Hamas - Political Discussion

**The_Red_Crayon** · 04/11/08 01:47 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Im pretty knowledgeable on this, what exactly are you tring to find out because your post is a bit vague.

**rexmundi** · 04/11/08 02:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Well I wasn't looking for any specific info, but I've been doing a LOT of reading about the Israeli occupation and the Hamas in general. After this course and all the reading I've done I would say I have an ok knowledge of this stuff, but I am by no means an expert.

If you were writing a paper about the Hamas what would you write about? Or if you were writing about the occupation what would you write about?

I guess I'm just looking for some guidance/ideas. Not trying to get someone else do all the work.

Actually, the more research I do, the more I find a source of contention is the Palestinian state. Whether it existed before Israel or not, whether they have a claim or not etc. The Hamas call for a return to the 1967 borders, but their charter doesn't recognize Israel as a state and envisions a muslim govt over the whole territory with jews and muslims and christians under the same islamic republic. They do a lot of talking about palestinian nationalism and stuff, claiming they are a liberation organization. Maybe I could just look at the claim to a palestinian state.

Given the size of these posts just wondering what to write about it seems I'll have no trouble meeting the length requirements.:D

**rexmundi** · 04/11/08 02:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

One more thing, the US State department says that they are funded by Iran.

Now I know that Iran sponsers terrorism against Israel, but they are Shia and the Hamas are Sunni. I guess they would still be sponsered b/c of their activities against Israel, but Iran is more notorious for suporting Shia factions in arab countries like the Hezbollah. I am reading too into this? I got the impression that Palestinians aren't necessarily well liked in Iran. Arabs without a state being the attitude.

**The Tourist** · 04/11/08 03:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Try something to do with this perspective...

By the state department's definition of terrorism, the U.S. is currently committing acts of terrorism in the Middle East. Isreal has very much been committing terrorist actions involving Palestine for decades. Isreal's attacks on Hamas and the Palestinians (plus their food/ medicine/ trade blockades in Palestine) are nothing more than aggression and retaliation. It is insanity.
I'm not sure what the length of time this refers to is, but statistically (for the past 6 months/8 months/ year, I'm not sure) for every dead Isreali civilian there have been 100 dead Palestinians.
We have a terrible, terrible tendancy to only associate "terrorism" with organizations who proclaim themselves as violent and not with established ountries like Isreal, UK, U.S. etc. God forbid we actually admit that WE (THE U.S.A.!) are terrorists.

**Seuss** · 04/11/08 04:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

> By the state department's definition of terrorism, the U.S. is currently committing acts of terrorism in the Middle East.

Bzzt. Try again.

The definition of terrorism preferred by the US State Department, is: "Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

**zappaisgod** · 04/11/08 04:52 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Well, you might narrow down your focus to highlight just exactly the differences between Sunni and Shia and how that gets overcome when there is a common enemy.

**rexmundi** · 04/11/08 05:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah pan-Islamism takes precedent over Sunni/Shia conflicts when it comes to this stuff.

The Hamas have said that suicide bombers are the F-16s of Palestine.

Everything I've read about the Hamas indicates that they put far more resources into social services than terrorism, but their policy of terrorism has incurred all kinds of costly sanctions. They are so popular it seems if they renounced terrorism they might be considered a legitimate government.

Of course, if they did that, they might lose some of the lucrative funding they're getting elsewhere. It would be hard for them to just change their rhetoric on a dime like that, and I'm doubtful that Israel would just stop treating them like garbage, but their popularity among Palestinians seems to stem from their social services, not their suicide attacks on Israeli civilians.

**Penguarky Tunguin** · 04/11/08 05:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I wrote a paper on Hamas last semester for my Modern Middle East class. I talked about how Hamas runs its organization as both a civil outreach program as well as sponsoring terrorist activities.

I used these books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_Q_vAAAACAAJ&dq=inauthor:Zaki+inauthor:Chehab&ei=G9n_R-aiI4jijgH07o2TDA

and

http://books.google.com/books?id=CG-AjU3rraQC&pg=PP1&dq=Hamas&ei=j9n_R9nDDpXEigHrnJiRDA&sig=y8j3hXkEaUPfNldugCsoMuyNitM

I also contrasted how the West and Middle East label Hamas' goals.

