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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: mushroom extract [Re: Anno]
    #2977720 - 08/08/04 08:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm.... You seem to be correct. I guess assuming made an ass out of me. I just briefly skimmed over a phase diagram, however it turned out to be a water/propanol diagram. Sorry.

However, you are incorrect about evaporation and distillation being different processes.

I still see it being a problem to get your resin completely dry enough to make it safe to consume. It certainly can be done, but it sounds like a pain in the ass to me. If you use a two step extraction or some sort of a wash then it would be much easier to evap. With a crude extraction though, I would use something non-toxic and not worry about complete dryness.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: mushroom extract [Re: fastfred]
    #2977766 - 08/08/04 09:17 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

>However, you are incorrect about evaporation and distillation being different processes.


Evaporation(drying) and distillation are different processes.

With distillation you have a gaseous phase over your liquid phase with a certain composition, according the the phase diagram for each mixture. There is an equilibrium between the gaseous phase and the liquid phase at all times.

With evaporation, there is no equilibrium between the gaseous phase and the liquid phase, since the gaseous phase is mostly air(or any other drying gas) and the concentration of the substances in the air is only very minimal compared to what you have in the case of distillation.

Thus, those 2 processes are very different.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: mushroom extract [Re: Anno]
    #2977789 - 08/08/04 09:35 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I guess you have some sort of a point... However if you ran air through your still setup you would have the same thing.

I guess you learn something new every day... But, I wouldn't call them "very different", only slightly different.

If you evaped without blowing air across the surface, such as simply heating a solution in a flask, then you will still have the equilibrium issue. (I guess that's a crappy way to evap and still isn't quite the same as a one-ended system.)

Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't thinking much about saturation vapor pressure and equlibrium.

So if I understand correctly... No azeotropes will form without a liquid-vapor equilibrium?

Duh... I should have known that.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: mushroom extract [Re: fastfred]
    #2977931 - 08/08/04 10:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

>No azeotropes will form without a liquid-vapor equilibrium
Correct.

An azeotropic mixture is a mixture of 2 or more liquids which can't be completely separated through distillation, because at some point the concentrations of the liquid phase and the vapor phase are equal.

Distillation is possible, because(let's take methanol and water as an example) the concentration of methanol in the gaseous phase is greater than the concentration of methanol in the liquid phase. When you condensate this vapor you obtain a liquid which contains more methanol than the original liquid.

If you repeat this process many, many times(in praxis, this is done through rectification, which is basically a continuous multi stage distillation) then you would get a pure methanol at some point(pure in chemistry is alway to be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless).

With water and ethanol which form an azeotrop at around 95% ethanol, the vapor phase and the liquid phase will have identical concentration, thus when you condense the vapor phase, you get a liquid with the same properties as your original liquid, thus accomplishing nothing(there are other methods though how you can circumvent the azeotrop though, pressure variation and others)

Anyway, the point is when you are interested in evaporation of one or several solvents into air, the fact whether they form an azeotrop is not of interest because you never come into a situation where this would be of importance.


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OfflineAuroricDistortions
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Re: mushroom extract [Re: micro]
    #2983451 - 08/09/04 08:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Just saw this thread and figured I'd throw in a few pictures...

A few small mushrooms that were frozen fresh, then refluxed in boiling ethanol (denatured with methanol).



The result. This stuff remained as an oily substance, and wouldn't dry any further. It also smelled strongly of mushrooms.






3,5g cubensis in 5% acetic acid, after it sat for a few days, much more bluing (oxidation?) was observed, but only on the top layer of the liquid. The liquid was poured into a shot glass filling it 1/3 full. After 5 days of sitting in an open ended test tube, it still produced a strong trip.


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