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Super critical Extraction
    #5898938 -

If someone was to try super critical extraction would thay get the active tryptamine to strip out?

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5899048 -

Where the hell are you going to get that kind of equipment?

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5903258 -

It actually doesn't require more than about $20 worth of the RIGHT equipment and some dry ice to do a super critical CO2 extraction. Some might argue it requires huge gonads as well, but that can be minimized with the proper precautions.

As far as whether it will extract tryptamines... there really isn't any reason it shouldn't. Caffeine is definitely extracted as are various essential oils, etc. The only issue might be the overall efficiency, but maybe that could be overcome with multiple runs through.


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Echoes

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: wietstocker]
    #5903531 -

Thanks, thats cool. if i had a cylinder just write it would keep the S C fluid still liquid in the shroom mix an there fore get most of it out I'm thinking that it will. (y dry ice whats that 4?)


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5903552 -

fastfred said:
Where the hell are you going to get that kind of equipment?

PVC Pipe and a bit of thought. easy as.


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5904454 -

Hmm... I'm not up on supercritical extractions. I would be careful with that. Especially with homemade equipment.

You really can't get any better or easier than alcohol extractions though.


-FF

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5906125 -

Its not that bad. Butane is a bit how u going. Co2 gets a bit colder than butane which makes it harder 2 get 2 flow but butane stinks. I'm thinking that if u get it 2 flow in2 a liquid that wont freeze, u could freeze (in the freezer) out the tryptamine without the ass taste. what do u think? any takers. Thanks 4 responding. Stay cool.


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5906129 -

hhhhh


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5906132 -

I've seen honey oil from weed, but I have never thought of doing it with shrooms. Great idea. I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Most chemicals are not destroyed at very low temperatures, and super critical extraction is the premiere method for high quality herbal extractions. I'd love to hear how it goes.


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Nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love.
- The Beatles

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: tallgreen]
    #5906201 -

Very interesting ideas.

Butane and CO2 are both completely non-polar though so that may present a problem. Psilocybin and psilocin are fairly polar molecules so I'm not sure that they would be soluble in butane or CO2.

Hmmm... I'm reading that supercritical CO2 has both non-polar and polar character.

"Although carbon dioxide is often classified as a non polar solvent it has some affinity with polar solutes because of its large molecular quadrapole."

Also says it can extract organophosphates.


Hmmm.... Here you go...
G. Pereira, M. O.M. Marques, Alaíde S. Barreto, A. C. Siani, E. C. Fernandes, M. A. A. Meireles.
Extraction of indole alkaloids from Tabernaemontana catharinensis using supercritical CO2+ethanol: an evaluation of the process variables and the raw material origin,
J. Supercritical Fluids 2004, 30, 51–61


-FF

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5906229 -

Here are some snips from the full article. Hope this helps because I'd really like to see this tried.

Quote:
Indole alkaloids from Tabernaemontana catharinensis, collected from different places, were extracted using a mixture of supercritical CO2 plus ethanol. The effects of the process variables: temperature, pressure, solvent flow rate, and percentage of cosolvent on the total yield, chemical composition of the extract, and extraction kinetics were determined.

At 250 bar and 45 °C the largest yield (1.29%) and the faster extraction rate were obtained; increasing the percentage of cosolvent improved the extraction rate as well as the yield.

The use of supercritical fluid has been considered a good option for extraction and/or fractionation of natural products, particularly for food and pharmaceutical ingredients. The easy removal of solvent from the final extract, the high selectivity and the use of moderate process temperatures are the most significant advantages of supercritical fluid extraction (SFE). The use of supercritical CO2 to extract alkaloids such as caffeine from coffee beans and tea has generated many patents [1]; nonetheless, the extraction of several other classes of alkaloids is still an open field [2].

Increasing the amount of cosolvent, that is, for an assay performed with 9.2% of cosolvent (at 55 °C, 300 bar) it was observed that doubling-up the percentage of cosolvent produced an increase not only of the RT (0.91%) but also in the ratio AF/CE (65.9%) compared to the results obtained with 4.6% of cosolvent at the same operating conditions.




I don't know how the hell you're going to do it though. Seems kinda dangerous to me.


-FF

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5906254 -

Homelessbum said:
PVC Pipe and a bit of thought. easy as.


Quote:
"Once the system reached and stabilized at the operating pressure (200, 250 or 300 bar), the valves from the extractor's outlet were opened and the extraction process began."


Uhhhh.... 200 bar is 2,900 psi. I don't think you're going to get that with a PVC pipe.

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5906266 -

Quote:
CO2’s critical pressure is about 1,070 pounds per square inch (psi) and critical temperature is about 31 degrees C, so supercritical applications using CO2 typically operate at temperatures between 32 degrees C and 49 degrees C and pressures between 1,070 and 3,500 psi.



