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Offlinespored
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Butane extraction?
    #1836697 - 08/21/03 11:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I was reading the methanol extraction post, I was wondering how would butane go as a solvent? Sort of like honey oil from cannabis.
So you get your dried shrooms and grind to a course powder. Then put them in a coffee filter and secure with wire. This is then put inside a jar or bottle with a valve fitted. You then spray butane into the jar so it covers the shrooms. I guess you leave it as long as you think necessary observing color changes.
You then put it in the freezer for several hours. You have a collection dish sitting in a very cold ice/water bath. You remove the jar/bottle from the freezer and unscrew the valve and then immediatly 'pour' it into the collection dish...the butane will remain liquid as long as its very cold.

Now the collection dish with butane alkaloids is slowly allowed to raise in temperature via lifting from ice bath and the butane evaporated off slowly,hopefully leaving behind pure crystals of psilocybin and psilocyin. Or alternativly,if the alkaloids remain stable in the butane it could be stored in small bottles and then when required for use a quick evaporation could be achieved in minutes. I guess slow evaporation would produce better crystals.

So any one tried this? Is butane a suitable solvent? Better or worse than methanol? It works well with cannabis and setting up a screw on valve on a bottle/jar is a piece of cake...butane is also a relativly clean solvent, evaporates easily,obviously boils at room temp.

So if someone does this let me know how it goes, just get the 'clean butane...theres two types. :smirk:


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Offlinekhufu
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: spored]
    #1836719 - 08/21/03 12:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think the same problms would exist with this tek that are encountered with standard ethanol/methanol extractions - if the butane does work it will likely pull out more than just pislo, it will pull out shroom matter as well. Evaporation will still leave one with a goo.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: khufu]
    #1837113 - 08/21/03 01:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm... I may give this a try, this method works very well for marijuana, it would be nice for it to work with shrooms as well. I have no idea if the butane would be a good solvent for the intended chemicals, but it is always worth a try.


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InvisibleArsey
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1847789 - 08/25/03 10:46 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Butane acts as a non-polar solvent with the exception of when the temperature and pressure is within the supercritical range.

Methanol is an aprotic solvent with a high polarity

Ethanol is also aprotic with a strong polar affinity

Simply put butane has a greater affinity to dissolve non-polar things like oils when it's not under pressure, it makes a good substitute for non-polar solvents like hexane, toloul and naptha thus, it's not necessarily a logical choice for things that are soluble in high polarity readily solvents such as water and/or alcohols.

A note on aprotic solvents....
I imagine these can create some confusion, aprotic solvents are things like alcohols, glacial acetic acid, dmso and numerous others. Aprotic simple means they have dual polarity, dissolving both nonpolar and polar solutes.


Edited by Arsey (08/25/03 10:59 AM)


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Offlinespored
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: Arsey]
    #1853929 - 08/27/03 04:42 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ok I hear what your saying,but the extraction would be done in a pressurised vessle...so maybe it would dissolve the alkaloids? But I guess,as you suggest,it dissolves oils which is what you don't want.

Which makes me think regarding a typical methanol extraction...the oils and fats which remain are the gunk you want to get rid of. Would it be possible, to seperate the oils and fats from the alkaloids via a semi permeable membrane? In other words, you have done your methanol extraction...maybe the fat molecules are signifignatly larger than the molecules of psilo? So a semi permeable mebrane could act as a sieve of sorts...osmosis that sort of thing?


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InvisibleArsey
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: spored]
    #1854279 - 08/27/03 11:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Ok I hear what your saying,but the extraction would be done in a pressurised vessle...so maybe it would dissolve the alkaloids?"

The "maybe" depends on the pressure and temperature. At the right temp and pressure it'll reach the super critical range where it's possible to make the butane dissolve polar solutes in essence as if it were water. The technique is called "super critical fluid extraction" it often employs CO2 but butane, propane and propene can be used in some instances.

"Would it be possible, to seperate the oils and fats from the alkaloids via a semi permeable membrane?"

