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Offlinebrainwreck
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Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction
    #953476 - 10/11/02 11:07 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hello -- this is my first post to these forums. I have stumbled upon a way to get (relatively) cheap anhydrous alcohol for use in mushroom extraction

This is accomplished by running some 190 proof or above alcohol through a 3a Molecular Sieve. The Sieve is made from synthetic Zeolite crystals, and is fairly cheap ( $2 a pound ) The crystals will absorb the water remaining in the alcohol.

The place I saw this method mentioned is a site dedicated to Auto Fuels, one of which is anhydrous ethanol. ===> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html

On that page is a link to a supplier of 3a molecular seive crystals ===> http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/adcoa/molecula.htm

I have not yet tried this myself, so if anyone does try it soon, post here and let me know how it goes. ! This is the answer to the short shelf life of psilo/cyb/cin in other extraction agents. The extract is kept in solution untill it is about to be taken and the last alcohol can be evaporated then (eliminating the need for a milligram scale too). In this way, there is not so much air contact during storage, nor is there any water present to degrade the psilos. I hope this leads to more extract experimentation, since none of the extract posts seem to have procured anhydrous alcohol, and most accounts seem to suffer for that fact.


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Offlineblazzingbudzzz
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #959709 - 10/14/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That looks like a good way to do it. I have been wanting to try something like that for a while. Perhaps I will end up doing soon, then again maybe not.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #961099 - 10/14/02 11:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

it would take some testing to be sure it will remove all[/] of the water but you might be on to something. then again there might, be an issue regaurding impurities other than water.


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Edited by concretefeet (10/14/02 11:12 PM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #961962 - 10/15/02 03:58 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

there is no need to use anhydrous alcohol for extractions. the reason they do it is for running cars on it. lower alcohol can be mixed with other fuels to make Biodiesel. but a car wont run well on 93% alcohol.
the zeolites do work, so do corn grits and limestone and a good few other materials which are easier to get than zeolites


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #962542 - 10/15/02 10:31 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I thought I remembered an extraction experiment described by someone of mycological note [can't remember the name] who found that psilo concentration was higher when using acid-alcohol [alcohol plus aequeous] rather than straight alcohol or straight acid. Water isn't necessarily something to avoid during an extraction, but who knows. That was just something I remember being posted awhile back and it looked genuine, chromatography or some such to determine psilo yield.


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Offlinebrainwreck
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: Suntzu]
    #962587 - 10/15/02 11:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Okay I am going to respond to everyone at once:

Yes, I have heard other things work, like the corn grits and I heard Epsom salts too... but the 3A molecular sieve is designed and advertised to remove All water. I do not know if those other substances can do that. Also, it is easy to obtain according to that source, and damn cheap.

Yes, water is fine and maybe even beneficial for extraction ( I read that article too ), but the reason we are trying for anhydrous alcohol is so that we can evaporate a large extraction down to a few cc's, and not have whats left sitting in water. This is because water is known to degrade the psilo's over time. So with anhydrous alcohol we can make a stronger extract (by using more shroom and evaporating) that will have a longer shelf life, yet equal an extraction that includes water.

Lastly, with anhydrous alcohol you have the option to evaporate the final alcohol before taking the dose. Many folks consider alcohol to be a very bad combo with psychadelics. My idea would be to drop the dose ( 1cc ) into a pile of cornstarch, let it dry ... then load the cornstarch ( that now contains the psilo crystals ) into a gelcap. Keep that in a jar with dessicant and you have a ready to go psilo pill !

If I had a credit card I would order a Zeolite sample today. Alas at this time I have no credit card and no money . waaaaaah. I think I will call them up and find out a price for a sample. Peace.


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Offlinebrainwreck
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #962646 - 10/15/02 12:15 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

YES! I am very excited... my Zeolite is shipping today. I will start a new thread after I have tested all this out. Look for it in about a week!

In the meantime there is a study on Lyceum that concludes that anhydrous Methenol is over all the best extractor. Check that out. There are also a few (very few) accounts of people succesfully making pure extract and tripping hard with much less tummy upset. The accounts of bad success usually include some crazy mistake step like heating everything up.

Being a very experienced Triponaut, I will be able to confirm or deny this in a week.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #962722 - 10/15/02 01:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

hey brainwreck, i never have and never will believe any ad that claims it's product will do any job perfectly, whether it's designed to or not. i suppose the question is whether or not there is a need for the level of purity the sieve does afford.
personaly i think the extracion efforts exeed the payoff by far but if you are going to do it this might make things a lot easier (and cheaper).


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflinetelefunkenU47
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #963614 - 10/15/02 06:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

so are you selling this stuff or are you really just that excited about it?


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Invisible40oz
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #965208 - 10/16/02 05:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

the reason we are trying for anhydrous alcohol is so that we can evaporate a large extraction down to a few cc's;

with anhydrous alcohol we can make a stronger extract (by using more shroom and evaporating)





nice theory. but 1 q?
w/o gas chromotography, how would you know how much
active chemicals are in....lets say, "1 cc"
....psliocybin, psilocin, show low toxicity,
you would have to eat over a kilo of fresh cubs to kill yourself...(which vomiting would prevent)
...but i would never take your "pill"...unless proper tests have been made...ya know?




