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 The Tourist Visiting Stranger  Registered: 04/11/08 Posts: 145 |
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Sorry if what I'm saying sounds like "bullshit" to you, but you need to read what I say and discover what I think, rather than instantly generalize and group me with "weak kneed, pussified apologists for thugs". It would be a lot easier to back up your "bullshit" claims if they weren't incorrect and unrelated, especially the Ann Carson part. Or was she a big fan of Saddam's? Either way, I clearly am, right?
Ask yourself a simple question... What would you choose, nearly 2 million dead human beings, or an assassination of Hussein? We've already overthrown countless democratically elected leaders, assassinated many political figures, backed and directly supported dozens of dictators (Saddam being one of them) and supported terrorist groups all over the world. What is one more assassination? And a warranted one, at that? If we wanted that filthy, evil scumbag out, we wouldn't have supported him, given him weapons on many occasions, authorized and supported foreign and internal aggression on his part, and then starved and weakened all of the Iraqi people to effectively prevent them from doing anything about the man they were opposed to. By the way, Saddam was so blown away and demolished by the Persian Gulf War that there is no way he would be a threat to anyone in the world. Did you know that after Bush and the propaganda system started churning out the kill-Saddam battle cries, the U.S. was the only country on earth who saw Hussein as a threat, according to polls? No countries in Europe did, and even Kuwait and Iran didn't. I'm not saying Saddam wasn't a disgusting dictator, but I am saying we haven't done a whole lot right either. My problem with the U.S. going after dictators (and annihalating countries and their peoples in the process) is that a.) We aren't concerned about human rights and conditions as we say we are, and b.) (most importantly) we are so hypocritical it's not even funny. And sadly we look at someone like they're crazy when they say so. If we are willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars "freeing the Iraqi people", why aren't we doing shit about the situation in Darfur??? And why can't we feed the entire continent of Africa at that? Why didn't we do anything about Why did we support violent terrorist groups in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan, and many other countries? Why have we overthrown human-rights-abiding, democratically elected leaders in Chile, Iran, Haiti, Venezuela, Argentina, etc? Why are we using millions of pounds of depleted uranium munitions in Iraq? All that aside though, I say it's wrong to kill millions of people through economic and medical strangulation. You say I am an apologist for Hussein if I think it is evil. You, sir, are someone I don't ever want to be around. -------------------- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krishnamurti "That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.” Noam Chomsky
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 Seuss Error: divide byzero    Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 1 year, 7 months |
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> Saddam was so blown away and demolished by the Persian Gulf War that there is no way he would be a threat to anyone in the world.
Hindsight is 20/20. Go back and read your daily journal (you do keep one, yes?) and recall what you were really feeling and thinking at the time. Saddam was putting up a good show that he had bad things and the world believed him. To sit back now and claim that "there is no way he would be a threat to anyone in the world" is a huge misrepresentation. Saddam could have ended the entire ordeal at anytime by allowing in UN inspectors. Instead, he called the US bluff, again, only to find out that it wasn't a bluff, again. > You say I am an apologist for Hussein if I think it is evil. No, you appear to be an apologist for Hussein because you ignore his contribution to igniting the events that followed and pretend that the US was completely to blame (as I see it from your various posts. Of course, I could be wrong). -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214   Registered: 05/31/07 Posts: 17,582 Loc: Americas |
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Saddam was being obstructionist, up untill he realized bush was crazy enough to actual start a war over weather balloons and scary things like imaginary bacteria and uranium ore. At the end, Saddam was being more cooperative, and just as he started to cooperate, bush decided to unilaterally wage war and frame it as if he had no choice. I recall quite clearly what I was thinking at the time, and it was "so what". I knew there may be things I didn't know, which their weren't, but the evidence they had wasn't overly concerning. I had a chance to speak w/ a former weapons inspector not too long after the war, and he stated the same things I was reading in the paper: the inspectors were finally getting access. There was no rush, no reason we couldn't have given them more time.
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Seuss Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 1 year, 7 months |
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> There was no rush, no reason we couldn't have given them more time.
