I loathe it.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Edited by trendal (10/18/02 03:42 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972391 - 10/18/02 03:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I contend that hyperactivity is a common and normal syndrome in children that goes away with maturity. ADD/ADHD may exist, but I think is overdiagnosed. Your best bet would be to study adults with ADD/ADHD. I think it is quite natural for children to have short attention spans... probably better for them as it gives them little snippets of information from all across the board, rather than just a narrow range.
Specialization is for robots... not kids. <---A little obscure, but true.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972417 - 10/18/02 03:52 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I am assuming this is a "science" thread?

Cheers,


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 760
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: Sclorch]
    #972475 - 10/18/02 04:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

ADD/ADHD may exist, but I think is overdiagnosed. Your best bet would be to study adults with ADD/ADHD.

Definetly! Children as young as two years old are being diagnosed with ADD and medicated! I think thats sick.

~shrug~ I guess its a science thread, I couldnt see anywhere better to put it.

(edit - changed wording, didnt want to sound like an asshole - sorry :^)


Edited by TeKHeAD009 (10/18/02 04:17 PM)


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Registered: 09/09/02
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972548 - 10/18/02 04:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i have ADD/ADHD. there are differences in the size of the frontal lobe, and amount of blood fllow to the frontal lobe...these are emperically measurable symptoms of ADD/ADHD. i assure you it has very real side effects. the frontal lobe apparently plays a role in planning for one's future, something i am horrible at. it must also have something to do with one's sense of time as mine is rather fucked. i do, however, feel that i enjoy a creativity/connection with my unconsious/etc that others, like my sister, don't. another interesting thing is the fact that I as an ADD child seem to have resisted much of the social conditioning attempts by my parents and school. i generally feel alienated from institutions/parents/teachers/etc. i tap to the beat of a different drummer, as they say.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


Edited by vaporbrains (10/18/02 04:46 PM)


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 760
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #972622 - 10/18/02 05:19 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I dont have any doubts that their are some people effected by this problem. I do think that it is grossly overdiagnosed. Children as young as 2 - 10? Even as young as 15 or 16 I think is a bit young to put on medication. Their should be different ways of dealing with this just meds.

Thats very interesting about the diffrence of size in your frontal lobe and its blood flow. I've been studying this a little bit recently. I'm not sure about the ability to plan, but I think that that part of the brain controls motivation and the persuit of goals. And less motivation would account for less ability to plan. Some of the frontal areas control memory, emotion, and abstract thought. The abstract thought perhaps accounting for your above normal creativity. I dont know about your internal clock, I forget what part of the brain controls that. My friend who was diagnosed with ADD also has that problem. He'll say hes 5 minutes away when hes really 20, or vice-versa. I'd be interested in knowing: Do you dream? If so how often. The frontal lobe is thought to control part of dreaming, and people with brain damage to only the frontal lobe dont dream. Both my friend, and my brother (also diagnosed with ADD) dont dream often. Also, have you ever experienced blank out periods?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972667 - 10/18/02 05:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

My younger brother had a friend his age that was hyperactive... and it was very obvious. The poor guy, when not on his medication, would do things like run around a tree in the back yard hitting it with a plastic wiffle ball bat for hours and hours. When he was taking his medication, he acted pretty much like a normal little kid. His case was a clear and obvious one. I think a lot of parents are using drugs to babysit their kids... they ignore the kids, which leads to kids doing more and more "bad" things to get attention, resulting in a misdiagnosis as hyperactive, etc. This is the age of "the universe owes me" and "I deserve easy"... when mixed with raising children, which require more giving than taking, and by no means easy, many parents revert to drugging their children... the easy out.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #972692 - 10/18/02 05:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if, in say 10 years time, all children are medicated from birth. I'll leave it to the drug companies to think of the symptoms.


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #973535 - 10/19/02 12:48 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i do remember my dreams, but not frequently. the ones i remember are usually bizzare. i talk in my sleep a lot, i am told. i was quite the solumnambulist in my early youth. the last dream i remember i only remember fragments of: i am in a large building walking down a hallway. there are tiger statues in the hallway. if i walk forward, towards them, they look like they are leaping out at me. if i stop they are statues again. i wake up at somepoint when i think i've discovered a secret passage in one of the rooms of the building.

i zone out frequently, i tune people out when they're talking to me and when i come back i usually say something like "uh, what?" most people find this very annoying. i whistle constantly. i dont' "blank out" completely, as in not being conscious and then being aware of this when i come back.

time: i often have trouble with memories pertaining to repetive activities, things i do all the time...i can't remember if i locked the car or whatever because i do it all the time, it's not distinctive enough. i also have trouble deciding when something happened. for instance, if i had a conversation with someone in the morning and i am refering back to that conversation later that evening i might refer to it as if it happend the day before: Me: "remember when we were talking about crickets and quantum physics yesterday" Friend: "that happened this morning. are you insane?"

i think the theory that certain parts of the brain control certain functions has been modified. certain parts of the brain are now said "to facilitate" or "are instrumental" or something to that effect in the execution of function A. it is now thought that functions are more distributed.



