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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings...
    #8810239 - 08/22/08 12:03 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

that today's 'spiritually sensitive' would like them and us to be...

WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY!

Violence, opportunism and aggression are what got us to the top of the food chain.

Denying that is denying our history and genetic makeup.

There is some evidence that Neanderthal, far from being a caveman-like brute, may have been more intelligent and more passive than homo-sapiens. Where is these somewhat more gentle species today?


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810646 - 08/22/08 01:27 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
that today's 'spiritually sensitive' would like them and us to be...

WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY!

Violence, opportunism and aggression are what got us to the top of the food chain.

Denying that is denying our history and genetic makeup.





So do you assume that whatever got us to where we are is exactly what we need to advance from here? 

We still act out of instincts that would benefit a hunter-gatherer (aggression, paranoia, boasting, xenophobia, overeating, hoarding, etc.) yet in a civilized society, these motives often lead us into trouble.  Our technologies have changed our environment so rapidly that there is a growing incongruity between the behavior our impulses suggest and the behavior that is good for us.

'Spiritually sensitive' ideas such as unconditional love, unity, subjective reality, and compassion represent a conscious departure from what our old-fashioned caveman nature would have us do, in order to find a more efficient way to operate.  The incessant resistance against them is no wonder, considering how perpendicular they are to the behaviors and attitudes of our caveman ancestors.

Quote:

There is some evidence that Neanderthal, far from being a caveman-like brute, may have been more intelligent and more passive than homo-sapiens. Where is these somewhat more gentle species today?




I don't know if that's true but if it is, I suppose that heightened aggression provided an edge for the homo sapiens during the time they were competing with the Neanderthals.  That does not mean becoming more aggressive is useful for today's humans.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8810669 - 08/22/08 01:33 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Yes, but if our ancestors were the fluffy cloud idealists chock so full of sugary love that it would send a diabetic into a coma, we would not be here to have this discussion.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810694 - 08/22/08 01:37 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

I know, you said that in your original post.  I agree.

Do you honestly think all spiritual ideas are the same homogeneous fluffy idealist bullshit or is that just your caveman impulse to categorize indiscriminately acting up again?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8810715 - 08/22/08 01:41 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: Veritas]
    #8810728 - 08/22/08 01:44 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

I can't believe I wrote that. I must have been channeling someone else. :lol:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: Veritas]
    #8810735 - 08/22/08 01:46 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

So I pass the Master Swami Zen test?

Can I have my Nirvana now?  I want it so bad.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: Veritas]
    #8810741 - 08/22/08 01:48 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

top of food chain?
intersting take on life.
guess it matches domination,subjugation,
brutalization


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8810751 - 08/22/08 01:49 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Why, you had it all along, my dear!



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8810769 - 08/22/08 01:53 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Most everyone is all for saving the bears, wolves, mountain lions etc., but face one in the wiild about to kill you and your 'we are all one' compassion and loving stance will change quickly - at least for the moment.

When Grizzly Man joked on video about being eaten by the bears in Alaska and talked about how much he loved them, didn't stop him or his girlfriend from screaming in terror when they were being eaten alive.

:nicekitty:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810777 - 08/22/08 01:55 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Yes, if he had truly loved the bears, he would have chopped himself into bite-size pieces to make himself easier to consume.  :lol:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: Veritas]
    #8810780 - 08/22/08 01:56 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Those look a lot like mine. Not good for long walks though, more of a Studio 55 kind of night out thing.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: Veritas]
    #8810802 - 08/22/08 02:00 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Yeah, he would have laid out in the sun smothered in hickory smoke BBQ sauce.


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810803 - 08/22/08 02:00 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

It doesn't mean you love something you can't eat it. Take your gf for example..


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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810910 - 08/22/08 02:19 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Uh, yeah... if the only danger humans faced was bears, yes we'd be better off as paranoid, club wielding thugs.  As far as I know, for most of us, day-to-day suffering does not take the form of bear attacks.  It takes the form of unfulfilled desires, attachment, envy, fear, addiction and alienation; these phenomena are exacerbated by the caveman MO's of aggression and greed.

When it comes to acute moments of physical danger, we still have access to the fight-or-flight response (not that it's likely to save us from an aggressive bear.)  That does not invalidate the benefit in refining our attitudes away from aggression and separation and towards the spiritual ideals I mentioned.  I don't know about you, but I'm talking about a balanced approach to living life.

Of course it's okay if you disagree.  Spiritual development is a solo activity.  You can experiment with becoming more like a caveman, while I explore spiritual traditions; then we can compare results.  I'll go meditate and develop my capacity for love and compassion, you can walk down the street in a loincloth, cannibalizing passers-by, dominating other males and raping women.  Let me know how it works out for you.



--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8810957 - 08/22/08 02:29 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

And what happened to integrity?

Not too long ago, you were complaining about the dudes on the top of the food chain. :rolleyes: Flip flopper.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisible513orangejuice
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8811016 - 08/22/08 02:43 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

That does not invalidate the benefit in refining our attitudes away from aggression and separation and towards the spiritual ideals I mentioned.  I don't know about you, but I'm talking about a balanced approach to living life.






awesome, balance is important in all things. extremes are also of the most concern in matters like these: too much happyness results in too much sadness/ too much you hurting people = too much people hurtin you, ....so... to use this to your advantage, hurt very little to never and you will hurt very little to never, never love anything too much when its here because the more love it when you have it, the more you hate losing it when the time comes for it to leave, something cant be without also not being, you cant have a video game long before its old and boring, even just as it was new and exciting once bofore. extremes are bad. you are so right about balance!


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                        America is a rapist.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: 513orangejuice]
    #8811144 - 08/22/08 03:08 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

anyway I think that good people do the work, and dominators and opressors steal the work an rewrite history.

I am not sure this needs to change.
we can see through it.

I try to hide while being as excellent as possible inside the work that will not be known as mine.

in that way I am not at the top of the food chain, but I have enough preservative in me to get a good shelf life.

I think that the top of the food chain is a form of parasite to help people like me keep the middle strong.


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8812894 - 08/22/08 10:15 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I can't believe I wrote that. I must have been channeling someone else. :lol:




:banbanban:.......


So what will the humans of 2525 look back and say about their ancestors in the early 21st century?


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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: If our ancestors were some folk's idealized loving beings... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8812925 - 08/22/08 10:23 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Top of food chain...?

Last time I checked, tigers could rip humans to shreds.

And in regards to this post's original question--

Is it a GOOD thing that we are here having this discussion? Maybe we wouldn't be, in these exact bodies... but we might be thinking these thoughts.

Surely there could never be any stopping the 'chi' of the universe from always existing. Where does a circle end? You can't stop what never started. Though your form might not have developed, since your genetic makeup might not have been formed by your parents copulating, the 'chi' of life that flows through all of us that makes us one and the same would be there. There's really no difference whether you are here, or I am here, or tomorrow if you are not here or I am not here...

Someone here will know what I mean.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING


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