I won't argue against that. However, Saddam had a history of pretending to be 'more cooperative' and then deciding otherwise. I'm not trying to clear Bush and the US. Instead, I am trying to point out that Saddam was not some innocent victim of US aggression. There is fault on both sides. -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod horrid asshole  Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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Here's one of the big bullshit parts:
This is, of course, a lie. All of these sanctions could have been removed at any time by Saddam's own actions, which were quite clearly spelled out. Food and medicine were allowed in. One person and one person alone was responsible for the sanctions. Further, your number is complete bullshit. What source did you use for this information? There really can be only one. The Iraqi Health Service Are you that much of a dupe? [Rachel Carson was the writer who wrote Silent Spring which led to the banning of DDt and the inevitable consequence of millions dead of malaria] Another piece of nonsense:
According to polls? Are you fucking kidding me. Since when are such decisions made based on polls? Since when do the polled have the information on which to base such a decision? "Bush and the propaganda system?" What utter nonsense . The same position had been taken by the previous administration and by almost all of the members of the intelligence committees. The only propaganda I am aware of is what you have apparently been victimized by if you believe the sanctions killed over a million. Further, perhaps you have become aware of the UN Oil For Food Scandal. You know, where workers at the UN and French and Russian nationals pocketed billions of dollars that were supposed to be spent on food and medicine for the Iraqi people. These were bribes being paid by Saddam with his people's money so he would eventually get all sanctions lifted and get back to business as usual.
Then maybe Saddam should have stopped stealing the money and complied with the terms of the agreement which he accepted. I myself would have pressed the first Gulf War to unconditional surrender but there were too many international pussies. Too bad. You have a nice fictional narrative going on in your head that seems to alleviate any responsibility on your part to take action against dangerous thugs when possible. You would wring your hands and say "this is deplorable" all the while doing nothing but enabling the thugs. Darfur? Maybe your wonderful people of Europe could take that up since you seem to find no ambiguity there. Which side should be opposed? The government thugs or the Islamist thugs. Maybe Zimbabwe?
Too bad, your education will remain woefully inadequate and your worldview as stunted and naive as it is now. -------------------- 
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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Given that he had been playing three card monte for over a decade and was bribing the shit out of the UN Security Council with stolen money I see absolutely nothing hasty about our timing. On the contrary, that game had been played for far too long as it was. --------------------
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Virus_with_Shoes Pastor of Muppets  Registered: 01/25/07 Posts: 3,707 Loc: Zuid-Holland, Ne |
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It's about time we started introducing some sources into these discussions.
Well, perhaps an exaggeration but hardly a lie: World Health Organisation (April 2003)- Annual mortality rates and excess deaths of children under five in Iraq, 1991-98 "According to these calculations, the estimated number of excess deaths resulting from the Gulf War and its aftermath up to 1998 was between 400,000 (assumption a) and 500,000" (page 2) Oh okay, 400-500,000...no big deal right? Mind you that's only up to 1998. It doesn't even include 1998-2003 which probably had plenty of casualties. If you say "bullshit" to one's claim without offering any sources of your own are we just supposed to take your word for it?
Sure Russian and French nationals were involved yet I noticed you neglected the US' role in the scandal. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/me "The unclassified State Department documents sent to congressional committees with oversight of U.S. foreign policy divulge that the United States deemed such sales to be in the "national interest," even though they generated billions of dollars in unmonitored revenue for Saddam's regime." So basically everyone was in on it and benefited from this scandal, including the French, Russians, US and Saddam, which leads to your next point about him being the sole bearer of blame for the deaths during the sanctions. I'd argue that both the Oil-For-Food Programme and Saddam have an equal share in the blame. The money that Iraq received during the sanctions from oil revenue was controlled by Saddam and he spent little of that fortune on food and medicine for his people as was stipulated by the agreement but rather on consolidating power over his people. The sanctions and the resultant OFP Programme did not do what they were intended to do because they enabled Saddam to gain strength and wealth via oil revenues and lined the pockets of Western businessmen while Iraqis starved to death and died of treatable diseases. It was Saddam's fault for ignoring the sanctions and the UN's fault for putting such stupid, ineffective measures forth in the first place. -------------------- 
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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I'm not buying that either. This shit has been hammered unto death and into the ground on this very forum years ago. He offered zero sources to refute and you offer, "estimated" Oy vey, these lies never fucking go away. Let me get this straight, you accept the information garnered from interviews conducted by people under the watchful eye and thumb of the very despot who is trying to get the sanctions removed. Not to mention that food and medicine were not ever proscribed imports. Why oh why do I have to fight wave after wave of the same recycled nonsense? At any rate what is irrefutable bullshit is that the sole person responsible for those sanctions was Saddam Hussein. And what's up with the PDFs and how did you cut and paste the fucker?
