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PNutButta
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/03
Posts: 114
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1984193 - 10/06/03 03:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Adding small amounts of HCl, one drop at a time to a Methanol solution will cause precipitation.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1984466 - 10/06/03 05:02 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been researching and come to the conclusion that psilocybin is not affected by heat(not too much heat anyway). So a boiling water bath to evap in wouldn't harm the psilocybin just the psilocin, correct
A friend of mine left a hot water extract to evap in a steaming hot water bath and accidentally fell asleep and everything evaped even the water in the bath. Don't know how long this set like this (maybe 2-4hrs.) Will this degrade the psilocybin? Psilocybin has a melting point of 220-228? C. The temp was well below that.
@PNutButta--Sounds feasible
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1984657 - 10/06/03 06:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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MH -- it shouldn't break the psilocybin down right away, but enzymes can. Don't know details, but I'd eat it right away
PNutButta -- any references? Have you done this yourself? It doesn't really make sense to me -- psilocybin seems to dissolve in protic solvents when acidified -- why would adding HCL make it precipitate out of an alcohol?
Just curious.
-- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1984787 - 10/06/03 07:00 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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when buying hcl, which concentration is good ?
i heard the solution should be brought to ph 3, so how much hcl of which concentration is approximately needed on 10 ml solution ?
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: invi]
#1984847 - 10/06/03 07:29 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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the denaturated ethanol i can get ist denaturated with "Methylethylketon"...can i safely use it ?
i think so, cause i read up in the net that it is a solvent that will easily evaporate at roomtemp.
i hope without any leftover...
anyone knows better ?
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: invi]
#1984857 - 10/06/03 07:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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How many drops do you want to add before something will happen?
-- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
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Loc: Brick City
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1984883 - 10/06/03 07:45 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Invi -- denatured ethanol just has 5% methanol/isopropanol in it. It will safely evaporate and leave your product, but don't ingest any of the alcohol. Once it evaporates it's gone -- just make sure you smell no alcohol after it's dry.
-- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1984948 - 10/06/03 08:12 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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i do not understand, what you are really asking for; think is my english
i found a recipe, which sounds good to me on the net, and wanted to know how much HCL i should use :
Quote:
1. Powder mushrooms in blender
2. soak powder in 140 proof ethanol = 70 percent alcohol. Soak for 12 hours (or so), in the fridge but roomtemp is probably OK too.
2a)Then pour the liquid through an old white t-shirt or so in a 2nd jar. Fill a syringe with it, attach a filter and empty the syringe in jar no. 3 The filtration can be done with a disposable 0.2 micrometer liquid filter for syringes (handpowdered, so no electricity or adspirator is needed) because you do not need to save the insoluble particles. The filter can be discarded.
3. evaporate the liquid (big shallow dish, table fan) to 1/10 of the volume (until it has just not begun to crystallize out)
4. add a few drops of hydrochloric or muriatic acid to convert all ionic and freebase alkaloids into salts
5. put the acidified extract in a tall vial
6a. remove resins with naphta or petroleum ether. These liquids float on top of the extract. To remove the resins, just add naphta or pet ether, shake, let settle and remove/separate the layers with a pipette or syringe. Discard the naphta/pet ether. 6b. repeat step 6a.
7. Now add acetone and repeat step 6a+6b. 7a) wash with 95 percent alcohol (cold)
The dark granular stuff which remains is a mixture of alkaloids. Among those are the alkaloids you want.
8. Add 190 proof or 95-96 percent ethanol (denatured alcohol is no problem as long it is denatured with methanol or acetone). Close the vial and place it in boiling water. If you have a small, thick walled glass bottle or vial you can even place it in a pc.
9. Wait until the vial is of the same temperature, take it out of the water and allow it to cool down to slightly below the boiling point of the ethanol (so you can safely open the lid) Suck up the liquid in a syringe, filter it and allow it to cool down slowly.
9a) The fine white crystals which precipitate (rain down) as first from the solutiuon is what you are looking for. White psilly crystals precipitate, urea stays in solution (as long as you don't evaporate the liquid too far of course).
