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 micro
bunbun has a gungun
 
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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 Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals  [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1990632 - 10/08/03 04:21 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Probably. It does a pretty good job sticking to glass.... I always had to scrape it off with a razor blade. Why parchment paper?
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Micro
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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1990676 - 10/08/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I saw someone had some honey oil on parchment paper and it wasn't sticking to it(on overgrow), and you know how honey oil is. I just needed some way to work with it after I got it scraped so I could weigh it and stuff . Maybe I should let it dry more.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1991562 - 10/08/03 10:07 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea, parchment paper works pretty good.
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trade_om
An Old Omelette
Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 172
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: ionic]
#2716812 - 05/22/04 10:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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OK here's a quote from the Ask Dr. Shulgin site. Dont know if any of you guys know it, but it appears its alot easier to isolate pure compounds from the msuhrooms then you thought -
"Psilocybe Mushroom Extractions
Dear Dr. Shulgin:
A friend of mine performed a Soxhlet extraction of 12 grams of powdered Psilocybe cubensis, using 95% ethanol. When the 60 mL of extract cooled to room temperature, many small transparent, colorless crystals had formed on the bottom of the container and did not redissolve on agitation. Do you know what these crystals are? -- Journeyman
Dear Journeyman:
There is a fascinating report in the literature that gives a quantitative measurement of the efficiency of extraction of both psilocybin and psilocin from the mushroom Psilocybe bohemica. The citation to the article is Kysilka, R. and Wurst, M., Planta Med. Vol. 56 pp. 327-328 (1990). These Czechoslovakian scientists studied the efficiency of both methanol and ethanol as solvents, each containing varying amounts of water. The results were, to me, both unexpected and most provocative.
The isolation of psilocybin seemed to be quite reasonable. This alkaloid is reasonably soluble in boiling water from which it can be nicely crystallized. It is less soluble in boiling methanol, and almost insoluble in boiling ethanol. And the extraction efficiency is optimum with methanol and almost as good with ethanol. With both, the less water present, the better. The compound is, after all, a perfect example of a zwitterion, the internal salt of a phosphoric acid and an amine base.
But the numbers with psilocin are strange. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it. These researchers were apparently surprised by these findings, as they explored further and uncovered other clues. Time is a factor. Psilocin is extracted at a much slower rate than is psilocybin because it is contained intracellularly in the plant, and thus slower to be gotten out. They conclude that many of the low psilocin assays of mushrooms are due to this difficulty of getting the alkaloid out of the plant and into the extracting solvent. Using this information they determined that the levels of psilocybin and psilocin are substantially the same in Psilocybe bohemica, in conflict with the published literature values where very small amounts of psilocin were observed.
Efficient extraction apparently requires patience.
As to the identity of the crystals that were drifting around in the cooled Soxhlet receiver, from their being insoluble in ethanol, and white, and transparent, I would guess that you are seeing pure psilocybin.
-- Dr. Shulgin"
Here is the link - http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htm
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YesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: trade_om]
#2717561 - 05/23/04 05:40 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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**From The Hive , posted by Yachaj**
"" Further simplification:
1) instead of MeOH take 140 proof EtOH (70 percent EtOH, 30 percent water). The advantage of this liquid is that it extracts both PSOH and PSOP at low temperatures, in 12hrs time, but it is not as toxic as MeOH and more commonly available.
2a) evaporate it down until everything is just liquid. Add plenty of 190+ proof EtOH and a few drops of HCl. PSOP precipitates out!
2b) you can also evaporate all the 140 proof. The end result is a piece of brown gunk. This piece can be placed in 190+ proof EtOH (+ a drop of HCl). Don't touch it, just watch. In a few days to a week, lots of white dust separates from the brown gunk and collects on the bottom of the container.
Correct me if I am wrong but my explanation of the phenomenon is as follows. Compare it to a bottle of NaCl saturated water, which is visible because of the thin layer of table salt on the bottom. It looks as if the salt doesn't dissolve because the water has dissolved all the NaCl it can hold. But in reality the salt is constantly dissolving and precipitating at the same speed. So the layer stays the same.
Now compare this to a brown gunk of urea/psop with impurities in a bottle of 190+ proof EtOH with HCl.
Slowly the brown gunk dissolves, releasing both urea and PSOP. Urea stays in solution but the solvent is saturated with PSOP HCl in no time. It precipitates out!
But nevertheless, more PSOP HCl is dissolving from the brown gunk. And precipitates out. The chance for an individual PSOP HCl particle to precipitate back into the brown gunk is much smaller compared to the chance of precipitating on the bottom of the container.
Even more funny: the solvent is saturated with PSOP HCl. That means that, if you know the quantity of PSOP HCl which is dissolved in this solvent, at this pH and temperature, (in mg/ml), then you know exactly how many ml are needed for a dose. And this is totally independent from the potency of the mushrooms. Just prepare the PSOP in EtOH&HCl mixture and you know how many ml are needed.
No chromatography. No scales (except for the 1st time to determine the solubility data). No weird solvents, no rocket science - just vodka (separated into its constituents, EtOH and dihydrogen monoxide). Fat chance that the HCl isn't even needed. ""
Original Thread
Now other thing :
If u prepare tea with mushrooms ,let to room temp then place the extract in a ice bath , some white stuff precipitate .Rewash crystals with acetone to discard impurities .
But the yield is quite bad .
In this 2 techniks , u will extract psilocybin but not ( or really less) psilocin .
Psilocybin is quite stable compare to psilocin but only active orally .
So some guys prefer to extract psilocin , so they should follow this tek .
"Rhodium dephosphorilate psilocybin to psilocin with acetic acid "
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God  save the Queen
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City 
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: trade_om]
#2719887 - 05/23/04 07:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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This has been discussed many times. The reason Shulgin came up with the results of psilocybin solubility in aqueous alcohol solutions is because of the enzymatic dephosphorylation of psilocybin.
--
Micro
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Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#2806396 - 06/18/04 03:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually boiling water should completely denature the enzymes responsible for the dephosphorylation at temperatures well below the boiling point of water. Unless there are some unusual heat shock proteins in Psyilocybe sp. then you won't have to worry about further enzymatic conversion. If in doubt the mushrooms (whole or powdered) can be dropped into already boiling water which will heat kill the enzymes within a very short time period.
Sometime this summer I will see if my fuzzy friends can do some reasonably efficient extractions with various H2O and EtOH solutions. Might be able to check the results with GC/MS, but that will depend on availability at the time.
If the recrystallization is done in a glass container, reasonably pure, and dry then there should not be any difficulties removing the crystals using a small steel spatula/spoon.
good luck everybody
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: Alkaloids]
#2806425 - 06/18/04 04:04 PM (19 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you are using boiling water why not just do an A/B extract? You can't expect to recrystallize without first doing an appropriate extraction -- there are far too many compounds in mushrooms soluble in boiling water or alcohol or both.
The "enzymatic degredation" had to do soley with some experiment Shulgin did that said psilocin was more soluble in aqueous solutions of alcohol (enzymes are usually inactive in anhydrous alcohol.) They should both (phosphorylated or not) be really alcohol soluble -- that's all.
Boiling water should denature enzymes -- I agree, but without water enzymes aren't really active, anyway, and they should be extraced out with water in an acid/base extraction.
--
Micro
--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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 Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#2944414 - 07/30/04 11:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Excellent points. Next time I'll try not to post when I am that tired.
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