From your link also:
And:
What seems to be missing from the "stretching of the limits" is the bribery angle and the surreptitousness. I repeat "It was accepted in the Security Council." What was not accepted in the Security Council was the other stuff going on with the French, the Russians and several indicted and convicted UN officials. That was not permitted. Clearly.
If it is sanctioned it isn't part of the scandal.
This is like blaming the cops lack of oversight for the actions of a criminal and then trying to acquit the criminal on that basis. Absurd. My point, and it is the only necessary point, is that Saddam Hussein was solely responsible for the presence of the sanctions. It was wholly within his power to end them at any time. It was also in his power not to steal the money. At any time. I am quite aware that the UN is utterly inept at everything. Yet another argument why it was well past time to end the charade. --------------------
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The Tourist Visiting Stranger Registered: 04/11/08 Posts: 145 |
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I fully accept the things that Saddam did to incite things, as I fully accept the evils and atrocities he carried out. All of this is common knowledge, and I guess I wish I had acknowledged it more.
What I criticize is the U.S. reaction to the events. What good is it to criticize basic and accepted evils that another country carried out and whose former dictatorial leader is now dead? I am criticizing the actions of the country I am a citizen of and that I can contribute to changing. -------------------- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krishnamurti "That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.” Noam Chomsky
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Virus_with_Shoes Pastor of Muppets Registered: 01/25/07 Posts: 3,707 Loc: Zuid-Holland, Ne |
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You're not buying it but then again you have no sources of your own to refute this point so who really gives a shit? I gave you a World Health Organisation report and all you've given is your opinion, which unless backed up by figures means fuckall. This is hilarious, you're basically saying that a bunch of crafty Iraqis duped the UN (by lying in every single one of their interviews) into believing that 500,000 civilians died and they bought it hook line and sinker. Not a very well conceived argument. Why would you possibly think Saddam wanted the sanctions removed? He had everything to gain from these sanctions and they played perfectly into his hand, allowing him to starve and impoverish his people rendering them too weak to rebel against his authority. That's every tin-pot dictator's wet dream come true. Let's not forget the killing he was making off of oil sales made possible via Oil-For-Food. Why on earth would he want the sanctions to end? Makes absolutely no sense.
Just highlight, copy and paste like you would any other document.
You've missed the whole point of that article. Like you said the whole Security Council was aware of what was going on and everyone took a piece of the action. And who are the permanent members on the Security Council: France, Russia, UK, US and China. Everyone in the Security Council was aware that the sanctions were being undermined. You even quoted a US diplomat admitting the "don't ask, don't tell" nature of this activity. The Security Council looked the other way while UN officials got kickbacks and people from several Security Council member states including the US aided in laundering the monies and other such illegal activities. Here's the FBI press release detailing a certain New York businessman, Ephraim "Fred" Nadler who had a part in the whole charade and whose whereabouts are currently unknown... cmon Phred we all know it's you.  http://newyork.fbi.gov/dojpressr
Nah, I still think both Saddam and the UN are equally culpable with the UN serving as the enabler. Sanctioning an entire country is fucking stupid (even though the UN called these sanctions "smart sanctions" at the time) and the UN made the entire country suffer for Hussein, which is bullshit. Besides, the sanctions were not meant to get Saddam to comply with Resolution 687 (get rid of the WMDs). The main objective of sanctions was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. The US thought they could sanction the fuck out of Iraq and make people so poor, miserable, sick and hungry that they'd get rise up and overthrow Saddam. All that happened is the people were too weak and sick to revolt and while Saddam continued to consolidate power. The whole notion that if Saddam had given up his WMDs in the 90s the US would have sued to repeal the sanctions is laughable. It was in the interest of the US along with the UN to keep sanctions and the resultant Oil-For-Food Programme going. It was the perfect racket. Everyone was benefiting in their own way, including Saddam (as I mentioned earlier) whether it was via kickbacks, oil, money or power.