I got an A on the paper. :smirk:

**Luddite** · 04/11/08 08:37 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Here's some good links.

http://www.masada2000.org/

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

http://www.justifythis.blogspot.com/

**rexmundi** · 04/11/08 11:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You guys fucking rock :thumbup:

Penguarky did you use Reuven Paz as a source? He's a name I keep running into, but haven't actually gotten around to yet.

Your topic is really close to what I've been trying to get at, although I might get more into the occupation and partition of Palestine, and the growth of Palestinian nationalism, and how the Hamas promote nationalism (and terrorism) through their social services.

Off topic, but last year I wrote a big paper about the Doctrine of Fascism and Mussolini's fascists. The similarities are striking, and when paired with the vehement anti-jew rhetoric it's no wonder the west distrusts them. Also I think the muslim brotherhood had ties with Nazi Germany. busy busy busy.

**Prisoner#1** · 04/12/08 08:45 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Seuss said:

> By the state department's definition of terrorism, the U.S. is currently committing acts of terrorism in the Middle East.

Bzzt. Try again.

The definition of terrorism preferred by the US State Department, is: "Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

blackwater anyone?

**Luddite** · 04/12/08 10:02 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Tourist is the kind of muslim that joins forums like this.
http://www.geocities.com/milkmandan2003/TalibanOnline1.html

Also see
Why young Muslims line up to die
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html

http://www.jihadchat.com/index.php?act=idx

http://www.apostatesofislam.com

http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/

http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.activistchat.com

http://islam-watch.org/CommunityServer/forums/default.aspx

http://islam-watch.org

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/toc.html

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/quotes1.html#terrorism

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm

**Minstrel** · 04/12/08 01:05 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

rexmundi said:

One more thing, the US State department says that they are funded by Iran.

And we know America is always telling the truth about the counties they are about to take over.

Oh, btw, Iran has WMDs(!)

**johnm214** · 04/12/08 03:01 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Prisoner#1 said:

Seuss said:

> By the state department's definition of terrorism, the U.S. is currently committing acts of terrorism in the Middle East.

Bzzt. Try again.

The definition of terrorism preferred by the US State Department, is: "Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

blackwater anyone?

lol, that was my thought as well, but I guess you couldn't really differentiate them from the armed forces, as tehy serve at their behest, and I don't know that they meet the definitions elsewhere, such as deliberate violence against noncombatant targets intended to influence.

At most any such actions are not part of their known purpose and are mistakes or rogue agents' decisions.

**Virus_with_Shoes** · 04/12/08 03:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Prisoner#1 said:

Seuss said:

> By the state department's definition of terrorism, the U.S. is currently committing acts of terrorism in the Middle East.

Bzzt. Try again.

The definition of terrorism preferred by the US State Department, is: "Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

blackwater anyone?

Took the words right out of my mouth...err...keyboard.

**Prisoner#1** · 04/12/08 08:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

blackwater also represents the US as a security firm overseas

**The Tourist** · 04/13/08 03:52 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

What do you call the systematic and repeated bombing of Iraq and its infrastructural sites throughout nearly all of the 1990's? This was to manifest and display our opposition to the Hussein regime, using civilian lives as tools. Over 500,000 of them, to be specific. We absolutely destroyed their country, and the people suffered indescribably. Iraq went from being one of the fastest-advancing and most infrastructurally advanced Asian/ Middle Eastern countries, to one of the last, with the second highest child mortality rate in the world outside of Africa.

If this isn't terrorism, we can move upwards on the scale of evil and just call it plain old murder. Or how about genocide?

**Seuss** · 04/13/08 05:12 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

> If this isn't terrorism, we can move upwards on the scale of evil and just call it plain old murder. Or how about genocide?

Somebody get this kid a dictionary, quick! :rolleyes:

**Prisoner#1** · 04/13/08 11:33 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The Tourist said:

What do you call the systematic and repeated bombing of Iraq and its infrastructural sites throughout nearly all of the 1990's?

a good start at population control, problem is we arent
hitting enough populated areas like london or DC

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