10. Remove the excess liquid with a pipette or syringe. Save the crystals.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1985114 - 10/06/03 09:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info Micro. Could you explain more on the enzymes breaking down psilocybin or provide some links.
Quote:
micro said:psilocybin seems to dissolve in protic solvents when acidified -- why would adding HCL make it precipitate out of an alcohol?
Very good point.
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1986618 - 10/07/03 11:26 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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i am in search for naptha or petroleum ether. Actually i am living in germany, i know i can get the stuff from a pharmacie, but i found 2 things much cheaper :
1)turpentine replacement its mostly (solvent)naptha but also with "paraff. , aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons" paraff. is for sure paraffins...
2)brush cleaner also mostly (solvent)naptha but with "nonionic tensides"
i think the first one should evaporate without any leftover, the second will leave over some tensides after evaporating....
am i right ? anyone knows ? cause i dont want to have some chemicals of the solvents left in my "endproduct"...
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
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Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: invi]
#1987066 - 10/07/03 02:24 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't trust anything that has additives. You want your solvents absolutely clean.
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cricket
Lord Cricket
Registered: 08/29/03
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Loc: in my house, in front of ...
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1987075 - 10/07/03 02:27 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Zippo lighter fluid is usualy made from Naptha.
-------------------- I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: cricket]
#1987325 - 10/07/03 03:49 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think as long as all the additives will evaporate like the solvent there should be no problem - no one wants to drink/smoke/... naptha; but we dont have a fear cause everything of it evaporates.....
the problem with lighter/zippo fluid : i did not find one package with a real list of ingridients....
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: invi]
#1989437 - 10/08/03 07:44 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Invi -- Get some muriatic acid from a home supply store (a lot of times in the gardening center) -- this is concentrated HCl.
MH --
"The occurence and extraction of indole derivatives in six species from four genera of higher fungi were investigated. By using pure methanol concentrations of psilocybin and baeocystin. The psilocin content of the species was higher by using aqueous solutions of alcohols than with methanol alone but was an artificial phenomenon caused by enzymatic destruction of psilocybin."
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_journal1.shtml
Hot water will extract a lot of enzymes (dephospholrylases?) which could convert psilocybin -> psilocin (unstable.) Heating also makes the enzymes work faster, up to what point I don't know (they should just stop and start to denature at some temp.)
Making tea obviously works, though, so the psilocybin can last a while. Over a matter of hours, though, I don't know -- if it wasn't boiling it might be o.k.
-- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
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Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1989491 - 10/08/03 08:33 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info
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Infrared
sleeping
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: invi]
#1989721 - 10/08/03 10:38 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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naptha is crap, i wouldnt use it for anything that you plan on consuming. denatured ethanol or straight methanol is the best for a 4-ho-dmt extraction. toulene would be good if you wanted to recrystalize your final product.
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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invi
journeyman
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 51
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: Infrared]
#1989882 - 10/08/03 11:41 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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its not really for extraction... its for washing the extract....
the naptha and everything in it will be disposed...
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1990157 - 10/08/03 01:22 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Micro, you said you've never got any to precipitate. What about PF's infamous chilled ethanol crystals? Have you tried this. You seem to know more about this kind of stuff than me, so, is PF's method even feasible?
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micro
bunbun has a gungun
Registered: 05/09/03
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#1990318 - 10/08/03 02:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think he said to evaporate it, too. I don't think it would be efficient to just precipitate and filter because you'll prolly still have a lot left in the solution; depends on the Ksp but it's not only soluble in hot ethanol so I would think you'll lose a lot in solution. It would have to be toyed with, though -- I've never tried chilling the alcohol, just evaporating it.
Ethanol won't yield a pure product, anyway, so it wouldn't really be much different than just filtering and evaporating it, which works fine. If you want a pure product you have to extract it further than just alcohol.
-- Micro
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Actual Extractors, Psilocybin Crystals [Re: micro]
#1990495 - 10/08/03 03:27 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Gotcha. Do you or anyone know if this brown gunk left behind from extractions will stick to parchment paper? Stuffs hard to work with.
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