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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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InvisibleGalvie_Flu
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Registered: 06/30/02
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #973792 - 10/19/02 02:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

kjk


Edited by Galvie_Flu (05/24/11 07:39 PM)


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #973843 - 10/19/02 03:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Infidelgod...........truer words I haven't heard!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #974610 - 10/19/02 01:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The friend I talked about eariler was diagnosed with ADD, depression, then ADHD, medicated, medicated, medicated... He's now going to a neurologist doctor I think and he's been diagnosed with petit mal, a form of eplipse. All the symptoms you described fit him, and he doesnt dream often either, but he sais when he does they're very bizarre and often dont make sense. He 'blanks' out, but not like an unconscious fall down on the floor blank out... its like he just stops working for a few seconds, then resumes where he left off. He'll be getting an EEG done soon, I'll let you know if I remember the result of it.

Sorry, this is just interesting to me how the brain works and such. I've not so much been studying it, but more just looking into the different diseases associated with the brain and/or the central nervous system.


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Anonymous

Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #974619 - 10/19/02 01:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I've been diagnosed with everything from ADHA to scitzophrena, and yet I remain off medication. I think the psychiatrists of today are using anti-depressants and stimulants like the doctors of yesterday used antibiotics.


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: Anonymous]
    #974756 - 10/19/02 02:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Your right, and thats good. I personally would rather eat healthy then take vitamins and drink water before taking a pill for my headache. I believe in the benefeits of medications, but I'd rather try to fix it without pills first. In some cases it is a necessity, but in many others I think that a non perscripted solution could be found.

I also wrote a paper on anti-depressents recently. I found that 1 in 20 american kids are being diagnosed with depression, and over 1 million perscriptions for prozac, zoloft, paxil, celexia, and other SSRI antidepressents are being given out to children under 18 every year. First, doctors dont know the long term side effects of these drugs that they're perscribing, and second, I'm sure theirs a different workaround before using drugs.

The US goverment is telling kids that drugs are bad, but they're giving kids ritilin to make them pay attention/behave, and SSRI's to make them feel happy.

But hey... we're gonna medicate the masses so they behave like good little sheep and fall in line. -infidelGOD


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OfflineEightball
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #974766 - 10/19/02 02:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i think our system is too fucked up and we're just seeing lots of kids who seriously don't want/need to be cramped into educational concentration camps. "sit here for 6 hours a day while i teach you crap that doesn't specifically appeal to your style of learning, and deal with it cause thats the role of the student"


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: Eightball]
    #974838 - 10/19/02 03:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i'm over 20 years old.


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: Eightball]
    #974868 - 10/19/02 03:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Attention Deficit Hyperactive disorder,
I have been diagnosed with this since the age of 10 or 11, at that age I was put on Ritalin and then boom I was focused and doing my schoolwork, but the comedowns were insane. I don?t think it?s necessarily a disorder rather than a different type of human being mentally engineered towards a Hunter rather than a Farmer; the world we live in is a Farmers world.
By farmers I mean someone who is completely content waiting for his crops to ripen, and who grows his own food, and by Hunter I mean someone who's easily distracted from the task at hand, can easily get excited, and cant easily focus on a task at hand if not interested (i.e. A natural born hunter). If you look at the similarities between people with ADD/ADHD and lets say a cat, you can see that the cat which is a natural hunter, with just the slightest noise or movement the cat will be distracted from whatever it was doing.
I think ADD/ADHD is very natural, in that it is in many cases hereditary, which to me could mean that since a certain percentage of my families? ancestry is Native American, the hunter characteristics were passed onto me.
Native Americans are a great example of a people that lived off the land and that had to hunt their food.
The advantages of ADD/ADHD are very obvious when it comes to such a hard way of life such as hunting and gathering.

But to this day, I?m now 18.
I still on occasion use Ritalin to help me concentrate on work.
Although I thoroughly still believe that one can take on a mindset that enables them to find an interest in anything, therefore being able to focus on something that one with ADD/ADHD might not normally find appealing.

A book I recommend on this matter is:
Attention Deficit Disorder,
A different perception by Thom Hartmann
Forward by Michael Popkin, Ph.D.


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Listen, or your tongue will keep you deaf. :wink:
ŦēҜй? - ??ĜįĈ?? ҒűČҝĮńĜ ?đVǻŃčЄмЄńŦ


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Anonymous

Re: If theirs no proof, is it real? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #975692 - 10/19/02 11:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The answers that science has for behavioral disorders are incomplete at best.


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