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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Solvent question.
    #1158532 - 12/20/02 04:00 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Is this stuff pure? It appears to be only denatured alcohol. Ethanol and Methanol. What do you think?

$3 @ Walmart



its pretty hard to read but the important part says
'Contains Ethanol, Methanol'
it gives no other references to other additives.

It 'Thins shellac. Cleans glass and metal. Clean-burning fuel for marine stoves'

thanks


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Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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Edited by Cow Shit Collector (12/20/02 04:01 PM)

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Invisiblezeta
Stranger

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Posts: 3,972
Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1158859 - 12/20/02 06:06 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

The same stuff over here (it's called methylated spirits) contains about 90% ethanol, 10% methanol plus pyridine (to make you barf) and blue dye

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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1158962 - 12/20/02 07:04 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

If your worried I suggest you get a bowl and fill it up with the alcohol and let it evaporate to see if there's any residue left.

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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1159183 - 12/20/02 08:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i wouldnt use that as a solvent if you are planning on consuming the final product. denatured means that they intentionally poisened it so people dont drink it. so there would proly be some very bad residue


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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1159207 - 12/20/02 09:10 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

if it's denatured, it's not pure. combined with the fact that it's cheap, the question is, what isn't in it.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1159270 - 12/20/02 11:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i would do what daussaulit suggested. however, i'd be surprised if there wasn't some unpleasant residue left behind after evaporating. out of curiousity, what's your plan?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: rhizo]
    #1159402 - 12/21/02 02:38 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Read the small print and you'll probably find a Benzene warning somewhere.NO HARDWARE STORE SOLVENTS ARE CLEAN ENOUGH TO INGEST IN ANY FORM!!!!!
Good Luck,WR :wink:


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Offlinemoorhsum
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1159698 - 12/21/02 06:37 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

As a solvant, why not just use 99% Isopropyl alcohol?


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We are the counter-culturaly elite...

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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: canid]
    #1159739 - 12/21/02 07:02 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

if it's denatured, it's not pure. combined with the fact that it's cheap, the question is, what isn't in it.




If it's denatured it usually means that methanol(wood alcohol) is added, which makes it undrinkable, unless you like to be poisoned and want to be permanently blinded.

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: daussaulit]
    #1160646 - 12/21/02 03:39 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i'm not planning on drinking any of it. a solvent would evaporate.  It sounds as though there may still be some unpleasantries in this junk tho.  anyone have any experience with solvents.  I dont want to spend an arm and a leg for some pure ethanol or methanol but i'd rather be safe then sorry  :laugh:


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: daussaulit]
    #1161113 - 12/21/02 08:25 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

yes, usualy. not always.
metyhanol isnt' the only adative used in denatured alcohol.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: daussaulit]
    #1161114 - 12/21/02 08:25 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

[edit: oops, double post.]


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Edited by concretefeet (12/21/02 08:28 PM)

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: canid]
    #1161290 - 12/22/02 01:15 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

rat bastards!  :mad:

Anyone know a good source for pure denatured alcohol or pure methanol/ethanol?


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Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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Invisiblecheesenoonions
??????????????

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 584
Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1161386 - 12/22/02 03:12 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Everclear will give you Ethanol. i am not sure about what proof you need. maybe you should get some glassware and learnto distill chems

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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1161945 - 12/22/02 09:05 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You going to try my idea? Just spend $3 for that can that you saw, pour into a bowl and let it evaporate? That's probably your best bet. I'm pretty sure no residue will be left.

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: daussaulit]
    #1162404 - 12/22/02 01:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I'll try this. tonight and get back to you.

EDIT:
put a small ammount of the alcohol in a half pint.
It seems completely clear. Strong ethyl alcohol smell.
Updates to come


--------------------
_______________________________________
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Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

Edited by Cow Shit Collector (12/22/02 01:14 PM)

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1162653 - 12/22/02 02:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Again I warn you against "harware store solvents" Industrial methanol(the denaturing agent) is contaminated with benzene and will leave it in your final product as an impurity even after evaporation.Please consider this as a source of clean EToH of 99+%.

First create a space (small room,big closet) and seal it.use a dehumidifier to lower the RH as much as possible and do this.

1)get some everclear(95% EToH)

2)get some calcium chloride(dri rite)

3)add 1cup dri rite to 1l everclear

4)shake and then let stand

5)filter through coffee filter

6)filter through charcoal

7)filter though coffee filter again

8)bottle and cap tightly until use

This will yeild 99+% EToH if performed quickly in a very low humidity. Cap the result tightly as alcohols are hygroscopic to a degree and if left open will reabsorb H2O from the air.

Methanol is the prefered extraction solvent but I have had good results with slightly acidified(a few mls of ascorbic acid solution @ 10g/L) EToH.My extracts do not store well for over a couple weeks but I know they are food grade and not contaminated with toxic metals or hydrocarbons as is EXTREMELY likely from OTC solvents.Only reagent or pharmaceutical grade solvents should be used if one cannot use food grade EToH.These grades of solvents while not impossible to obtain they are difficult and dangerous for the average layman to purchase via chem suppliers.I will probably catch flak for this but I've read (and done :crazy: yrs ago to get LSA) about using Lighter fluid and other stuff in A/B extractions,Butane honey oil,etc and the contamination in all of these solvents is usually benzene which is a severe carcinogenic.As well much industrial  MEoH is contaminated with organometalic compound formed in the synthesis. I hope this will be of help to you  :wink:  WR



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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Solvent question. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1164338 - 12/23/02 07:14 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Erowid's Solvents FAQ

I'm going to contact the company about the purity of this product.