Basically column or paper chromatography does that. The chems diffuse through a column of silica or a piece of paper and then the desired fraction is cut out and extarcted once again with solvent.

An alternate theoretical concept would employ using direct electrical current in a buffered gel matrix. Similar to the concept of electrophoresis.

The intent is to develop a way for amateur mycologist accurately asses the potential of toxic compounds. It is being provided here for just that and thus it is for informational and education purposes only. THIS information IS NOT intended to assist anyone in extarcting psilocin or psilocybine analogs!

A small rectangular dish filled with a buffered agar solution (Made using a 3% gel prpared by mixing 1.8gm of agarose in 60 ml of distilled H2O and some sorta acidic salt for a buffer to keep the ph slightly below 7, brought to a careful boil) is poured and allowed to cool. The agarose gel needs to have a two buffer wells with electrodes (preferrably carbon rods but Al foil would work too) placed on each end. In addition, a small series of wells are also created into the face of the gel near one end of the dish. The wells can all be made using stryfoam spacers that can be removed once the gel solidifies.

The crude extracts, possiblely with a small amount solvent and buffer..maybe glycerol added to the buffer solution... are placed in the wells. A DC charge from say five 9Volt batteries connected in series is used to charge the apparatus... after some time the chems will begin to migrate through the buffered gell matrix, they will do this at different rates and form individual lines.

The lines may not be visible to the naked eye, some may require uv light to detect. Of course staining the run of one well by brushing it with "metol" from a dark room supply store will stain all the indole compounds blue, that run would then serve as a reference to the other runs. For example if one well was filled with a sample of a known mushroom extract containing dangerous indoles and the other an unknown after an hour the two runs could be brushed with metol to see how the indole compounds compare. Likewise other reagents could be used as stains to identify other compounds.

The concept is basically a spin off from the December 1998 Scientific American article "Sorting Molecules with Electricity" by Shawn Carlson. You can find more on the web as "kitchen electrophoresis" the experiments usually employ separating the colors in plant extracts.




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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: Arsey]
    #1859189 - 08/28/03 03:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Arsey said:

"An alternate theoretical concept would employ using direct electrical current in a buffered gel matrix. Similar to the concept of electrophoresis."




My question is, how effective can this method be in isolating a specific compound? I mean, is it possible to end up with a very pure sample? It seems it would be very hard to figure out the exact rate at which the desired chemicals would migrate to the wells.


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InvisibleArsey
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Re: Butane extraction? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1860265 - 08/28/03 08:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The rate isn't necessarily vital if the parameters are keep the same it's the distance they travel.

If you ran it for a set period of time the same compounds would migrate to same distance each time as long as the same buffer conc, voltage, gel density, duration of applied current and depth are used.

After a couple of runs you'd have an idea how many millimeters someting would travel.

As far as efficacy?

This concept is not so theoretical although the apparatus as descibed is crude but 'zone electrophoresis' to separate and quantitaively analyze compounds is nothing new.

********************************************************************

Pedersen-Bjergaard, Stig. et al. Strategies for capillary electrophoretic separation of indole alkaloids in Psilocybe semilanceata. Electrophoresis 19. 27-30 (1998).


School of Pharmacy, University of Oslo, Norway.

A capillary zone electrophoretic (CZE) method was developed for the rapid determination of psilocybin in Psilocybe semilanceata. Following a simple two step extraction with 3.0+2.0 ml methanol, the hallucinogenic compound was effectively separated from matrix components by CZE utilizing a 10 mM borate-phosphate running buffer adjusted to pH 11.5. The identity of psilocybin was confirmed by migration time information and by UV spectra, while quantitation was accomplished utilizing barbital as internal standard. The calibration curve for psilocybin was linear within 0.01-1 mg/ml, while intra-day and inter-day variations of quantitative data were 0.5 and 2.5% R.S.D., respectively. In addition to psilocybin, the method was also suitable for the determination of the structurally related compound baeocystin.



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