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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #965443 - 10/16/02 09:21 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I have done a methanol extraction and can say that the onset of effect is quite different than from the whole mushroom.I consumed an ounce of potent cubes extracted with anhydrous methanol.It yeilded aprox 1 gram of yellowish gum which I redisolved in fruit juice and immediatly consumed.The onset is similar to insufflated substances and I was nearly overwhelmed but after the intial up-ramp was complete I had a VERY spiritual experience.Good luck and may I recomend extraction as a interesting and different experience than the whole shroom.WR
PS this is probably the wrong forum for this so don't tell anyone n'k?  :grin:


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Edited by whiterasta (10/16/02 10:47 AM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: whiterasta]
    #965539 - 10/16/02 11:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"Yes, water is fine and maybe even beneficial for extraction ( I read that article too ), but the reason we are trying for anhydrous alcohol is so that we can evaporate a large extraction down to a few cc's, and not have whats left sitting in water. This is because water is known to degrade the psilo's over time. So with anhydrous alcohol we can make a stronger extract (by using more shroom and evaporating) that will have a longer shelf life, yet equal an extraction that includes water"

sorry but alcohol doesnt work like that. you can distill up to 95.6% and no further (unless vacuum distilled). you can dry it close to 100% BUT when it is left in normal air to evaporate it sucks moisture from the air and dilutes itself back down to 96.5%. so you will always have water in it.
your best bet is to forget the zeolites, extract with 95% then let it evaporate completely and put some more 95% back in


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Offlinebrainwreck
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: blackout]
    #965566 - 10/16/02 11:50 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

So, when they sell anhydrous alcohol for labs, it must be for use in sealed environments and vacuums I imagine. I guess the only way to reap the benefit of this would be to evaporate by vacuum instead of open air. This sure is becoming a project haha. But once I start something I must see it through so onward - ho.

So: any hints on what amount of vacuum is required to evaporate the alcohol without exposing it to too much air ?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: blackout]
    #965578 - 10/16/02 11:57 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This is true as even though I used a fresh unopened container of dry MeOH and did a closed extraction When I evaporated the extract and MeOH it absorbed H2O from the ambient air and the last portion of the drying WAS water(hence gum instead of yellowish crystals)As for future extractions I plan EtOH 95%+ a small amount of mild acid(probably citric or ascorbic) And a dessicant to completly dry without heat.I will also titrate the dose over a longer time as I said the up-ramp IS intense!WR :crazy:


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Offlinebrainwreck
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: whiterasta]
    #966061 - 10/16/02 03:58 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hey WhiteRasta -- That ounce of shrooms you extracted and took all of... was that wet or dry? 28 grams dry seems to me a rediculously high dose if they were dry.

One option I had not yet considered: what about running the extract and evaporated alcohol through the 3a sieve again after extraction and evaporation to remove water absorbed from the air so far... then storage as anhydrous alcohol to be evaporated at time of consumption.

So hey Chemists out there: Will a 3a molecular seive trap psilo crystals or will they remain in the solution ?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: brainwreck]
    #966809 - 10/16/02 07:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Reedick -Q- lussly HiiiiiiGhhh Yes.Dry weight ?Yes. Worth it ? Yes.And I regularly repeat doses up to one ounce dry weight.It seems as though I have an affinity for the experience after 25+ yrs of exploration.As for the dose it as I said is now titrated over several hrs after the extract ride(quite like a DMT flash at first and being unexpected,alarming :blush: )
And no a molecular seive if it will trap water it will probably also trap the much larger psilocin and even larger psilocybin or at least decrease yeild in the manner of excess charcoal.Have you considered adding a buffered ascorbic acid to the aqueous fraction as a preservative? Other wise dessicate the extract and add it to perhaps glycerin forming what in herbal medicine is called a glycerite.Some research into compatable preservatives seems to be a more productive line than maitianing an anhydrous state alcohol solution(especialy EtOH)Peace WR :laugh:


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: whiterasta]
    #966908 - 10/16/02 08:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't it possible that the reason you got a gummy extract instead of crystals is because you extracted the freebase (which I believe is similar to an oil) rather than using an acid to form a salt?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: psyphon]
    #967440 - 10/16/02 11:37 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That is possible  :ooo: But as it was immediatly recovered and added to orange juice I am relativly sure I consumed the citrate or ascorbate.Future ventures will use acidified 95% EtOH.As I mentioned the up-ramp from this prep IS INTENSE! Similar in high dose to a DMT flash.WR


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Offlinebrainwreck
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: whiterasta]
    #967615 - 10/17/02 01:05 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

whiterasta -- Is there an easy source for this buffered ascorbic acid?

Also, maybe you have an abnormally high dosage need. I would not recommend to anyone to consume an ounce of dried cubensis.

I have heard the seive gets hot. So the idea of dessicating the water afterward is out of the picture.

Please tell me more about this glycerin idea. I have heard the crystals oxidize quickly when exposed to air or water. That is why I wanted to store it in anhydrous ethyl alcohol.

But the idea of stashing it inside a preservative is indeed very attractive.

Any chemists have an idea what would be a good stablizer for those poor exposed crystals ? Will glycerin suffice? Maybe this needs a new thread.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Cheap Anhydrous Alcohol for Extraction [Re: whiterasta]
    #967668 - 10/17/02 01:23 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

whiterasta, i don't think the idea is to run the extraction through the sieve. i think it is to refine alcohol before the extraction so when it is performed and then evaporated there will be a smaller volume once all the alcohol is gone.
brainwreck, what i would be worried about is the source of the alcohol. if a very high proof methanol where used it might work but i dont' know where one would get 195 proof drinkable methanol without having to distill it oneself. if ethanol where to be used it would have to be verry pure to begin with so there where no dangerous petroliates(sp?) in it (unless this sieve would relyably remove any unwanted chemicals). either way i think it would be either very time consuming or very expensive.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


Edited by concretefeet (10/17/02 01:26 AM)


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