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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9261310 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
No, but sitting in front of the TV


And the target moves once more... :rolleyes:


Good one.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261317 -

deranger said:
Oweyervishice said:
deranger said:
This is the truth to me.  And yes this is and opinion.  But behind the opinion I believe lies truth.


This makes no sense.


To you.


Behind my opinion that it makes no sense lies truth.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9261331 -

And a peanut-butter-and-grape-jelly sandwich!  Mmmm...

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9261337 -

Oweyervishice said:
No, you can be aware of your belief that you know someone's internal state.  That doesn't make it true just because you are aware of it.


In a deep state of meditation beliefs no longer exist.

No, I'm not saying I'm in a constant state of meditation all the time, making everything that I say true.

But I am aware that one can be directly aware of one's internal state, to some degree.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261340 -

Yes, you can be aware of your own internal state.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9261342 -

We have a winner! :trophy:


--------------------

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261350 -

deranger said:
No, I'm not saying I'm in a constant state of meditation all the time, making everything that I say true.

But I am aware that one can be directly aware of one's internal state, to some degree.



Now, you're sounding like a skeptic.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9261356 -

Quote:
And a peanut-butter-and-grape-jelly sandwich!  Mmmm...


Before indulging try my peanut-butter bread experiment over a clean floor. I would be interested in your observation and results.


--------------------

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9261367 -

Oweyervishice said:
deranger said:
Oweyervishice said:
deranger said:
This is the truth to me.  And yes this is and opinion.  But behind the opinion I believe lies truth.


This makes no sense.


To you.


Behind my opinion that it makes no sense lies truth.


Behind my opinion that it makes no sense to you, lies truth.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9261370 -

Veritas said:
Ah, I see, you're talking about some type of direct awareness, absent the filters of perception?  Yeah...good luck with all that!  :smile:


I'm working on it.  It'll be a life-long journey.

Kind of an empathy thing.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9261373 -

Veritas said:
Yes, you can be aware of your own internal state.


Ever heard of empathy?

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261374 -

Uh oh. Runaway loop. Stop the madness! :eek:


--------------------

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9261378 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Uh oh. Runaway loop. Stop the madness! :eek:


Get your ass over here and tie me up to a cross like Jebus, I'm going mad.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261392 -

Empathy is an emotional experience.  Judgment is an intellectual interpretation.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9261412 -

Awareness is not judgment.

Empathy is the awareness of feelings, thoughts, or states of mind of others.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261419 -



Well, I know it as fact.  You can call me delusional and belief-fueled, I don't care.

Hard to have respect for this kind of thinking. Every born again Christian etc. works like this. It's really a sad state IMO. And you can't debate it because the true believer has no evidence for belief. I will respectfully suggest this belongs in the Mystery forum.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261430 -

Eh, no, empathy is not mind-reading.  To empathize means to identify with (and share, to some degree) the emotional experience of another, not to read their thoughts or become directly aware of their state of mind.

Stating as fact that someone else lacks self-awareness is an intellectual interpretation called "judgment."

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
    #9261446 -

Quote:
deranger said: In a deep state of meditation beliefs no longer exist.


:rolleyes:  You obviously believe that a deep state of meditation eliminates all beliefs, so this statement is self-contradictory.

No matter how hard you try, escaping a certain set of beliefs (or your reality paradigm) is impossible.  You believe that Bush is less self-aware than Icelander; you believe that a person who does nothing but watch TV for fifty years is less self-aware than someone who does not.

Regardless of much more likely it is that Bush is, in fact, less self-aware than Ice, you still cannot claim this as a fact, as this is your personal, subjective, and unjustified opinion.  I'm sure that if we polled a Bush supporter they would not agree with your position.

Moreover, what are you basing your position on Bush's self-awareness on?  IMO you're relying your beliefs on your perception of him via the media and nothing else--have you personally carried out a conversation with Bush?  Have you kicked it with Bush and a beer at his pad?  IMO your statements are wholly unverifiable and lacking in firm logical foundation.

What if watching TV for fifty years allowed you to perceive through the consumerist bullshit that's being piped through the media stream and fully realize the truth behind humanity?  Who are you to judge what is self-awareness and what isn't?

/end rant.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
    #9261458 -

Who are you to judge what is self-awareness and what isn't?

You put your finger on the problem as I see it. It's the self importance of the individual which creates the belief that they know what is true, what is real and what isn't.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/17/08 05:13 PM)

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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Veritas]
    #9261479 -

Veritas said:
Eh, no, empathy is not mind-reading.  To empathize means to identify with (and share, to some degree) the emotional experience of another, not to read their thoughts or become directly aware of their state of mind.

Stating as fact that someone else lacks self-awareness is an intellectual interpretation called "judgment."


I never stated empathy is mind-reading. 

It is the understanding of their internal state of being, including awareness.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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