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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Oh for fuck sake here have one
http://www.reason.com/news/show/ I'm sure there are many more, this just came up at the top I cannot highlight text in a PDF. Do you know why? And though you seem to think you have some psychic connection to the true motives of the UN, etc. I don't have to believe you. As to US and UN loosening of sanctions (which sanctions were their own to loosen at their own whim and discretion) why were UN officials and foreign nationals from Russia and France prosecuted? Because they were not authorized to personally loosen the sanctions, just as I am not authorized to write you a check from your mother's bank account. There is very little that is simpler than that. Nor does the incompetence of the police in any way excuse the behavior of the criminal. --------------------
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The Tourist Visiting Stranger Registered: 04/11/08 Posts: 145 |
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First of all, what right do you have to announce that my statement was "of course, a lie", telling Virus With Shoes that he is putting forth "lies", or that our statements and his sources are both "bullshit"? None.
I already gave one link, but I'll paste it again, although this guy's hands were probably tied by Saddam too, right? http://www.news.cornell.edu/chro More, just for kicks-- http://www.commondreams.org/view From a community survey by the UN Food and Agricultural Organization in 1995: “Themoral, financial, and political standing of an international community intent on maintaining economic sanctions is challenged by the estimatethat since August, 1990, 567000 children in Iraq have died as aconsequence.” (Zaidi and Fawzi, 1995; Court, 1995). -------------------- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krishnamurti "That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.” Noam Chomsky
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The Tourist Visiting Stranger Registered: 04/11/08 Posts: 145 |
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Everyone knows that the U.N. Security Council are essentially the U.S.' bitch. Just because the sanctions were "implemented by the U.S." doesn't mean the U.S. wasn't almost entirely responsible for them.
Either way though, we are the sole country that brought them up and urged that they be implemented. Do you really think it's only Saddam's fault that hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens died and continued to die as he refused to give up power? Are you seven years old? That's completely one-sided and immature. "Well it's his fault, so keep the sanctions rolling and the body bags flowing." What you are saying is that we thought a reasonable reaction to this dislikeable man's refusal to obey our commands (gee, go figure) was to punish nearly the entire population of Iraq. Because of one man. Give me a fucking break. I suppose I'm just being an "apologist" though, right? Saddam was an evil fucker, but I don't think his position was worth the lives of nearly a million people (we can even call it something unfounded like 200,000 if you prefer). I think that anybody who DOES think it was is utterly insane -------------------- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krishnamurti "That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.” Noam Chomsky
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Luddite I watch Fox News  Registered: 03/23/06 Posts: 2,946 |
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How Saddam 'staged' fake baby funerals
The Iraqi dictator says his country's children are dying in their thousands because of the West's embargoes. John Sweeney, in a TV documentary to be shown tonight, says the figures are bogus. Here he reports from Iraq on his findings Terrorism crisis - Observer special Observer Worldview Sunday June 23, 2002 The Observer The witness against the government of Iraq walked stiffly into the room, metal callipers buckled to heavy medical shoes. They had tortured her two years ago. She is now four. Her father had been suspected of involvement in a plot to kill Saddam Hussein's psychopathic son, Uday. He fled to the north of Iraq, but the secret police, the mukhabarat, came for his wife, still in Baghdad, and tortured her. When she wouldn't break, they tortured 'Anna' in front of her. Her father, 'Ali', is a thick-set Iraqi who worked in Saddam's privileged inner circle. He described what they did to her: 'They had a wooden stick. They would squeeze her feet and ask "Has Daddy called you?" - she understood - "Does Daddy contact you?"' She is a victim of Saddam's brutality, proof that he is prepared to dispense violence against even his country's children. By a cruel irony, her father is also witness to Saddam's efforts to portray those same children as victims of Western sanctions, which he claims have cost hundreds of thousands of young lives. Osama bin Laden justified the 11 September attack on America by referring to a million dead Iraqi children - killed by sanctions. But there is a belief among many Iraqis that Saddam is inventing the numbers. Ali, outraged that Saddam's torturers may have crippled his daughter for life, spoke openly about how the regime's propaganda has faked mass baby funerals - 'evidence' of the 7,000 children under five the regime claims are being killed each month by sanctions. Small coffins, decorated with grisly photographs of dead babies and their ages - 'three days', 'four days', written usefully for the English-speaking media - are paraded through the streets of Baghdad on the roofs of taxis, the procession led by a throng of official mourners. There