No 32C @ 1070 psi = no supercritical CO2 to extract with. It would just be liquid CO2, which wouldn't extract polar substances.

Bummer...


-FF

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: tallgreen]
    #5906408 -

U don't need that kind of presser thats a bomb. It can be dun with the presser that it builds itself, its cool how it works. this polor thing has me thinking, which ever way it goes easy 2 get ether poler or non poler liquid 2 drain into and freeze. Y make me think hard. or is that poler in the butane. might hav 2 try No2. what u think?


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5906773 -

There are small plastic vials made by VWR (I think) that can be filled with crushed dry ice and withstand the pressure buildup without causing the big startle. One unit of this specific make of vial was successfully used 40 times without any mishap whereas other manufacturers' products always failed after a few attempts if they worked at all.

It is a lot of pressure that builds up inside. One would certainly want something sturdy to take the bulk of the force if heaven forbid it should happen to rupture.

The vial leaks a little bit at the cap so after 5 or so minutes the pressure has equalized. But this also means that the dry ice has to sublime quickly. Place it in some warm water.

After the pressure has equalized, the product should be in the bottom of the vial.


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Echoes

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: wietstocker]
    #5909477 -

No plastic vial is going to hold 1,070 psi.

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5910194 -

Homelessbum said:
what u think?


I think if you want to post in the advanced mycology forum you should do so using proper English. I also suspect you don't have the first clue what you are talking about.

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: fastfred]
    #5911253 -


ALthough we didn't affix a pressure gauge, Yes a SPECIFIC kIND of plastic vial IS going to hold enough pressure to do a supercritical extraction of eugenol, cinnemaldehyde or other essential oils from herbs and spices. I have seen it done before my very eyes.

I've seen it done in a lab. And it didn't require anything that someone at home couldn't make or obtain. We certainly had our goggles on and hood shields closed, but it indeed worked without tragedy.


I'll also reiterate that it was done 40 times with the SAME VIAL.

I would assume this technique would work flawlessly with fairly nonpolar substances like DMT which form oils easily. On psilocin or psilocybin, however, I have no experience so I don't entirely know.

This type of supercritical extraction is quite new, "green" chemistry, which may be documented with a simple google search.


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Echoes

Edited by wietstocker (07/29/06 06:59 AM)

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: wietstocker]
    #5911613 -

sounds interesting. but can it be done? and where does one get Dry ice? how would you store it? and i mean what kind of lab set up can a guy buy? 20$ sounds too low to me. i bet you can't even get Dry Ice for 20$


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~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5911756 -

There are a number of places to locate dry ice (some hardware stores, packaging/shipping stores, fishmongers, and grocery stores [just ask the guys who work w/ the frozen foods]). I have coworkers who regularly take home coolers of dry ice. Often you can attain it for free in the same way you can attain cardboard boxes -- just ask.

Granted, I'll let YOU try out the process.


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop


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Re: Super critical Extraction *DELETED* [Re: cloudtop]
    #5911898 -

Post deleted by Tamadragon

Reason for deletion: ... ...



--------------------
~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5912459 -

Dry ice can be purchased from my university stockroom for absolutely next to nothing. The site is forbidding me access after a year or so, but if I recall correctly, a kilo of dry ice was less than $10. Our work was microscale for the most part so that amount would be more than ample for our application (and undoubtedly much safer). I think in the end we used roughly 70 mL of crushed dry icve. We ended up with 5-10 mg eugenol from perhaps a gram of crushed cloves.

The interesting thing about this experiment is that I too was expecting lots of equipment. But I was dismayed while at the same time a bit enlightened that it required very minimal labware. Filter papers and this plastic vial were essentially all that were needed as far as equipment goes. We had stands and some clamps which could either be improvised or left out entirely if the setup was right.

At the same time, though, I've got to admit that while trying this out, I saw it as a little pointless. We compared the supercritical extraction to a steam distillation and I honestly would prefer the distillation. Plus it can be scaled up with ease.

Let me attempt to access the experimental procedure for that supercritical. If anyone is interested checking it out, let me know.


--------------------
Echoes

Edited by wietstocker (07/29/06 04:03 PM)

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: shroomydan]
    #5913212 -

shroomydan said:
Homelessbum said:
what u think?


I think if you want to post in the advanced mycology forum you should do so using proper English. I also suspect you don't have the first clue what you are talking about.

What do u think this is an english class? get a life dan!


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hi there

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Re: Super critical Extraction [Re: Homelessbum]
    #5914320 -

he's a mod do you want to catch shit? you do need to articulate what you want to say otherwize we don't know what the heck you mean. and this is an english forum. mmmmkay?


--------------------
~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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