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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
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mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt
    #1232164 - 01/19/03 08:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ever since my not-so-close associate began studding the secrets of mycology, he has been looking for a way to inexpensively and reliably produce crystallized psilocybin extract. Even with anhydrous ethanol he was unable to produce clean crystals, always ending up with a product full of dirty organic leftovers.

Then we ran across a post on some other website about mushroom extraction with the addition of HCl. This apparently converts the psilocybin to psilocybin hcl salt, which is supposed to be insoluble in acetone, forming large crystals.

What follows is my paraphrase of the process outlined. Go here for the original post

  • Powderize mushroom carpophores.
  • Soak in high proof alcohol for several hours.
  • Filter alcohol extract - recommenced vacuum filtration or syringe with filter.
  • Add a few drops of HCl to alcohol extract to ph3
  • Evaporate solution to 1/10th volume
  • Clean the solution of fats and resins by using a solvent that will not dissolve in water (lighter fluid, naptha). Allow to stand for several hours, then remove the top layer, which will be the solvent.
  • Slowly mix in acetone, let stand for a few hours until separated in to two layers. Remove the upper layer of acetone, and repeat acetone wash, and remove.
  • Allow residue to slowly dry. Crystals should form.

Does this process seem like a viable path to obtaining a relativily pure product? Has anyone ever attemped this or have experiance with a simial process? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.



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Offlinegrowin
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1232819 - 01/20/03 05:33 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

this method looks reliable...
u might wanna put the container with the alcoohol+mushis in a hot 'bath' and do 3 extracts from the same mushrooms.

http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

a growin original


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OfflineCrazy Dog
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1233302 - 01/20/03 08:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Be VERY careful with a hotbath - could blow up. Although, that would be the correct step


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1233832 - 01/20/03 12:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

X.O - We're looking for specifics about this procedure, and didn't want to clutter the other thread with unrelated materials. We had figured that that thread would remain on the topic of a liquid psilocybin extract; however, it has apparently taken a turn in this direction. Regardless, we're going to continue with this thread, and hopefully some people from the other one will have some input here too.

We do have a few questions that hopefully someone will have some insight into.

First off, we were thinking of using methanol instead of high proof grain alcohol as methanol is supposed to work better as a solvent for psilocybin extraction. There is information on this board as well as others that HEET fuel additive (the one in the red bottle) is supposed to be anhydrous methanol. Can anyone verify this? Is there any other material that would be left over in the final product?
Also, would adding HCl to methanol create any problems / bad reactions?

Next, we were wondering if naphtha is the same as naptha. Naphtha is sold as a paint thinner, and is petroleum ether, which is what we believe naptha is supposed to be. Are we correct in our assumption that these are the same? Can one/both/either be used safely for this procedure?

Because alcohol and naptha are both colorless liquids, how will we know when they are separated and how much to remove from the solution?

Hold on, almost done.... :smile:

Are HCl and acetone easy to procure? What would we be looking for (as in grade, concentration) for these materials? Are they watched chemicals in anyway?

And finally, does anyone have dosage information on psilocybin hcl?  Erowid lists a dose of pure psilocybin at 4 - 8mg for a medium effect. Does this change for the hcl salt? I ask because the author of the original post claimed to achieve about 10mg per gram of material. This sounds awfully high - 1g of mushrooms producing enough for 1.5 - 2 medium doses? Or is it because of the pure product, less will be lost through digestion?

We thank you for the feedback already received, and hope that someone or ones will be able to help with our questions!

Thanks a lot!!!!
And God Bless
jssmthrfcknchrst
 


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OfflineX.O
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1234025 - 01/20/03 01:02 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)



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I'm a huge idiot


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Offlinechills420
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: X.O]
    #1234104 - 01/20/03 01:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

LOL Damn this is sounding more and more like meth lab 101 LOL
The salt and liquid fire sound like basics for making it snow in a meth jar.

Wow never thought i'd use this know how again lol.


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Teach a man to make cakes he will trip for a night. Teach a man to case he will trip forever


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Offlinechills420
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: X.O]
    #1234105 - 01/20/03 01:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)


sorry double posted


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Teach a man to make cakes he will trip for a night. Teach a man to case he will trip forever


Edited by chills420 (01/20/03 01:29 PM)


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: X.O]
    #1234157 - 01/20/03 01:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What is the advantage of using Lye to basify the psilocybin over HCl?
Do these produce different forms of psilocybin?

My personal reaction to the idea of using drain cleaner over HCl... well, that just makes me feel like it cooking meth...I guess i could understand if the lye is clean, but it just seems wrong.

Thanks :grin: 


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst] * 1
    #1234265 - 01/20/03 02:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What is the advantage of using Lye to basify the psilocybin over HCl?
Do these produce different forms of psilocybin?




Lye (NaOH) and HCL are on opposite sides of the scale, so to speak. Sodium Hydroxide (lye) is a strong base with a pH of 14. Hydrochloric acid (HCL) is a strong acid with a pH of 1. Water, which is neutral has a pH of 7.

There is a chemical structure called an amine which is often seen in drugs. Amines have a neat property... they can be basic, or they can bond with an acid and form a salt. When they are basic, they usually do not disolve in water. When they are a salt, they usually do disolve in water.