is only one problem. Because there are not enough dead babies around, the regime prevents parents from burying infants immediately, in the Muslim tradition, to create more powerful propaganda. The taxi drivers do what they are told - as everybody does in Saddam's Iraq - to their evident disgust. Before Ali defected to the north, one friend of his, a taxi driver, explained how it worked: 'I went to Najaf [a town 100 miles south of Baghdad] a couple of days ago. I brought back two bodies of children for one of the mass funerals. The smell was very strong.' Ali continued: 'The taxi driver didn't know how long they'd been in freezers, perhaps six or seven months. The drivers would collect them from the regions and would be informed of when a mass funeral was arranged so they would be ready. Certainly, they would collect bodies of children who had died months before and been held for the mass processions.' A second, Western source, went to visit visited a Baghdad hospital and, when the official Iraqi minder was absent, was taken to the mortuary. There, a doctor showed the source a number of dead babies, lying stacked in the mortuary, waiting for the next official procession. Anna was the youngest witness to child torture by the Iraqi government in an investigation, The Mother of All Ironies, to be broadcast by BBC2's Correspondent today. It found six other adult witnesses in the Kurdish safe haven in the north - the only part of Iraq where people are free to speak. The most chilling witness was one of Saddam's torturers, who was captured spying against the Kurds this year. 'Kamal' told us: 'They would bring the son in front of his parents, who were handcuffed or tied, and would start off with simple methods of torture, such as cigarette burns. Then they started using other methods of torture, more serious ones. 'They would tell the father that they'd slaughter his son, and they'd bring a bayonet out, and if the parents didn't confess they'd kill the child. 'The interrogator has the right to kill the child, or perform any other butchery, whatever's necessary.' And then Kamal chuckled. It is an absolute of the government of Iraq - and others - that thousands of Iraqi children are dying every month because of sanctions. We managed to get a cameraman to accompany a fact-finding trip into Iraq this year by the Great Britain-Iraq Society, led by its chairman, Labour MP George Galloway. At the start of the trip Galloway, in Iraq for the ninth time in two-and-a-half years, said: 'Every six minutes an Iraqi child will have died under the embargo. That's every six minutes of every day, of every night, every year for 12 years.' In 1999 Unicef, in co-operation with the Iraqi government, made a retrospective projection of 500,000 excess child deaths in the 1990s. The projection is open to question. It was based on data from within a regime that tortures children with impunity. All but one of the researchers used by Unicef were employees of the Ministry of Health, according to the Lancet. The dead babies are blamed by Saddam's regime on cancers and birth defects which first appeared in 1991 and were, it says, caused by depleted uranium weapons. While no one should underestimate the lethality of these weapons and the stupidity of the US military machine, the claim does not make radiological sense. According to Dr Nick Plowman, head of clinical oncology at St Bartholomew's Hospital, London, the claim 'is ridiculous. It flies in the face of everything learnt from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.' Cancers do not develop overnight. Bombs that fell in 1991 could not have caused cancers or birth defects in that year. Fast leukaemias might occur in four or five years, heavy tumours around now, said Plowman. Richard Guthrie, a chemical weapons researcher at Sussex University, said: 'It's much more likely to be chemical weapons. There are serious clusters of cancers in the south of Iraq near Basra. In the late Eighties, Basra was almost taken by Iranian human-wave offensives, and Saddam stopped these by dropping chemical weapons on them and, by accident, on his own people. ? John Sweeney's report will be shown in Correspondent on BBC2 at 7.15pm today http://observer.guardian.co.uk/w -------------------- http://www.theamericanright.com/ http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446 http://www.climatedepot.com   
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The Tourist Visiting Stranger Registered: 04/11/08 Posts: 145 |
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By the way, when Madeline Albright, someone who had a vested interest in hiding/ downplaying/ refuting the death toll in Iraq, gave her famous Stalin-esque response to a reporter's question that contained estimates, she didn't even object to the number---
Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million children have died (as a result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." -------------------- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Jiddu Krishnamurti "That's a marvelous structural technique of propaganda... It is only in folk tales, children's stories, and the journals of intellectual opinion that power is used wisely and well to destroy evil. The real world teaches very different lessons, and it takes willful and dedicated ignorance to fail to perceive them.” Noam Chomsky
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Luddite I watch Fox News Registered: 03/23/06 Posts: 2,946 |
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Dutch arrest in Iraq genocide case