--------------------
_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1164911 - 12/23/02 11:19 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

In responce to an email i sent to 'Klean Strip' about the purity of their denatured alcohol they sent me:

"There is also a very small amount of Methyl Isobutyl Ketone"



and here is a Fact Sheet on the chemical.

Very small residual left in the test 1/2 pint container. Its slightly cloudy and odorless. I would think this stuff would be ok. The effects of the keytone are not to bad from what i've seen. maybe its possible to heat it out?

any comments


--------------------
_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

Edited by Cow Shit Collector (12/23/02 11:49 AM)

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OfflineSomeMycologist
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Registered: 12/22/02
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1164921 - 12/23/02 11:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

i w oudnt use as a solavent


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If you cant beat them, join them, then beat them!

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Solvent question. [Re: SomeMycologist]
    #1165029 - 12/23/02 12:25 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I guess my body is my temple, but this stuff is significantly cheaper than purified stuff


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CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1165160 - 12/23/02 01:30 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

"There is also a very small amount of Methyl Isobutyl Ketone"





This is a very volitile solvent and would not leave a residue in pure form.

In reply to:

Very small residual left in the test 1/2 pint container. Its slightly cloudy and odorless. I would think this stuff would be ok. The effects of the keytone are not to bad from what i've seen. maybe its possible to heat it out?




you can try but if any residue is left I would find another solvent.What is the can made of? do you know why they make stills out of copper for alcohol? Alcohol stored in steel becomes toxic wth organometalic compounds(probably what you have in the bottom of the flask) GOOD LUCK you will need it if you are willing to use something which leaves an obvious residue.............WR


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1165217 - 12/23/02 02:03 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

sounds risky. I wouldn't try it.

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Posts: 1,959
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1166031 - 12/23/02 11:25 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

everything is gone in the 1/2 pint and the guy said it was pure.


--------------------
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Offlinecanid
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1168562 - 12/24/02 07:14 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

i have no idea what the evaporation temp of Methyl isobutyl Ketone is it but you might be able to get much of it out through distilation. if it evaporates at a lower temp than ethanol, it will end up in the heads, if it evaporates at a higher temp, it'll be in the tails. this will not, by any means, get all impurities out, or even all of the targe impurity, but if you know the evaporation point of your target, you can get most[/] of it out. as long as you have a little confidence and common sense, this distilation could be done with a simple water cooled, glassware, pot-type still. just don't under any circumstances use aluminum or any chromed metal, as you will end up with a host of new impurities in the solvent. also, you would have to be verry careful exercising such a proceedure indoors.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1169023 - 12/25/02 05:35 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

200 proof ethanol would be my choice [lab work is nice, sometimes :smile:  ] but one thing that would concern me if using mixed volatiles----What are the possibilities that some of these compounds could form less-volatile intermediaries when mixed with organic material? 
I can't think of any particular reactions off-hand, but it would be akin to treating things with bleach.  It's not really the bleach itself that would concern me, but rather the chlorinated organics, dioxins, that result from mixing the two. 
O-chem was awhile ago, any feasable reactions between ketones/aldehydes/etc. and organic material that would form more stable [potentially] nasty compounds? 

Compounds that could remain in crystallized form?    Just a thought. 

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Suntzu]
    #1169317 - 12/25/02 08:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I would DEFINATELY be concerned about reactions with the MIBK especially if heat is used to drive off the solvent.I really don't understand why anyone would use a questionable solvent when food grade EToH is available.If you ARE determined to use this cheap stuff at least pass it through activated charcoal to clean it up a bit more.If the MIBK is in small enough concentrations this will help remove some of it.When reducing the final product, after no smell remains allow it to stand for several hrs more to assure ALL volitiles are removed.If you are using this I have to assume you are not capable of distilling a more pure product but would encourage you to learn.Poisoning yourself slowly by playing Dr Jekyll is rediculous when better options are available.Again Good Luck........ :smirk: WR 


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1171695 - 12/26/02 02:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i think this shits out of the question. It just seemed a very cheap alternative to an otherwise expensive endevour. Anyone know of a good online store or location to obtain food grade pure solvents like denatured alcohol or ethyl alcohol? in the 99-100% range?
average prices per L?


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Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1172540 - 12/26/02 06:41 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

there's no such thing as food grade denatured alcohol. ideally, you want chem grade solvents. unfortunately these are next to impossible to get for cheap.
you can distill ethanol to a good purity, then use something like epsom salts to get out almost all the the remaining water (though you'll realy never get it all).
if you have a good use for solvents, odds are such an undertaking isn't out of your scope.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Offlinebearstalker
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: SomeMycologist]
    #12356606 - 04/08/10 05:01 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

whats your thaughts on using "cellulose thiners".

here the info on it:-

http://www.birdbrand.co.uk/msds/Cellulose%20Thinners.pdf

is it a viable and safe solvent to use for the extraction of LSA?

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: bearstalker]
    #12361360 - 04/09/10 11:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like a real bastard mix of nasty solvents.  What in the hell would make you think using it would be a good idea?


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Offlinebearstalker
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: fastfred]
    #12361429 - 04/09/10 11:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Looks like a real bastard mix of nasty solvents.  What in the hell would make you think using it would be a good idea?


-FF




It is a bit of a mix, but it evaporates extremely cleanly.

I was thinking about using it, but then i looked at the info for it.
I thought id ask your opinions on it anyway.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: bearstalker]
    #12361473 - 04/09/10 11:37 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

It's a bastard mix of eight different solvents.  Dealing with just one is already enough of a problem, so I don't think a crazy mix like this is a good idea.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Offlinebearstalker
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Re: Solvent question. [Re: fastfred]
    #12361843 - 04/09/10 12:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

that's basically the same thoughts i had after looking at the info.

im deffinatly not gonna use this...lmao

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