By using sodium hydroxide (lye) we can rip the acid away from the amine making it insoluable in water. By using hydrochloric acid, we can form a salt with the amine making it soluable in water. Using this property, we can clean 'gunk' away from an amine by switching back and forth between salt or base. The process uses a solvent, but that is for another post.

This is the method used to pull DMT (dimethyltrptamine) from phalaris or to purify speed (amphetamine).

There are much better methods for extracting the magic from mushrooms.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: Seuss]
    #1234494 - 01/20/03 04:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sodium Hydroxide (lye) is a strong base with a pH of 14. Hydrochloric acid (HCL) is a strong acid with a pH of 1



This isn't quite true.. pH depends on concentration. A very concentrated solution of hydrochloric acid could have a pH of -1


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OfflineX.O
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1234819 - 01/20/03 07:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)



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I'm a huge idiot


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: X.O]
    #1235406 - 01/21/03 04:34 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The techniques in the link provided by growin do not result in a very pure product. Even though crystals do form, they are diluted when the rest of the solution evaporates. I suppose that one could filter the crystals out before the rest of the solution is gone, but that would be a waste of some product, and I am still not certain that the crystals are very pure.

Purity is what we are aiming for here; we want to study effects of specific doses. The naptha and acetone washes in the original procedure were supposed to help clean it. X.O's procedure also looks like it cleans the product quite well, but we are still leery of using drain cleaner to purify something (other than a drain).

Also, what are the stability issues with the different forms of psilocybin? Does the hcl have a longer self life over the base form? or the freebase (that's what it is called in the pf link)... Am I being redundant? I guess I still don't understand the different forms the psilocybin can take.

Thank you for putting up with my incompetence in these matters, please keep the great information flowing.

jssmthrfcknchrst


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OfflineX.O
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1236132 - 01/21/03 10:09 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)



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I'm a huge idiot


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: X.O]
    #1236219 - 01/21/03 10:44 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:smile: - X.O thanks for all the info and ideas - :smile:

Obviously I haven't taken Chemistry 101, and this is really interesting to me.
Sorry for all the questions, but they just keep popping into my head :smile:

Is psilocybin freebase different then if we would add HCl to it?
How stable is psilocybin freebase?
Would adding HCl convert psilocin to a salt? How would this affect stability?
How do the different forms affect potency?
Do you think the freebase crystals will be insoluble in acetone, washing the junk away, leaving the crystals? If not, would adding HCl to the acetone/psilocybin solution result in precipitation of psilocybin salt?

(off topic)
Are salts named for the acid that bound to the amine or is there really only one possible salt for the given amine? Example: HCl (acid) + psilocybin (amine) => psilocybin hcl (salt).

 


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Offlinechills420
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1236251 - 01/21/03 10:53 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What are you guys extracting from shrooms or cakes?
I find this to be very interesting.
Anyone got a digital cam they can take some pics next time?


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Teach a man to make cakes he will trip for a night. Teach a man to case he will trip forever


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
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Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: chills420]
    #1236284 - 01/21/03 11:08 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

We were thinking fruitbodies, but I think that these techniques would work for mycelium as well. You would probably have less organic junk from mycelium, but would pay for that with less active ingredients as well. We were also thinking of applying this to sclerotia as well, since that can be grown much more clandestinly than fruiting casings/cakes/bulk substrates. I wonder if it would be easier or harder to extract the good stuff from sclerotia.


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Offlinechills420
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1236333 - 01/21/03 11:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like to make some extra full rye bags and try to extract off of those.
I know i'll need alot but i plan on making them myself to help with the cost of doing this.
I've found a place where i can get rye berrys very very cheap local.
so the only cost would be the filter bags and spores.
I'm thinking of trying maybe 20 bags at once I feel that should do hell it's prob over kill.

Stones would be cool to extract from also.
I think if we can get it out of mycelium that would prob be almost the best way to go about it. My bags usually get 100% in 14-16 days it would be kick ass to beable to harvest then lol


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Teach a man to make cakes he will trip for a night. Teach a man to case he will trip forever


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: chills420]
    #1236378 - 01/21/03 11:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

To my understanding there is an extremly low amount of psilocybin in mycelium. I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but I think that doing an extraction on it would be a waste, requiring large amounts of solvent.

Also, since you would be using an rye, there would be extra organic junk in the extract, requiring further washing. The best way to get mycelium for this procedure would be to use a liquid substrate such as a malt mix or honeywater. (ala  The Psilocybin Producer's Guide)

If you're going to do an extraction, you might as well start with the most potent substance you can. Otherwise your product will be impure or just hard to purify.

Feel free to disreguard my comments :smile:
-jssmthrfcknchrst 


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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (01/21/03 11:46 AM)


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Offlinedumlovesyou
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Re: mushroom extraction - psilocybin hcl salt [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1236537 - 01/21/03 12:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I would be interested if you have another form of psilocybin the trip would be stronger. Though my mind can't think of that. An answer would be cool. Maybe at hive.


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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world


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OfflineX.O
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1238524 - 01/22/03 05:37 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)



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I'm a huge idiot


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