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORL AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CNN) -- A 62-year-old Dutchman will be charged for war crimes and as an accomplice to genocide for supplying lethal chemicals to Saddam Hussein's regime, prosecutors said Tuesday. Wim de Bruin of the national prosecutor's office said the man, who was arrested in Amsterdam on Monday, had been under investigation since the end of last year. "The man is suspected of delivering thousands of tons of raw materials for chemical weapons to the former regime in Baghdad between 1984 and 1988," a prosecution statement said. The materials are suspected of being used in the 1988 chemical attack on a Kurdish town that killed an estimated 5,000 civilians. The suspect, chemicals dealer Frans van Anraat, had been arrested in Milan, Italy at the request of the U.S. government in 1989, prosecutors said. He fled to Iraq after being released and remained there until 2003. After the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, van Anraat returned to the Netherlands via Syria. In a 2003 interview with Dutch television program Netwerk, van Anraat said he had shipped materials to Iraq but denied any wrongdoing, The Associated Press reported. "This was not my main business, this was something I did in passing," AP quoted him as saying. "Somewhere once back then, I got the request whether I could deliver certain products to them, which they needed," he said. "And because I had a very good relationship with the (Iraqi) Oil Ministry, and that's where the request came from, I tried to see if I could do it. And that was successful and we did deliver some materials." Among the chemicals he is alleged to have shipped is thiodyglycol, which can be used in the production of mustard gas. It is alleged to be the lethal chemical that was used in the 1988 chemical attack on the Kurdish town of Halabja that killed an estimated 5,000 people. Anraat "knew the destination and ultimate purpose of the materials he was shipping," prosecutors said. Van Anraat is alleged to have shipped the chemicals on a route via the United States and Europe to Iraq. Authorities in the United States, Belgium, Germany, Italy and Switzerland contributed to the investigation. Van Anraat is expected to be brought before a court in the Dutch town of Arnhem later this week. http://cnn.worldnews.printthis.c --------------------------- And before another America basher makes the false accusation again that the USA supplied most of the arms to Saddam Hussein see: http://projects.sipri.se/armstra Top three suppliers of arms to Saddam Hussein, 1973 - 2002 USSR: 57% * France: 13% * China: 12% Then, in order of importance: * Czechoslovakia: 7% * Poland: 4% * Brazil: 2% * Egypt: 1% * Romania: 1% * Denmark: 1% * Libya: 1% USA's sales -- 1 percent. None provided before or after the Iraq-Iran war. Syria hiding Iraq WMDs http://www.wnd.com/news/article. -------------------- http://www.theamericanright.com/ http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446 http://www.climatedepot.com
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Luddite I watch Fox News Registered: 03/23/06 Posts: 2,946 |
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Log in to view attachment
I uploaded Trnd_Ind_IRQ_Imps_73-02.pdf to this post since the link is dead.
-------------------- http://www.theamericanright.com/ http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446 http://www.climatedepot.com
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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There's a whole thread about this crap.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ And both of your links are total bullshit. Further, it is a lie to say that anyone other than Saddam Hussein is responsible for the sanctions. --------------------
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Virus_with_Shoes Pastor of Muppets Registered: 01/25/07 Posts: 3,707 Loc: Zuid-Holland, Ne |
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You should be able to highlight whatever you need and copy/paste it. Are you using Adobe Acrobat to view your PDFs?
Two can play that game. Nah, YOUR link is bullshit.  Not very constructive is it? I think we've reached one of those agree to disagree moments.
--------------------
Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (04/20/08 07:28 PM)
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 10 years, 4 months |
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No. I did before but it somehow got corrupted so I switched to the firefox one. In either case, though, the cursor was that little hand and there seems to be no way to highlight text.
Yeah, we're probably gonna have a few of those. --------------------
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Hamas executes more people publicly...... ( 1 2 3 4 5 all ) |
 starfire_xes |
3,823 | 97 | 08/31/14 07:14 PM by zappaisgod |
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Israel responds to Gaza/Hamas with deadly air raids ( 1 2 3 4 ... 19 20 ) |
KillerPicklez |
16,687 | 385 | 01/07/09 09:14 PM by Phred |
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Interesting perspective on the Israeli Palestinian conflict ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all ) |
 GazzBut |
10,436 | 111 | 07/23/14 04:07 PM by GazzBut |
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Hamas overruns Fatah positions in Gaza |  The_Red_Crayon |
592 | 3 | 06/15/07 09:35 PM by lonestar2004 |
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Hamas - a non soundbyte derived perspective |  somebodyelse |
402 | 2 | 06/28/03 04:41 AM by downforpot |
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Israel to liquidate Hamas. ( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all ) |
shakta |
14,933 | 235 | 08/30/03 01:04 PM by Xlea321 |
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