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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267270 -

Right, and expression of emotions indicates attachment.  :rolleyes:

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267277 -

Veritas said:
:lol:  That was definitely not my point.


I was just demonstrating my internal conflict in case you hadn't noticed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
    #9267279 -

deCypher said:
I'm fine with you expressing your subjective opinion on relative awareness levels.  In fact, if people never expressed their opinions the world would be much more boring place.

But please don't call your opinion a fact.  It's not that I don't believe what you say, it's that I don't believe that what you say is automatically the truth just because you're "aware" of it.


A fact is truth.

It is true to me that Bush lacks self-awareness compared to an experienced Vipassana meditator.

Expressing this is an opinion.  An opinion you can disagree with, that is fine.  But what is true to me is true to me. 

I am aware this very moment.  This is truth.  Expressing this to you right now is opinion.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267294 -

Veritas said:
Right, and expression of emotions indicates attachment.  :rolleyes:


When someone is balling their eyes out, are they not attached to their emotional state?

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267301 -

I am currently aware that 2 + 2 = 5.

This is truth.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267305 -

It is just as true then, that meditators are full of horse pucky.:shrug: I mean it's true to me.

Of course that makes truth into a joke.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267311 -

Quote:
Fact:

1.the quality of being actual

2 a: something that has actual existence
  b: an actual occurrence

3. a piece of information presented as having objective reality.


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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267328 -

deranger said:
Veritas said:
Right, and expression of emotions indicates attachment.  :rolleyes:


When someone is balling their eyes out, are they not attached to their emotional state?


Not unless they cling to the state after the initial emotional response has passed.  BTW, it's "bawling."

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267351 -

Maybe he meant balling.:doggystyle: One does get kind of attached to it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
    #9267352 -

deCypher said:
I am currently aware that 2 + 2 = 5.

This is truth.


If that is the truth to you, cool.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267360 -

Veritas said:
Quote:
Fact:

1.the quality of being actual

2 a: something that has actual existence
  b: an actual occurrence

3. a piece of information presented as having objective reality.




Yeah, and people actually do become attached to their emotions/thought patterns.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267366 -

Veritas said:
deranger said:
Veritas said:
Right, and expression of emotions indicates attachment.  :rolleyes:


When someone is balling their eyes out, are they not attached to their emotional state?


Not unless they cling to the state after the initial emotional response has passed.  BTW, it's "bawling."


I'm not talking about after the emotional response has passed.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267392 -

deranger said:
deCypher said:
I am currently aware that 2 + 2 = 5.

This is truth.


If that is the truth to you, cool.


Awesome.  Might I suggest appending IMO or some other signification in front of statements that are actually opinions and not declarations of objective reality, just so we know for future reference?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267435 -

deranger said:
Veritas said:
deranger said:
Veritas said:
Right, and expression of emotions indicates attachment.  :rolleyes:


When someone is balling their eyes out, are they not attached to their emotional state?


Not unless they cling to the state after the initial emotional response has passed.  BTW, it's "bawling."


I'm not talking about after the emotional response has passed.


Then you're not talking about attachment.  Attachment, also called "grasping" or "clinging," is a mental action in which one refuses to allow impermanent states to pass.  When someone is attached to an emotional state, they use their thoughts to artificially prolong or intensify the state when it begins to pass.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
    #9267450 -

deCypher said:
deranger said:
deCypher said:
I am currently aware that 2 + 2 = 5.

This is truth.


If that is the truth to you, cool.


Awesome.  Might I suggest appending IMO or some other signification in front of statements that are actually opinions and not declarations of objective reality, just so we know for future reference?


Actually, I think it is objectively true that Bush lacks self-awareness compared to some people.

This is an opinion I just spouted, but I feel it to be very true.

You don't have to agree with me that this is true, that's cool.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267470 -

Yes, but this is P&S.  Do you have a justification for this statement?  :wink:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9267535 -

Veritas said:
Then you're not talking about attachment.  Attachment, also called "grasping" or "clinging," is a mental action in which one refuses to allow impermanent states to pass.  When someone is attached to an emotional state, they use their thoughts to artificially prolong or intensify the state when it begins to pass.


So when one is "bawling" their eyes out, they are not attached/identified to that emotion?

Quote:
at⋅tached
–adjective
1. joined; connected; bound.
2. having a wall in common with another building (opposed to detached ): an attached house.
3. Zoology. permanently fixed to the substratum; sessile.


When one is bawling, they are connected to their emotional state.  I don't get your logic.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
    #9267550 -

deCypher said:
Yes, but this is P&S.  Do you have a justification for this statement?  :wink:


Can I prove I'm on mushrooms hallucinating myself as a strand of DNA?

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267557 -

No, because that's a subjective statement of personal experience that can't be denied.

Saying Bush has less self-awareness is an objective statement that should be backed up or justified in some manner if you hope to use it in philosophical debate.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9267559 -

By that definition, everyone is "attached" to their emotional state 24/7, as we are always connected to our emotions.  We are discussing the Buddhist concept of attachment, which is a mental habit of denying the impermanence of reality.

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